Closing Letters Properly, Feeding Finicky Visitors, Blinding Fellow Drivers, and More

Nick: Do you sign letters for other people? Do you hog pool chairs on cruise ships? Do you blow bubbles on strangers? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Oh, I'm back on the other side.

Nick: Yup! It's now your turn. So for today's amuse bouche, Leah, you and Dustin have just gone to a dinner party.

Leah: How lovely!

Nick: Right? And so you need to send what's known as a bread-and-butter letter. Do you know what this is?

Leah: I feel like I've heard the reference.

Nick: Yes. And that's not what this amuse bouche is about, but just wanted to know, like, have you heard this term?

Leah: Right. That's like a thank you letter for having us.

Nick: Exactly. Yes. And I was looking into the origins of this. It feels like the idea is that bread and butter are sort of like the basic base units of hospitality. And so this is to thank them for that hospitality. So you need to send one of these. And so the question is: Who writes it and who signs it?

Leah: I'm gonna have multiple answers on this.

Nick: Okay, bring it.

Leah: Let me do all the answers before you tell me how they're all wrong.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I would guess that who writes it was who was the primary person who was invited.

Nick: Okay. Interesting.

Leah: Like, the closer of the friends, you know what I mean? Like, or whoever's work it was through. Historically speaking, I feel like the women are writing it, because we do all of the unpaid labor.

Nick: [laughs] Uh-huh. Very astute.

Leah: I will say in our house, I do it because I have the better handwriting of the two of us.

Nick: Oh, isn't that an interesting factor? Okay. That was not something I was considering. Hmm.

Leah: And, like, if it's an email, it's up for grabs who's gonna write it. But if it's a handwritten, I'm writing it.

Nick: Okay?

Leah: And we both sign.

Nick: Okay. And so you're, like, handwriting the note, and then you write your name, and then Dustin takes a pen and writes his name? Or are you just writing Dustin's name?

Leah: He takes a pen and writes his name. I point to him where he has to write it.

Nick: Oh, interesting. Okay.

Leah: That's how we do it.

Nick: Okay. So because this is a letter, the person that writes the letter signs their own name. And it's a bit of a twist that you have Dustin come in and, like, just put his name on the piece of paper, because I think so often what happens is you would write the letter and you would sign his name for him.

Leah: No, he's a part of it, too, so he has to sign his own name.

Nick: Okay, interesting.

Leah: I do sign often. I'll be honest here, I will often sign the dog's names. And I'm sure this is gonna shock a lot of people: They're not signing it. I'm signing it and drawing a paw print.

Nick: I mean, funny you should mention it, Judith Martin, Miss Manners, actually specifically has addressed this, and she says quote, "The family pet is not listed at all. He is expected to handle his own social responsibilities."

Leah: [laughs] Well, mine are—mine are girls. So I guess ...

Nick: Okay, well maybe that's a loophole then.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But what's interesting is that you're having Dustin actually put pen to paper. I think so often, and why I wanted to talk about this, is that I have received letters from couples where somebody signs both names. And that is improper. You do not sign another adult's name on a letter like this. What you should do is reference them in the letter. So you would say, "Thank you so much for the dinner party last night. Dustin and I had such a lovely time. We both enjoyed ourselves immensely. Thank you so much, et cetera, et cetera. Best wishes, Leah." And you would not write Dustin's name. Now having him put pen to paper is sort of an interesting twist. The traditional etiquette books have never contemplated this.

Leah: [laughs] I love that about me.

Nick: But I think actually, it's a very modern take. I mean, because the point of this letter is we want to express our sincere feelings about something. And so I guess the question is: Is that happening by virtue of Dustin signing his own name to a letter that you wrote? Like, are we achieving that?

Leah: I think so, because I write "we." What I do is I write it out on a piece of paper that's not the card. I go, "What do you think about this?"

Nick: Oh, we do a test run. Oh, and we have him approve it?

Leah: Yeah, is this what we're trying to say?

Nick: Oh, wow! Okay.

Leah: And then we write it, I sign it, and then I tell him where to sign it. One time he signed it—this is ridiculous. Talk about couples fighting about things. We very rarely fight.

Nick: But ...

Leah: But one of the biggest fights we got in was because he signed something not where I wanted him to sign it after I'd spent all this time doing this thing that I thought we were doing together. And then he just, like, went off on his own thing. And I lost my—I must've been going through something because now I would just laugh, but ...

Nick: This is like a card you wanted him to sign in, like, the bottom right corner and, like, he didn't?

Leah: Yeah, because I wrote "Leah and." It also was like one of these things I had so much trouble writing because it was—I don't know. And we'd be like—and then he just—oh, in a random place that had nothing to do with anything. And when I tell you I lost my mind ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay, well all of this could have been avoided if you just did it the traditional way.

Leah: I don't like the traditional way. It's "we," and then he signs his name.

Nick: Okay, interesting. Now let's talk about cards briefly, because cards are considered communal. And so it is okay to sign another adult's name on those. So that's like your Christmas card, your birthday card, your greeting card. So the question for those is: If you were signing for Dustin, which you would be allowed to do, whose name goes first?

Leah: I just wouldn't sign for him. I don't like the way it looks.

Nick: Okay. Like, visually it just doesn't feel right?

Leah: Yeah, it's two different names of two different people. I want the font to be different.

Nick: Oh, interesting! I—you are making this so difficult, Leah, because what you're supposed to be is just going along with this. You have just created this entirely different method of doing things, and you are really messing up the segment. I just want our listeners to know that this is not what I had planned in my mind for how this was gonna go.

Leah: [laughs] I'm sorry. I just can't.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: At least have the decency if you're gonna sign both names to put the—it in your other hand for the second name so it looks like it's from somebody else.

Nick: Oh, I see. You—if you're right-handed, you should write the other name with your left hand?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So you want to trick the recipient into thinking that somebody else signed it.

Leah: You want—at least people think that you passed it around.

Nick: Wow! Okay. Many people do sign Christmas cards on behalf of other adults in the household.

Leah: I know. I get those.

Nick: And so—and so I think let's just talk about the rules. I won't ask you what you should do, because clearly you're the wrong person to ask today about that. So what you should do is you should put the other name first. And so you put your own name last.

Leah: Even though you did the work?

Nick: Yes, that is traditional. And part of it is because there is the "Mr. and Mrs." format—so man's name goes first. Part of it is that, as you mentioned earlier, women have been responsible for all social correspondence. And so that means if they are putting their name second, that the man also goes first. So these two things are actually not mutually exclusive.

Leah: I mean, just saying it out loud, don't you feel horrible about it? You know what I mean? Women, you're doing all the work, but put yourself second.

Nick: Well, there is sort of the etiquette spirit, which is like, oh, we want to let our guests go first before ourselves. So maybe there's a little of that flavor.

Leah: Mm-mmm. That's not where it's coming from.

Nick: [laughs] No. No, it's not. No.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Historically—and maybe even today—etiquette, it's a little sexist.

Leah: Put yourself first, ladies. You did the work.

Nick: Yeah. But I mean, this is traditional that you put your name second if you're writing the letter.

Leah: [laughs] This is—this is how all the amuse-bouches go from now on.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I didn't even know what I was doing was not customary. I thought we were all signing our own names.

Nick: Oh, you didn't realize that maybe something you were doing in the world was not the correct, customary way to do it, Leah?

Leah: No!

Nick: Oh, twist!

Leah: Why would I ever think that everybody signing their own name was abnormal?

Nick: I mean, I don't think "abnormal" is the word I would use, but traditionally—I mean, actually traditionally, you would only write the thank-you note to the hostess. You wouldn't even bother with the man of the house, because they had nothing to do with the dinner party.

Leah: Because they were like, "I'm out working." Also, traditionally, I wouldn't be able to read or write.

Nick: Oh, sure.

Leah: We're just going down a hole here.

Nick: But we've solved all of them, Leah. Like, today, everything is fine.

Leah: Everything is fine now. Everything is fine.

Nick: What are you worried about? So for today, though, at least for the order of names, it really can be whatever you want. I think just decide what you want to do as a household. And Letitia Baldridge—actually, we remember her. She's, like, probably the most pragmatic of all of the etiquette authorities out there. You may remember that she served a strawberry soufflé that fell on the kitchen floor to guests.

Leah: Yes! Oh! And picked it up.

Nick: So that Letitia Baldridge, she actually says that the name order, you can actually do it by putting the name that would be most recognizable to the recipient first. So if, like, you know the people better than your partner, well then just put your name first. Like, that's fine.

Leah: At least that makes sense.

Nick: Some people say you can do it alphabetically. I think you can do whatever you want, just decide and just be consistent. So, like, when I send letters to our listeners and I sign your name—which I do—I write "Nick and Leah," because that's kind of the rhythm that I have in my head for our names. I think "Nick and Leah" sounds better than "Leah and Nick," because I think that little hard consonant before the 'and' is nice. And so that's what I write. And then you're not there for this, so I can do whatever I want. And so that is maybe not traditional, because I'm writing it, so it really should be "Leah and Nick," but it's like poetry. I know the rules, but I'm gonna break them.

Leah: See, we would still get to the same thing with my rules. Your name would go first because you wrote it.

Nick: Yeah, this is true. Yes. I mean, you have arrived at an answer which is perfectly fine.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so that's good.

Leah: I will say sometimes I send letters just from the dogs and don't include Dustin and I's name at all.

Nick: And once again, as a reminder, the dogs are not actually sending those letters to you.

Leah: I feel like the only person who would agree with that would be the soufflé-dropper lady.

Nick: Oh, you think Letitia Baldridge would be on board with you writing letters on behalf of the dog?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Uh ...

Leah: I think she's a rule breaker.

Nick: Ooh. Ah.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I don't know about Tish breaking rules.

Leah: She dropped food on the floor.

Nick: Yeah. And actually, she actually did quite a lot of things in the White House that the president was not thrilled with, and she just, like, did it anyway, which I think is pretty baller to be like, "Oh, I'm just gonna, like, do it anyway, even though the president of the United States doesn't like it." So yeah, I guess she's a little bit of a rebel. She's an etiquette rebel.

Leah: She's a rebel, Nick.

Nick: And she would be on board with your dog correspondent approach.

Leah: [laughs] I think so.

Nick: Huh!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and out on the ocean.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about cruising.

Leah: And we were waiting to do it because I hadn't been on a cruise yet, and now I have.

Nick: Yes. So as you may not know, Leah and I are gonna be on the Queen Mary 2 soon doing our live show on a transatlantic crossing from New York to the UK. And we agreed to do this before either of us had actually ever been on a cruise. And so I recently did a cruise, and so I kind of got my feet wet. And you just came back.

Leah: Yes, I did!

Nick: And so let's talk about the etiquette.

Leah: And also really quick, I just want to say I'm really looking forward to our cruise. I mean, how interesting! Transatlantic!

Nick: Oh, for sure. Oh no, it's gonna be so fun. Also, I don't think we've actually ever spent that much time together that solidly. Like, have we ever spent seven nights together?

Leah: No. Well, the glorious part about a ship, Nick, is that it's very large.

Nick: Well, no, the glorious thing is that Cunard agreed to give us two different rooms. [laughs] Which was not the case for some other cruise lines we were talking to. And so thank goodness.

Leah: It really would have been funny if we were in the same room.

Nick: Oh, "funny" is the word we're gonna use?

Leah: I think "funny" is a good word for it.

Nick: Yeah. No, it definitely would have been interesting to see who did not arrive alive in the UK. [laughs] But no, two different cabins? Delightful?And so I was actually looking at some historical cruise ship stuff in my etiquette library, because Emily Post, she talked a lot about cruising because this was before air travel. I mean, this is how you got to Europe. She wrote her etiquette book in 1922, and the first flight to Europe, I think, wasn't until the '30s. And so it was all about ocean liners for her.

Leah: It's so interesting to think about, because you're like, "Of course, air travel is new."

Nick: Yes. And actually she talks about how generations before her were taking clipper ships to Europe, and how great the modern ocean liner is. And so how interesting! And a couple things caught my eye that she was talking about. One was that she really lamented how these transatlantic crossings were just rife with social climbers, and how gross that was. And I think that's so interesting, because, like, that is not, like, what I think cruising is today, like at all. Another etiquette writer, Llewellyn Miller, she talks about how you used to actually get passenger lists. Like, that was available from the purser. Like, they would just tell you everybody who was on board.

Leah: Wow!

Nick: And she said that you should really review those carefully because, quote, "It is not at all unlikely that a longtime friend or—enemy—may be aboard, and so you want to know what are you in for on this crossing."

Leah: The idea of giving out people's names is ...

Nick: Wild.

Leah: Wild.

Nick: Another thing that I saw from Emily is that she really didn't like when people talked to you or bothered you. And I really felt seen. And she says, quote, "Well-bred people are always courteous, but that does not mean that they establish friendships with any strangers who happen to be placed next to them." And that resonates so hard for me.

Leah: Mmm! Mmm!

Nick: And that is really not how you're wired?

Leah: No, it's not. I think for a while New York sort of drained it out of me.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: But as soon as I left New York, it came back with wild abandon, that I actually ...

Nick: The whole just, like, talking to strangers thing?

Leah: Yes. I am here to make friends.

Nick: Okay. But I just thought it was funny that for Emily, she just liked the idea of, like, being left alone. This was like kind of a time for solitude. She didn't want to be bothered by people that were just looking to climb socially.

Leah: I think probably in my heart, I just have no interest in well-bred people.

Nick: [laughs] That is true.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So that's a little historical background, which I thought was fun. But let's talk about modern sailing, because it is very different today. Like, this is not what it was a hundred years ago.

Leah: I think I have a very specific time period for, like, a transatlantic.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: You know, we're all wearing, like, big hats and fancy outfits. That's probably not gonna happen.

Nick: Well, the Queen Mary 2 actually is a little different than other cruise ships because it's not a cruise ship, it's an ocean liner—which they really want you to know. It's not a cruise ship. And an ocean liner actually is just a different vessel. It's built differently, it has a different shape, it has different construction, it's organized differently. It's built for the transatlantic crossing, so it's built for that weather. And so it is a little different, but it is not the Gilded Age. It's a lot more relaxed on some level.

Leah: That being said, I think we could—and this just popped into my mind right now, just spitballing—get matching Were You Raised By Wolves? parasols.

Nick: Oh, a parasol! I mean, not mad at this idea. I do like staying out of the sun.

Leah: You like staying out of the sun.

Nick: Sure do. Yeah. No, I carry an umbrella in summertime. I don't want UV rays on my skin.

Leah: Just an idea.

Nick: I mean, that's the "sol" in parasol. So let's do it. Okay, I will start manufacturing those immediately. Now there is so much cruise ship etiquette to talk about, and we cannot possibly cover it all in this segment. But I think the most important thing to remember is that we gotta keep it clean. You gotta wash your hands. Your health and safety really does affect everybody else, and we gotta just be mindful of what we're touching, and not, you know, sneezing all over the food and the buffet, and washing our hands before touching tongs and all of that. So that would just be—if there's nothing else, that. Please do that.

Leah: When you were entering the buffet, was there people singing next to the hand sanitizer?

Nick: So on the cruise I went on, I actually did not enjoy the buffet. I only did the dining room experience. I did walk through the buffet just to see what it was, and there were handwashing stations.

Leah: Well, in the one that I went on—and I asked Dustin if this is normal because he, you know, goes on a lot of cruises, and he said all the ones that he's been on have it. When you go into the buffet, there's a hand sanitizer, like, that you have to pass, and there is a person standing there singing about washing your hands.

Nick: Yeah, because it's that important. Now this is not etiquette, but it's just a good idea. You gotta actually wash your hands because hand sanitizer does not kill a lot of things, including norovirus. So you actually do need to actually wash your hands with soap and water to actually be clean. Like, I'll take sanitizer in a pinch but, like, go wash your hands.

Leah: And just don't touch your eyes. As somebody who's had pink eye, just don't touch your eyes.

Nick: Right. So pro tip.

Leah: And I will say, I think the second overall—I mean, obviously we're sharing space with people.

Nick: Yeah, sure are.

Leah: So all of our "other people exist" etiquette rules are kicking in.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: But at the top of that is you're gonna be waiting in a lot of lines.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, to get into a show, to get into the restaurant.

Leah: To get onto the boat, to get off of the boat.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Buffet.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Be polite about it.

Nick: Yeah. People need to be in the right spirit.

Leah: And, like, when I was getting on the boat, I was getting on the boat in a different area because I was with the performers, but all these lines are coming in to go through passports. And, like, at a certain point you get confused. Where am I supposed to stand? And I would just ask people, "Did I just cut you?" Because it's like, if you don't know, just be like, "Hey, were you here?"

Nick: Yeah, I think we just wanna be conscientious.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Another thing on my list is ducks. Do you know about this?

Leah: No.

Nick: So there is a phenomenon that exists in the world in which people take little rubber ducks, like little duckies that you might have in the bath, and they just hide them all over the ship. And then if you find one, you can take it. And this is just like all over the ship. Could be thousands of these little ducks. And so I don't know how this started, I'm not sure why people are doing this. But it is a thing that exists. And so there are some etiquette rules, which are do not put ducks in pools or hot tubs or, like, water. So, like, don't do that. And do not put ducks anywhere near, like, the food. So don't do that. And do not hide ducks in any of the retail stores, because it will look like you're stealing, maybe, like, if you pick up a duck. So don't do that. I think some cruise lines also do not like the duck thing that's happening, and so they discourage it or actually don't allow it. So follow the local rules. But if it is a lawless duck cruise line that you're on, then have at it. But just know that, you know, there are certain places the ducks shouldn't go.

Leah: And you brought up something—you brought up the stores. I don't think in my mind I realized there was, like, so much merchandise being sold on a ship.

Nick: Oh sure.

Leah: But there's definitely, like, a mall area and, like, some hallways you'll walk through where people are giving you flyers for, like, jewelry or, like, an art sale.

Nick: Oh yeah. "Come to the art gallery." Yeah.

Leah: And I think it's very like, "Thank you so much!" But you don't have to get involved. You don't have to buy anything. You can just be polite to people, but you can just keep moving.

Nick: Yes. Don't feel like you have to go to the art auction, and don't feel like you have to buy the products that they used on you at the massage that you just got. There's a lot of upsell opportunities, and you definitely can decline politely.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Don't feel bad about it. Yes. Another thing I just want to mention: the Pier Runner Olympics. Do you know about this?

Leah: No!

Nick: So this is a thing that some people do, which is right before sail away when you're supposed to be back on the boat, some people grab a cocktail, grab their cameras, and go on deck and look at the pier. And as the gangway is being pulled up on the ship, they wait for people who are running down the pier who are gonna miss the ship.

Leah: No!

Nick: And they laugh and they celebrate.

Leah: No!

Nick: And that is rude. You should not celebrate other people's misfortune.

Leah: No!

Nick: Missing the ship is so terrible. And yes, people should be back on time. Yes, there's a lot of reasons why that might not have happened. It is not for you to celebrate that, because if you miss the ship, it is on you to figure out how to catch up with the ship at the next port. And so that's expensive. So let's not celebrate that.

Leah: I didn't know people were celebrating that.

Nick: People do that. Yeah, I don't love that.

Leah: That's so mean! I will say I heard about a comic who missed.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: And, you know, you would then be responsible to fly yourself. You're losing the gig, your stuff is on the boat. So they got somebody in the port with, like, a, you know, those boats in action movies that, like, come up beside ships to, like, zoom them out and caught up, and then they climbed up a ladder. Yes.

Nick: And the cruise ship allowed that to happen?

Leah: Yeah, they allowed it.

Nick: Oh, that's wild!

Leah: Isn't that wild?

Nick: Oh, to just Mission Impossible it?

Leah: Yes, they just Mission Impossible it.

Nick: I mean, wow! Okay. I mean, to be able to pull that together so fast, that's pretty good.

Leah: I assume that the person driving the boat contacted the person driving the ship.

Nick: Sure. I feel like there's more nautical terms we could be using, but yes.

Leah: You get what I'm saying.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I don't think they're driving the ship, but you get what I'm saying.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And they were like, "We're coming. I'm gonna hit you on this side."

Nick: Drop the rope.

Leah: Drop the rope.

Nick: I mean, but I think it's just easier don't miss the ship.

Leah: Easier don't miss the ship. Also, comics.

Nick: Right? Typical. Last thing on my list? The dress code. So there is a dress code. No matter what cruise line you're on, there is some minimum standard that is required. And so it is important to know what it is and then follow it.

Leah: Oh, I didn't—I had no idea.

Nick: Yeah. And it might just be like no wet bathing suits in the buffet. Like, it could be that.

Leah: Well, I don't even need to worry about that one. It's not ...

Nick: Right. But, like, that would be a dress code minimum standard. I did see somebody fighting with a host at a restaurant because they were wearing a bathing suit and wanted to have dinner. And it's sort of like, "No. No, go back to your cabin and change." So I think let's be mindful of that. Also, there are theme nights, and I will say on the cruise I was on, I was, like, a little disappointed that more people did not do the theme. And I wanted them to, if you're gonna be out and about on the ship, like, you knew what the theme was in advance, so just, like, wear white. It was like the theme was white so, like, wear white. I wore white. It's not a great color on me, but I did it. And so I just wanted more people to participate. I was a little disappointed that, like, so many people, like, just didn't.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: You don't agree?

Leah: I mean, you would think because of who I am emotionally that I would be like, "Participate, it's fun!" But I kind of feel like it's your vacation. If you don't want to—if you want to wear the same sweatsuit all five days, have at it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I mean, obviously it's a nice matching sweatsuit.

Nick: Sure. Yes, I guess it is a matching set. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think it's sort of like resort rules apply, restaurant rules apply, which we want to, I think, dress in a way that acknowledges the occasion or the formality of the setting. So yes, I don't know if we necessarily have to dress up for breakfast, but I think, yeah, could we look a little nicer if we're going to the specialty dining steakhouse on board? I kind of want you to.

Leah: Yeah, I see that.

Nick: I'll leave you with a quote from Emily Post about dress codes. She says, quote, "On the deluxe steamers, nearly everyone dressed for dinner, some actually in ball dresses, which is in the worst possible taste, and like all overdressing in public places, indicates that they have no other place to show their finery." So even Emily says, like, you could be overdressed.

Leah: Emily's pretty condescending.

Nick: [laughs] But actually, to be clear, a tuxedo is not overdressed. A tuxedo coat actually is what you would wear.

Leah: I also didn't go to any of the dining rooms. I just did the buffet.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And the gym.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And the spa.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: It was a triangle, and those are the three things that I was hitting.

Nick: Okay. Well, I'm glad you didn't bring your ball gown, because that would just be the worst possible taste.

Leah: That would be the worst possible taste. Although I don't think Emily has seen my matching sweat sets, so she might not have had anything to compare it to. I now have four match—oh no, I have five. I forgot about that one. I have one that has a llama unicorn on it.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And then I have my strawberries one, which you've commented on.

Nick: Yeah. No, very bold choice.

Leah: And then I have the new bright blue one. And then I have the old Adidas one.

Nick: I mean, I can't wait to see them all on the Queen Mary 2.

Leah: That's what I was gonna say. You will see them all on the Queen Mary 2.

Nick: [laughs] Can't wait!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is, quote, "What do you do about out-of-town guests with very narrow food preferences who now find themselves in a major city like New York or Los Angeles where menus are more adventurous and unfamiliar? Is there etiquette guidance for guests who visibly react, grimacing, poking at plates, asking, 'What is that?' even when they've been brought to relatively safe mainstream restaurants? Where is the line between accommodating someone, and everyone else having to contort around one person's limitations?"

Leah: I think there's a little twist on this, because one person's limitations is one thing, a person poking at food and grimacing at it?

Nick: Yeah. Like, are we five? What is happening?

Leah: It's a whole other level.

Nick: Do you need the chicken fingers? Like, what's happening here?

Leah: I don't know if we need to accommodate people that poke at food and make faces.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think as a host, it is nice to select a restaurant that you think your guests will enjoy. So I think that's good. And I think it's okay to do something that might be interesting or different. You know, it doesn't necessarily have to be just like American cuisine. Like, we could do something a little more adventurous, but I think we want to look at the menu to make sure, like, oh, is there gonna be enough options for somebody? I think that's courteous.

Leah: My understanding from this question is that our letter-writer is doing that.

Nick: Yes, absolutely. And there are some people who just cannot be satisfied. Like, no matter where you go, they're just not gonna find something they like. Like, these people exist in the world. We all know them. And so for these people, what do you do?

Leah: And I mean, I almost feel like we could call it out in the beginning and say, "Hey, Chad. You know, you seem to have a very specific palate."

Nick: [laughs] Okay, we can workshop the language on that, but okay, I like where you're going.

Leah: I'm workshopping the whole thing. You know, there's a whole group of people ...

Nick: Who want something other than tater tots tonight. Would this restaurant work for you? Here's the menu.

Leah: I guess we could just say, "Does this menu work for you?"

Nick: I like that. I've done that with people where I'm, like, not sure how adventurous they are. And I'll, like, create a short list of, like, here are two restaurants or here are three restaurants. Here is the link to their websites and their menus. Take a look. Let me know which you like the best. And I kind of just put it on them to pick. That's a little tricky in New York City, because reservations are a blood sport now and are so hard to get that trying to get a reservation at one place is impossible. To actually do three different places at the same time is, like, completely impossible. But I like the idea of giving the choice.

Leah: I also—I mean, there's a lot—there's a difference between people with food limitations because of how they eat or what they eat or what they're allergic to, and people who are, like, flicking food and making grimaces. Like, it's a different thing.

Nick: Yeah, this is not you telling a vegan person, "Hey, we're going to a steakhouse."

Leah: Yeah, that's not what this is.

Nick: This is not that.

Leah: This is not you telling a celiac, "Hey, we're going—only going somewhere with flour."

Nick: Yeah, "we're going to the symphony of pasta tasting menu." Yes.

Leah: That's not what this is. This person is making faces at their food.

Nick: Yeah. So I think for that person, I think we want to go to a place that's relatively broad with what they offer. But yeah, I don't think you're responsible for their happiness.

Leah: I don't think so either, because they seem unhappy.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Like, when I have people come visit me, I ask what their food restrictions are.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: So I know that up top.

Nick: I mean, actually, when people visit me in New York, I actually ask, like, "Oh, what are the cuisines you cannot easily get where you're from?" And I want to actually take them to those places because it's like, yeah, you could probably get Italian in your town, so let's go have Bhutanese cuisine. Let's get some red rice going. Like, you can't get that easily where you're from. So, like, let's have that, maybe.

Leah: I feel like this person would be the opposite. You'd be like, what is the food that you can get where you're from?

Nick: Right. Well, then I think we go to chain restaurants, right? Which I don't wanna have to do but, like, that would definitely be the path of least resistance. That's what it comes down to: How much of a fight do you want to have? And what is this meal about? Is this meal about just enjoying this person's company? In which case okay, the food is incidental. Or is this about, like, a dining experience? Or do we actually not care that much about this person? They're just a plus one or they're an in-law. And you care less about their happiness. Maybe that's a factor.

Leah: I think that that's a part of it.

Nick: Yeah. I think pick a restaurant that you think is broadly appealing, that you look at the menu and you're like, "There's something this person can have." And then I think if they start making faces at dinner, you could say, like, "Oh, I'm so sorry that this restaurant didn't please you."

Leah: Nick's making the disappointed face.

Nick: And then that's what it is. I'm so sorry.

Leah: And then next time you have them pick it, you say, "Hey, I've given it my best. And you continue to be unhappy, so you do it."

Nick: Yeah. "I'm so sorry this grilled chicken and molten chocolate cake combo didn't do it for you."

Leah: Now I want to go to Cheesecake Factory.

Nick: I hear it's great.

Leah: Next time you're here, Nick.

Nick: Oh, is that what we're gonna do? I'm gonna spend one of my meals in Los Angeles at the Cheesecake Factory?

Leah: Now that it's been said out loud, yes. We're either going to The Grove.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: So you get the outdoor mall experience.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: Or the one in Glendale. So you—both of them have really fun fountains that we can look at.

Nick: Wow. What an evening. Quite the date night.

Leah: We could do lunch.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: So you don't have to give up your dinner.

Nick: Oh, okay. Although I feel like the number of calories in that meal are such that it's a full meal.

Leah: You can get something smaller.

Nick: Can I, though?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Can we just have a fika and just have the cheesecake?

Leah: We could do a cheesecake fika.

Nick: Okay, I'm on board with that. We'll go to Cheesecake Factory for a fika. So we'll just have, like, a little pastry, we'll have a little coffee, little catch-up. Okay.

Leah: Maybe I'll go early, have a full lunch. You can come in.

Nick: I'll join you for the fika.

Leah: [laughs] And join me for the fika.

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "For my birthday, my sweet sister gave me a gift card to a favorite store of mine. Sadly, this store just went bankrupt the same week as the gift. The gift card now is not usable. I called the number on the website and they told me that the cost of the gift card could be disputed to the credit card company. This would mean telling my sister that the card is no good and that she can dispute the charge. I think that would make her feel bad, and she would feel like she needed to go out and buy me another gift. If I don't say anything, that just means I'm out the value of the gift card, which I'm okay with, rather than giving my sister bad feelings and work to do. This seems, however, like a wasteful donation to a greedy corporation, but I'm still inclined to keep my mouth shut and let everyone feel good. Thoughts?"

Leah: I totally understand the wanting to not tell them, because you don't want to give them more work.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I feel like in this circumstance I would tell them.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think let's not be a martyr about it. The sister would want to know.

Leah: She would want to know because it's her money.

Nick: Like, hey, I just gave you a gift card and then it went bankrupt. And, like, oh, I would want to know that this happened.

Leah: Yeah. And you can say, "I don't want you to feel like you have to give me anything else. I just want you to know they just went out of business. You can get your money back."

Nick: Yeah, I think if it's said with that spirit, that's good. Which is just, "Here's an FYI. I want you to get your money back. I don't need a replacement gift."

Leah: And I don't think our listener is being a martyr about it. I think they just don't want to give anybody work.

Nick: Right. Which is the right instinct. Like, we do not want to create work for people who give us gifts. This is true, but we're not necessarily doing that. We're not demanding a replacement gift. We're not saying that they have to do anything. We're just saying, if you wanted to, you could get your money back.

Leah: Yes. Which probably they do.

Nick: Yeah. This is about tone. And it's also about thinking just, like, if the role were reversed, what would you want to have happen? And yeah, I'd want to know.

Leah: I'd want to know as well.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Because she—eventually, she's gonna find out that the store is out of business.

Nick: Or she may say, like, "Oh, did you ever get anything with the gift card?" And then you're like, "Oh no, because they went out of business." And then you're like, "Oh, you should have told me." So that's not good.

Leah: No, I think just tell her.

Nick: Just tell her, yeah. So you out there, do you have questions for us? Oh yes, you do! Send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I'm gonna vent, Nick.

Nick: Okay, what has happened?

Leah: You know, it's a real quick one.

Nick: All right.

Leah: And it's been one that's been bothering me for a while, but I was like, this isn't a real vent. But I've decided it is.

Nick: All right, tell me.

Leah: I have a bone to pick with people who are making headlights now.

Nick: Making headlights. The manufacturers of car headlights.

Leah: Yes. And I've decided it is an etiquette vent because it's rude.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: What I think used to be high beams is now people's regular ...

Nick: Beam.

Leah: Yeah. It's their low lights for, like, traffic, cities, fog. And now people, the low beams are so high that you're being blinded. I shouldn't be blinded by your low beams.

Nick: Yeah. No, that is rude.

Leah: It's so rude. And it's happening on so many vehicles. Stop doing it. Why are you doing it?

Nick: Is it happening on your vehicle? Are you part of the problem?

Leah: No.

Nick: Okay. Just want to make sure you're not an etiquette hypocrite.

Leah: I am not an etiquette hypocrite. It's driving me crazy. I checked my lights.

Nick: Okay. All right. I mean, what do we do about this? Do we just need to write sternly-worded letters to all of the car manufacturers of the United States?

Leah: I just wanted to vocalize it. Who knows where it will go from here?

Nick: Okay. Well, it starts today, though. This is a movement.

Leah: I want to know if other people are struggling with this. It's too much.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I drive so infrequently that I don't think I notice.

Leah: It's overwhelming how bright the low lights have gotten.

Nick: Huh! Okay. Well, it starts now, and let's see if we can have this snowball and make some real change in the world.

Leah: So you're blinding everybody else on the road. It's rude and it's unsafe.

Nick: So speaking of rude and unsafe, I would like to vent.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And this is also a quick one. And this happens in my life from time to time, but it just happened again, and I think we need to end it. And I have maybe been accused from time to time of not having whimsy.

Leah: Hmm!

Nick: Hmm. It has maybe been said—or felt perhaps by some. But we gotta do something about people who blow bubbles in public.

Leah: Are you talking about soap bubbles or gum bubbles?

Nick: Soap bubbles. Thank you for clarifying. Yes, soap bubbles. You are in a park, and you are perhaps an adult—or child, who could say? But bubbles are happening. And bubbles are floating through the air, and I am being struck by these bubbles. And now there is soap residue on me and my clothing, and I don't like this. And I think that is rude.

Leah: You know, Nick, I'm all for whimsy. I a hundred percent agree with you on this bubble situation.

Nick: It's gross, right?

Leah: I think it was, like, 2020, and this child was blowing bubbles.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: With, like, what felt like spit. I mean, they were blowing so hard, and then this bubble landed on my face. And I thought, "Never again."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, who knows what was in that bubble?

Leah: Who knows what was in that bubble? And then I started thinking about there's probably people's germs in these bubbles popping on my face.

Nick: I mean, does the soap cancel that out? I don't even want to go down that science road. I just don't want the bubble on me. And I think that's reasonable.

Leah: I think it's very reasonable. In a place like Disney World we're in a park and it's for kids and people like myself. I'm fine with it. I am allowing myself ...

Nick: Oh, the last time this happened was at a Disney park, and I did not care for it there. Am I not allowed to draw the line at bubbles at a Disney park?

Leah: I think Disney Park is fair game. It's a part of the—there's gonna be kids blowing bubbles.

Nick: So that's just enter at your own risk.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Mmm! I feel like you shouldn't get a pass just because it's inside a Disney park.

Leah: If there's ever a place for bubbles, it's Disney World.

Nick: Okay, so it's just I need to wear clothing that can get bubbled.

Leah: Get a face mask.

Nick: Don't wear my suede to Disneyland.

Leah: If you're, like, walking through a park that's for everybody or, like, down a sidewalk and you get bubbled, I don't want to get bubbled to Disney World, but if I get bubbled to Disney World, I ...

Nick: You accept your fate.

Leah: I mean, I came to Disney World.

Nick: That's true. That is on you. I mean, in my life, this is typically happening on the streets of New York City. And I think there is something particularly heinous about a urban bubble.

Leah: [laughs] There is something particularly heinous about a city bubble.

Nick: It's a different category.

Leah: Because it's also getting all the city air on it before it hits you in the face.

Nick: It's sucking in bus exhaust as part of the package.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Right. And so that is a bigger problem. But I just feel like I don't think we should have bubbles at all. I think maybe we should just not have this in the world. And I think what would the world look like if we did not blow bubbles? And could we be okay with that as a society? I think this is an interesting thought experiment.

Leah: I also think this is particularly because we live in cities. We might not be so angry at bubbles if we were, like, in a countryside.

Nick: Would I be angry at bubbles in the countryside? Uh, okay. Yes, if I am strolling down a dirt lane in a meadow on the way to a farmhouse and there's a child blowing bubbles?

Leah: And it's going with the wind. And then the sun is reflecting off the colors, you know, and it has so much space that it just goes out into the meadowlands, you know?

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: It's just that in cities we're on top of each other.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's really just—maybe it's just in cities I don't want unexpected moisture on me, so I don't want a drip from an air conditioner from above. I don't want scaffold juice dripping on me.

Leah: Yes. Yes. I agree.

Nick: I don't want some mysterious moisture landing on me at any point where you don't know the source. And so I feel like bubbles is just part of that. But I think bubbles is one of the most avoidable ones, and that's why it's higher on the list because bubbles are optional. There's no court-ordered bubble.

Leah: No, it's not court-ordered. It's just ...

Nick: Although what an interesting judgment if that was your sentence. You were sentenced to blow bubbles in a public park in New York City.

Leah: For those of you who have not walked down the streets of New York, particularly in the summer, you will be walking, and then you will feel on the top of your head or maybe your shoulder, a wet, thick, heavy drop. And then you have to pray that it was just an air conditioner as you reach up and rub your head and then pull your hand out to look at it.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: It is terrorizing.

Nick: Yeah. No, that feeling of you're like, "Oh, golly, sure hope that was water." And even a drip of water from an air conditioner is not great water. Would not bottle it. Would not serve it.

Leah: It's just so much better than pigeon poo.

Nick: Yes. On the spectrum of things that drop on you, I'll take an air conditioner drop. Okay.

Leah: Although when you get hit by pigeon poo, you think—you tell yourself that's supposed to be good luck.

Nick: I think on the continuum between pigeon poo and air conditioner drop, I think bubble? Kind of in the middle there. So that's my vent. I just want to be on the record. No bubbles around Nick. That's all. That's all I want. Very simple request.

Leah: This is what Nick and I are asking. No more bubbles. And if we could stop with the bright low lights.

Nick: That's it.

Leah: The regular beams.

Nick: We have such simple needs. So just do that, people.

Leah: I think that when people think of Nick and Leah, they think "simple needs."

Nick: Yes. No, very, very simple. Yes.

Leah: Very not asking for a lot.

Nick: No.

Leah: Super casual.

Nick: Very casual.

Leah: Super casual. That's us.

Nick: Very relaxed. Yes. That's our brand, Leah.

Leah: That is our brand, Nick.

Nick: And I love it.

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned there's a whole world of card signing that I have been completely oblivious to. I also learned about these ducks that people are putting all over boats.

Nick: Oh sure. Yeah, the cruise ducks. And I learned that you make Dustin sign his own cards.

Leah: I'm not making him. We are communally creating a thank you.

Nick: Okay. Well thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, I want you to sign up for our newsletter, because I know how many people listen to our show and I know how many people get our newsletter, and I know this number is different. So that means many of you are not getting our newsletter, and that is where a lot of stuff goes that you will not know about unless you get our newsletter. So we want you to be in the loop. Be in the loop. Get in the loop. It's a good loop. So go to our website, sign up for our newsletter, and we'd really appreciate it.

Leah: We would!

Nick: We would! And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: My cordials of kindness actually goes out to Dustin.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: Because as we were talking about the cruise, I've been going through a lot in my personal life, and Dustin flew me out to meet him on a cruise. And I just stayed in my jam jams and my sweats, and I slept and I went to the gym, and I was just—it was so lovely, and I really appreciated it.

Nick: Very nice! And for me, I want to say thank you to this little family-run company in San Francisco that is helping me digitize my family photo archives. I have thousands and thousands of actual photos in boxes and bins and albums. And it's just a big mess. And I have always wanted to digitize them so they could be preserved and that I could actually enjoy them and share them and see them. And I have been saying to myself, like, "Oh, I'll get a scanner. I'll do it." And it's like, I'm never gonna do it. So I found this great family-run company, and they actually came, personally picked up the photos, have taken such good care of the originals—which is always your fear, of course, that something's gonna happen to the originals. They did such a nice job scanning everything so carefully, and they treated the photos like they were their own. And I just want to say thank you to them for showing that care, because, you know, it could always go very badly, this kind of thing. And it's just been so great. So I just want to say thank you to these people. Really appreciate it. And I can't wait to share some of these photos with you, Leah, and with our listeners, because, like, there's some cute photos of me as a child. And fun fact: I was a child once. So I have proof.

Leah: And I did see a few of them, and they were very cute.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, there was a time when I was a wee lad. Yes, I wasn't always this. Contrary to popular belief. So thank you!