Very Special 300th Episode Extravaganza

Nick: It's our 300th episode!

Leah: Which is insane.

Nick: Can you believe we still haven't solved all the world's etiquette problems yet?

Leah: I'm honestly shocked that we still have things to talk about.

Nick: Oh, I'm not. We're never gonna stop saying, "Were you raised by wolves?"

Leah: [howls]

Nick: Let's start this very special episode.

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And here we are, Leah. It is episode 300.

Leah: I honestly—six years?

Nick: Who can say?

Leah: We have been together six years.

Nick: Yeah, but here we are. It is wild.

Leah: I really don't know how it happened. Six years?

Nick: It goes by so fast. Yeah.

Leah: That's a master's degree. We have a master's degree in Nick and Leah.

Nick: We have a child starting first grade.

Leah: [laughs] Oh no!

Nick: But it is wild that we are still here, because I thought we would go for a while. I thought we'd have enough to talk about, but I did not think that we would be here.

Leah: I didn't either. I also was like, I think we'll probably kill each other by year two.

Nick: Well, I think it did help that you moved to LA, and now we mostly do this virtually.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] I think it's the best thing that's ever happened to our relationship, honestly. So pro tip out there, everybody: move to different coasts to keep the relationship alive. [laughs] But yeah, I mean, it is amazing that when we started, we sort of had this kind of fun idea. And it is interesting to see how it's developed, and sort of grown and matured, and how certain things we tried have become, like, regular features of the show and have become things that our listeners really like and say that they like. Amazing that we have listeners who actually tune in and like us. I mean, that's really the most amazing thing of all.

Leah: That's amazing. I don't even know how that happened.

Nick: The personal validation that I get, which is really why I do the show. And so that has really been mind-blowing.

Leah: It's been mind-blowing. I'm so delighted by our listeners, the messages we get. And, like, when people DM me, it's just so wonderful.

Nick: And so we did actually ask all of you recently to sort of let us know, what do you like about us? We want more validation. Say nice things about us. And we heard ...

Leah: I don't think that's what we asked, Nick. We asked what has been the favorite parts of the podcast.

Nick: Oh. I mean, I took that as just say nice things about me.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Is this not the same thing? It's the same thing for me. So some of the things you guys wrote in, many people, a shockingly high number of people say that they enjoy your puns, Leah. That came up quite a bit.

Leah: Which I'm delighted.

Nick: I was very surprised that that is so popular.

Leah: Nick, as we know, has been fighting against it, and slowly, slowly slipping down the pun slope.

Nick: Yeah, I'll get there eventually. And a number of people also clocked this one time you were boarding an airplane and there was a ventriloquist dummy. That is a favorite story.

Leah: I had completely forgotten about that, and I'm so glad that it was brought up.

Nick: How could you forget about an airplane flight with a ventriloquist dummy?

Leah: Because so many strange things happen to me. And I'm glad it was brought back up because I would like to talk about that in my comedy.

Nick: Okay. Some catchphrases that you guys mentioned. Any time you say, "That's wild!" Let's hear you say it.

Leah: Oh, you know, it's so different when you say to say it and then when I'm just in the moment.

Nick: Oh, yeah.

Leah: Let me just think of something. That's wild!

Nick: And people enjoy when I say, "I said good day."

Leah: Yeah, it's very—like, we can see the full suit on, the door closing, the top hat.

Nick: Oh, top hat? How grand!

Leah: Also, a lot of people brought up your theater metaphor, Nick.

Nick: That's true, yeah. I mean, I use it in my own life. I find it incredibly helpful. So yeah, go to that episode if you need a refresher.

Leah: I think it's a very helpful visual.

Nick: Yeah, because it makes you feel better about the world and your place in it, which I think is helpful.

Leah: Well, for me, it helps to have, like, a visual to something I need to do in my brain.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Yeah, it actually gives you a visual for, like, oh, here's the right move here, and here's how I should feel about this.

Leah: I'm walking this person to the lobby and I'm leaving them there.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Isn't that satisfying?

Leah: It is satisfying. I'll read this one just straight out. "I want to say I live for you two saying 'That's rude!' I'm screaming at my phone during some of these stories, and when you keep it simple, 'That's rude,' it's exactly what I need."

Nick: Yeah. Sometimes you don't have to overcomplicate it. It's just rude. Just label it.

Leah: And that's one of my favorite things that we've discussed before. I think this is like a group catharsis, because so many of us every day just feel like just so much unjust rudeness is just out there, and we don't have anybody to be like, "Right? Wasn't that horrible?" And then we as a group, as the Wolves family, get to be like, "Ugh!"

Nick: Yeah. Somebody said, "Thanks for making me feel less alone when I feel frustrated that I don't get a thank-you note. We must all stand in solidarity."

Leah: Nick is here to stand with you.

Nick: I stand with you. Absolutely.

Leah: I like this one, too. "My favorite moment so far can be summed up in two words: fancy ranch." [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] That's a dress code that showed up on an invitation once that we still don't know what that is.

Leah: That was so fun.

Nick: And another nice thing that somebody wrote in, "Your show has brought so much joy, laughter and thoughtful perspective into my life, and I'm deeply grateful. My partner and I even have a weekly Monday night ritual where we cook dinner together while listening to the podcast. We laugh, pause to debate the questions, and then resume to hear your verdict. It's one of our favorite shared traditions."

Leah: I don't know if it's because I'm in perimenopause, but that's absolutely making me cry. That's just so sweet.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's really lovely. I mean, to be part of a tradition, to have created a tradition for people and helps people come together, I mean, that honestly is the most gratifying thing aside from just like the personal validation that this show provides me, that we have actually been able to help people connect with their partners, with their friends, with their communities, over distances. I know a lot of, like, siblings sort of listen to the show and then use that as an occasion to connect and talk. And that's really actually, I think, the most impactful thing for me, that we have created something that helps people connect. Because I think at the end of the day, etiquette is about other people and connection, because if there aren't other people, we don't need etiquette. And so the fact that we've really been able to help people connect is really beautiful.

Leah: It's so beautiful. And the idea that people would be listening to us while having a—making a meal or sharing a meal together?

Nick: I know, that's so romantic!

Leah: Also, a bunch of people have written to me, reached out to me on the DMs, and have said how, like, you know, when you're having a rough week, it's just like a light, fun place because we all get to be friends together. And so we're community with everybody, and that really means so much to me.

Nick: Yeah. No, the fact that we've been able to connect with so many of you is really fun and unexpected. And just bringing it back to episode 300, the fact that we're here and still doing it, still get to do it, that is, I think, the greatest part of this, that you let us do it. We get to do it. It's kind of a privilege.

Leah: It's definitely a privilege. And we really thank you for listening.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm gonna add one more just because we should add this one about Nick.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: "So many wonderful parts of the podcast have become embedded in my core, but one thing that has truly changed the way I express myself is Nick's beautiful and gentle putdown, 'I do not care for that.'"

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, it's a good mantra.

Leah: Beautiful and gentle putdown.

Nick: Well, then let me read this great poem that we got from our listener Bee, superfan Bee. She wrote us a haiku and it's this: "Faux pas averted. We vented. We repented. They did what? Bonkers!"

Leah: Bee! Bee has been with us since the beginning. Bee's come to multiple shows. Bees on Patreon, writes on the regular. I mean ...

Nick: Super fan. So thank you for this great poem. I'm gonna actually print it out and we're gonna frame this. I think this is a nice little episode 300 memento.

Leah: Wolves family.

Nick: Another thing we've been asking you all to send in are the names of the fictional island that we want to send all the rude people to. And so I don't think we've actually ever talked about them. We've been asking for them. We mention them from time to time in passing, but we've never talked about them or decided on the official island name. So I think today we need to decide, Leah. What is the official name for this island?

Leah: Well, can we read the list that we've narrowed it down to?

Nick: We can. And as a reminder, if somebody does something rude and we want to banish them to an island, that is just where we're gonna send the rude people. Like, why should they live in society among us? They can have their own place. And so that place name might be ...

Leah: The Isle of Eww!

Nick: [laughs] I like that.

Leah: That's a good one.

Nick: Or there's Bemruda, which I guess is like Bermuda.

Leah: Yeah, I love it. I like, For Sure Rudestantinople. It's for sure rude mixed with [sings] Istanbul, was Constantinople, now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople. You got it.

Nick: I got it. There's Jerks and Fakos.

Leah: Hilarious.

Nick: That's a good one.

Leah: The Island of Lost Souls, and the sister island, the Isle of Redemption. So I guess you progress.

Nick: I guess if you could.

Leah: Yeah. Like if you repent, you fix your behavior, you take responsibility, you get to move to the Isle of Redemption.

Nick: Yeah. You don't get to come back to the mainland, but at least you get to go to the Isle of Redemption.

Leah: There's two-ply toilet paper on the Isle of Redemption. If you get sent to Rudistan, one-ply toilet paper.

Nick: Yeah. And it's not very soft.

Leah: It's not soft.

Nick: There's also on this list the Isle of Dismay. Or the Isle of Man-ners.

Leah: I love that one. And then William Hanson submitted one.

Nick: Yes. Noted etiquette expert of the UK.

Leah: And I want to say for our listeners, I disagree, but you get why it's funny.

Nick: William Hanson says that the island he would like to send all the rude people to is called Australia.

Leah: Australia.

Nick: So you can direct your comments, listeners, to William Hanson, williamhanson.co.uk. Send your comments there. Do not send those to us. And then last on the list is the one I came up with. I do enjoy it. I believe this island should be called Narcitraz. It's like the narcissists and Alcatraz together. So that gets my vote.

Leah: Nick came up with it and he voted for it.

Nick: Yeah. So I feel like—I don't know, I kind of like that.

Leah: I was like, "We should go through the list," and he's like, "We should just pick mine." [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] I mean, I feel like mine is pretty good.

Leah: I think it's great.

Nick: Okay. Well, Leah, what's your top choice?

Leah: You know how I am, Nick. I could—you know what, I could narrow it down to five, and then people could vote.

Nick: Give me your top three.

Leah: I'll give you Narcitraz.

Nick: Thank you.

Leah: It's hard for me not to pick For Sure Rudestantinople, because I love For Sure Rude.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But then I'm a toss-up between Rudistan and Isle of Eww!

Nick: Okay. We can have four on the list.

Leah: Jerks and Fakos. Not bad though, too.

Nick: That's pretty good. Yeah.

Leah: That's pretty good. How about five? Why can't we do five?

Nick: All right, listeners, weigh in. Let us know what should the official island name be? We'll leave it in your hands.

Leah: We leave it in your hands. We leave it in your very capable hands.

Nick: So for today's episode, we are often asked, what are the questions that really linger? That really stick in your mind? And so Leah and I went through all of the questions that we've ever been asked on this show, and we tried to come up with, like, what are our top 10?

Leah: And there are no particular order except for number one.

Nick: Number one is definitively the most bonkers. That's right. Yes.

Leah: And we both thought of it immediately.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: And that's why it's gonna be number one.

Nick: But these other questions, they all have something to them which really sticks with you.

Leah: So without further ado, here are our top 10 most bonkers etiquette questions.

Nick: Enjoy!

Nick: "I recently had a situation with a family member that I wasn't sure how to respond to. Our family member—let's call her Lisa—contacted us to see if in three weeks she, her teenage daughter and her daughter's friend could come and stay at our house for the weekend. We eagerly said yes, it would be lovely to see them all. Then about 10 days later, she contacted us again and said her husband and younger child would also be joining them, making the guest list increase to five. We agreed that it would be lovely to see everyone and we looked forward to hosting them.

"In the late afternoon of the day they were expected to arrive, I received a call saying that they had stopped in a town about an hour away and would be heading our way shortly. During the phone conversation, I casually asked, 'So how many people are coming? Three or five?' Lisa said, 'Oh, actually, I asked some other friends if they would like to join us, so there are nine of us. But don't worry, the teenagers brought sleeping bags.' I was speechless. I had spent most of the day rearranging beds and furniture to ensure that everyone had a comfortable place to sleep, but was not prepared for four additional guests. Not to mention, the grocery shopping I'd done wasn't sufficient to feed four additional people—especially teenagers. They all arrived and took over our house, staying for four days, eating everything in sight. Plus, four of the people staying in our home were total strangers to us. We have always been welcoming to family and friends staying in our home and go out of our way to make people feel welcome, but I felt completely taken advantage of in this situation. What would have been the best way to handle this?"

Leah: I mean, this could be a Bonkers.

Nick: I mean, this is a Bonkers. What?

Leah: What?

Nick: Nine people?

Leah: From three. Three to nine.

Nick: Three to nine. I mean, that's—that's a big jump.

Leah: They weren't even gonna bring it up.

Nick: No.

Leah: They were on their way, and you called and asked and they were like, "Oh, nine."

Nick: "Oh, by the way."

Leah: "But they have sleeping bags."

Nick: "Oh, it's fine."

Leah: It's like they don't even count.

Nick: Oh, they have sleeping bags. [laughs] I mean, yeah, what do we do with this?

Leah: Well, I think this is one of those situations where we could not be prepared.

Nick: How could you be? This is so shocking.

Leah: This is shocking.

Nick: There is no script in your back pocket for when four strangers in sleeping bags just show up at your house.

Leah: [laughs] I love that on top of it all, they're strangers. "Oh, we brought some teenagers."

Nick: Um, yeah. And, like, oh, that's fine because they have sleeping bags. I love how that just excuses it.

Leah: It actually makes it weirder, because that means that they had a full conversation about how they knew that our letter-writer wasn't prepared with the beds.

Nick: Oh, that's a good point. Oh yeah, it was premeditated. Yeah. It wasn't just like, "Oh, these teenagers, like, showed up in my car on the way and, like, oh, I guess they're with us now." It's like, no, they had time to, like, get sleeping bags.

Leah: And that could have been time when they were calling our letter-writer to be like, "Hey, we picked up these four random children."

Nick: [laughs] Yes.

Leah: Also, I think it's wild. Insult to injury: staying for four days, ate everything in sight.

Nick: Yeah. I don't get the sense that they brought extra groceries or pitched in at all. I'm not getting that vibe.

Leah: I'm not getting that vibe.

Nick: And teenagers, it's true. They—they really—they could really eat you out of house and home.

Leah: I imagine that they actually probably ate parts of the home.

Nick: [laughs] They're just, like, eating the potpourri.

Leah: [laughs] "The soap was so good!"

Nick: All the soy sauce packets in the drawer.

Leah: I mean—I mean, I even eat condiments. You know what I mean? A good relish? For sure. For sure they just cleared you out.

Nick: Yeah. There's like, nothing left. Yeah. All the glue. Yeah. They're like goats. Anything that has glue on it.

Leah: Our poor letter-writer's sitting there after they leave with just, like, pieces of their furniture chewed off.

Nick: [laughs] I guess what I find sort of—I mean, this is so common, though. But what is going on in people's heads where they're like, "Oh, it is totally fine for me to invite other people to your house without asking you." Like, this is happening all over the place. And, like, what is wrong with people?

Leah: I really don't know. Like, I really don't—I do not understand how somebody would think that was okay.

Nick: Because it's not. Full stop. And, like, why are people doing this?

Leah: I even feel guilty when I call somebody and be like, "Hey, so and so is staying with me. I know I was supposed to come. May I bring them?"

Nick: Yeah. I mean ...

Leah: I'm obviously asking. I would never not ask. But then even just to be like, oh, I'm changing—I'm changing the original agreement, I feel a little guilty.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, that can be awkward.

Leah: Totally fine if I don't come. You know what I mean? I totally get that I'm changing it.

Nick: But yeah, just to, like, show up with somebody? I could not imagine!

Leah: Just to show up. And for an overnight?

Nick: For four days? Yeah. I mean, for a dinner party, this is bad. For four days? I mean, that's so bold!

Leah: But they—Nick, they have sleeping bags.

Nick: They have sleeping bags, so it's fine. [laughs] So yes, just to make it very clear, this is rude. Don't do it. So how to handle it?

Leah: I mean, are we saying how to handle it moving forward, or what could we do if somebody calls us that we thought was just coming over with two other people and they're like, "There's seven more?"

Nick: I mean, they're an hour away, so there's nothing we can do at this point. We can't be like, "Turn around."

Leah: [laughs] No. The only thing we can do is, like, close our door and turn all the lights off and be like, "I forgot to mention to you that we moved."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. So I think, you know, you do just need to be a good host and tough it out on some level. I hate that answer, though. I hate that as a host, we're, like, obligated to deal with such an etiquette crime, but that is the most gracious thing.

Leah: It's the most gracious. I mean, there isn't—I don't think it's wrong in any way to be like, "This is sort of overwhelming for me. You've doubled the people. I wasn't ready."

Nick: Yeah. And how could you be? So yeah, I think you have to tough it out. I think after the visit, I think there is an opportunity to say something which is like, "Oh, it was so great seeing you and catching up, but I need to be honest, we were a little surprised for the extra guests. And we felt a little overwhelmed, and it put a lot of stress on our space and our food and our energy. So next time, we would just want to confirm the guest list in advance, if possible."

Leah: It's so hard to wrap my head that somebody would just show up.

Nick: But they had sleeping bags, Leah.

Leah: They did have sleeping bags, you know?

Nick: So, you know, it's fine.

Leah: So I guess it's fine. They could just sleep in the backyard and eat shrubs and berries.

Nick: Yes. Just eat your lawn. Yes.

Leah: Also, can you imagine nine people using your bathroom?

Nick: Um, it's just ...

Leah: It's too much! It's too much.

Nick: Also, a question is: Did they all fit in one car? I mean, this is more people than the Von Trapps.

Leah: [laughs] No, no, no. Gonna start singing. How funny would it be if they showed up and you were like, "Hey, if you're gonna bring this many people. I'm expecting show tunes."

Nick: Well, I expect that we have SATB. I expect there's enough people for all parts, because we're gonna do four part harmony and I expect all the roles to be filled.

Leah: I would have trouble not making jokes constantly to be like, "Oh, I hope you brought a porta-potty. You guys paying for water?"

Nick: And I guess, will there be a next time? I would really think long and hard before we extend invitations to this family member again.

Leah: I would really want them to recognize what they did was out of line.

Nick: Yes, but I don't know if we could trust them again. I don't know if we could trust them to not show up with extra people.

Leah: This is—these are the thoughts that just ran through my head. Not even people. I was like, these people could show up and they'd be like, "You know what? I now have cows. And I brought two of them, their Shetlands with me." And then I thought, but you know what? I would love that. That was all the thoughts, so then I didn't say any of it, but now I just felt like I had to run through what the thoughts were because there was such a long pause.

Nick: But it is true, yeah. If you show up with four extra teenagers, what else might you show up with?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: The mind wanders. Who knows what else you can put in your car?

Leah: But it's not just four teenagers, it's four strangers—teenagers. These aren't relatives. We don't know these people.

Nick: Yes, these are strangers. Yeah.

Leah: It would be slightly different if it was like, "Oh, this is my cousin who I know, and she was in town." You know what I mean? At least then you're like, "I get the context." These are—you've gone out and invited strangers to my home.

Nick: Yeah. And almost 50 percent of the guest lists are strangers at this point.

Leah: Fifty percent is strangers! What are we doing?

Nick: What are we doing? So letter-writer, I'm sorry this happened to you.

Leah: I'm so sorry this happened.

Nick: This is bonkers. And so oh, well.

Leah: And obviously, our letter-writer is so flexible and lovely. They're like, "Oh, it was three and now it's five. No problem."

Nick: That's a big jump from five to nine.

Leah: And now we went to nine.

Nick: We went to nine. Yeah.

Nick: Our next question. This one is good.

Leah: Unbelievable!

Nick: I was actually on the floor when this happened-

Leah: Listeners at home, if you're driving, stop driving, because this is what ... You're going to have to pull over and deep-breathe.

Nick: "I'm a parent and have a sticky situation with another parent in our close friend group. Our children are the same age and often interact with each other at school and neighborhood gatherings. My child often extends invitations to my friend's child, which he happily accepts but doesn't reciprocate. We've come to accept this and are not forcing a friendship that doesn't come naturally. However, my friend's child has an elaborate destination birthday celebration coming up ..." Destination birthday celebration ... "Destination birthday celebration coming up, for which I was asked to co-chaperone and assist with transportation. My child is not invited. I think it was rude for my friend to ask me to attend without my child. I politely declined the invitation by saying I already had plans. However, this isn't the first time a situation like this has come up, and I would like to respond without making an excuse. What should I say next time?"

Leah: Wow!

Nick: I need a moment. I have follow-up questions.

Leah: I wish we could have a full tea with this person.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: A) our letter-writer is very polite.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And I think has ... You don't have to be polite anymore.

Nick: Well, before we get there, Destination Children's Party?

Leah: Unbelievable!

Nick: Does that mean we're going to Chuck E. Cheese, or are we going to St. Barts?

Leah: No ... I feel like it's somewhere in the middle-

Nick: Okay [crosstalk]

Leah: -like the Science Museum in Boston.

Nick: Oh, okay. That's-

Leah: Which is equidistant-

Nick: Between Chuck E. Cheese-

Leah: And St. Barts.

Nick: Fair enough. So, the idea that you would ask someone to chaperone a child's birthday party, where their child was not invited?!

Leah: I can't even take it!! I want to show up on the block and flip some tables!

Nick: How do you ... How do you do that with a straight face? Because they- you know that's rude.

Leah: It's so rude!

Nick: You can't not know that's rude. There's not a world in which you're like, "This is fine."

Leah: Yeah. If I had to guess what that person is telling themself in the head- their head, which I love to try to do-

Nick: Uh-huh. Please?

Leah: -even though we're not supposed to do that.

Nick: Oh, bring it!

Leah: That person's probably like, "You know, my son doesn't want to invite their child ..." They didn't say boy or girl. They made it-

Nick: Right.

Leah: "Doesn't get along with- doesn't want to invite their boy or girl, but I want to keep relations with their family, so I'll just invite the moms, so they all don't feel left out."

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I mean, is that the thought is?

Nick: That's the best-case scenario.

Leah: That's the- But even then, it's RUH-DIC-U-LOUS!

Nick: Yeah. I mean, there's no- I don't think- there's no way to slice it.

Leah: I don't even understand. I feel like this mom is well within her rights ... It would be polite to say, "Hey, I can't go to something that my son's not- or daughter's not invited to."

Nick: Right. I think that's the response; like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I can't chaperone. I can't leave my child, who was not invited, and go to this party."

Leah: "Imagine how my child would feel!"

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I think that's ... You could even say more than that, but that's a fair and balanced-

Nick: Yeah, and I guess one step more opaque, if you wanted to do that, would be like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I can't chaperone. I promised my child I would spend the day with him." The implication is, "If my child were with me this day, I could chaperone; but my child is not coming because you haven't invited him."

Leah: I think that you should clearly point out the difference of inviting someone when you didn't invite their child.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Because, as a mother, that person should understand. "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah; of course she can't go when her kid's not invited. It's an insane thing that I just did."

Nick: Yeah. Although, you aren't supposed to point out people's rudeness.

Leah: No, but in that case, you're not. You're just saying, "Hey, I can't go to something where my kid's not invited."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You're not saying, "I can't go to something that you invited me to that you didn't invite my child to."

Nick: Right.

Leah: You're saying, "Oh, I'm invited; my kid's not; I can't go."

Nick: Yeah, that's it. This is wild.

Leah: Wild!!

Nick: Truly wild. Yeah. I don't you want to be friends with this family.

Leah: Yeah. I feel like with their- it's like a close ... I think this happens a lot where it's a small area.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And everybody's in the same grade.

Nick: Yeah. Also, get along, people! Just invite them to this destination birthday!

Leah: What's ...?!

Nick: What's the big deal?

Leah: There's enough room at the Boston Science Museum for everybody!

Nick: Right, or Chuck E. Cheese, or St. Barts! They're all big.

Leah: They're all big.

Nick: Our next question-

Leah: We may need to take a breather after that. I'm so worked up!

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: This poor mom and her child!

Nick: Yeah, no, it's wild. I mean, this is an etiquette ... What's worse than a crime? This is an etiquette ...

Leah: This is a federal prison.

Nick: This is federal. Yeah. This is not small claims court.

Leah: No.

Nick: No.

Leah: This is federal.

Nick: Yeah. This is that place in Colorado that has no windows. Yeah.

Leah: I also want to tell that kid who didn't get invited, you're the person who's going to grow up to be the next, you know, Bill Gates. Don't worry about it.

Nick: Yeah, you'll be fine.

Leah: You didn't want to go to that party anyway.

Nick: No. That party is garbage.

Leah: Garbage!

Nick: Garbage party. Although, Science Museum is nice.

Nick: "I threw my sister a surprise 65th birthday party. I sent the Facebook party invite, and one of my sister's in laws, a cousin, responded. She said, 'I'll be there.' And so will her partner, and she'll also bring a friend—let's call her Lisa. I had met Lisa in the past and did not care for her. I found her rude and boorish even before we were introduced, which is another bonkers story for another day. Anyway, I politely responded to the cousin and I said, 'I'm sorry, but I have a large invite list already and would like for Lisa not to come as I did not invite her.' The cousin responded that she understood. And I mean, my sister and Lisa were only acquaintances and not even friends.

Nick: "So the party went off without a hitch, and it was a great time. After the party, I told my sister about all this, and she said, 'Huh! Now, that card I received made sense.' Apparently, before the party, my sister had received in the mail an early birthday card that was unsigned and had a fake return address that said, 'Happy birthday. I hope your party is fun.' We came to the conclusion that it was Lisa, as she was the only one I asked not to come, and Lisa was so mad that she was disinvited by that cousin that she doubled down and wanted to get her revenge. Who does that? Ugh! Needless to say, I never invited the cousin to another gathering again."

Leah: Who does that?

Nick: So—so we send an anonymous, passive-aggressive birthday card.

Leah: With a fake mailing address.

Nick: I mean, why do we even put a return address on it? I mean, just leave it off. Like, why are we going to the trouble?

Leah: We're going to the next level by being like, "I'm gonna make a fake address up on top of this."

Nick: [laughs] 123 Any Street, Your Town, USA, 12345.

Leah: I live on I Need A Therapist Drive.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this must have been some party!

Leah: Well, happy birthday to your sister.

Nick: Sure. Yeah. Happy birthday.

Leah: And it does sound like the party was wonderful.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, the party not to be missed.

Leah: And Lisa definitely sounds like somebody you do not want at your party.

Nick: Well also, the idea that, "I found her rude and boorish even before we were introduced, which is another bonkers story for another day." Oh, that day is here. I would like to hear this other bonkers story. [laughs]

Leah: We need this. I know. I was like, I hope we have this story somewhere.

Nick: Like, before we even met, I know you're rude and boorish? Ooh, juicy!

Leah: Very juicy. I already got a visual.

Nick: But it is true. The cousin should not have extended an invitation to Lisa without checking first.

Leah: Yeah. No, this is on the cousin. That was an insane thing for the cousin to do.

Nick: Yeah. So the cousin should have done that. And then I can see how it was very awkward for the cousin to go back to Lisa, which is like, "Oh, PS, you can't come." Although the way our letter writer phrases it, which is, "I would like for Lisa not to come as I did not invite her," that is a very specific way to phrase that.

Leah: Well, it's very direct. "I didn't invite her. I have a limited number of people. She can't come."

Nick: Oh. But the way to say that is, "Unfortunately, the invite list is quite large, and we do not have any room. So sorry."

Leah: I mean, it means the same thing.

Nick: That is very different than, "She was not invited. I would like her not to come."

Leah: Well, she's boorish, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] No, I get why. But, like, oh, to phrase it in that way is like, oh, we're not gonna sugarcoat it at all.

Leah: I love this letter-writer. You know where you stand.

Nick: You definitely know where you stand. And then Lisa's like, "Oh, I'll show them!"

Leah: Fake card in the mail on its way.

Nick: "Hope your party is fun." [laughs] Oh, that's so great.

Leah: I'm so glad that the cousin got disinvited moving forward, because I feel like the cousin is just gonna be a troublemaker.

Nick: Yes. I guess the question is: did the cousin learn their lesson, or is the cousin likely to commit similar faux pas in the future? I guess if we're cutting them off, we don't think we can trust them with future invitations.

Leah: Yeah, I'm sure this—this is all a part of a much bigger tapestry.

Nick: Yes. Oh, what a tangled web we weave.

Leah: I also feel like the cousin must have given Lisa our sister's mailing address.

Nick: Yes. Definitely, Lisa knows where you live, which is a bit of a concern.

Leah: I mean, it's not a concern. Lisa's gonna send fake cards. She's not showing up.

Nick: That's true. Oh, she's too cowardly to come and ruin your party.

Leah: She's not gonna come show up. She's gonna send you a birthday card that's not signed with a fake address.

Nick: "Hope your party was fun!"

Leah: It's bonkers!

Nick: This is totally bonkers.

Nick: The next thing I want to address briefly is a recent question we had. So Leah, you'll recall we had a question about a birthday party where somebody sent a birthday card with a fake return address.

Leah: Oh, yes. Yes!

Nick: Yes. And this was bonkers, but we were so in shock, we missed a key detail.

Leah: Oh, did we?

Nick: We did. And I think, you know, we often say, like, "Oh, I'm in shock." And our audience may think, like, "Oh, are they really?" No, we really are. We really are in shock because the detail we missed—I was so numb. I was so numb, and I don't know how I missed this. The detail we missed, Leah, was that this birthday party was a surprise birthday party, and the idea of sending a card in the mail was to ruin the surprise.

Leah: No!

Nick: I totally missed that.

Leah: No!

Nick: Isn't that taking it to such a new level?

Leah: I'm holding my eyeballs.

Nick: Isn't that wild?

Leah: I—that—I mean.

Nick: [laughs] Isn't that incredible that Lisa was so mad she wasn't invited that she sent the birthday card, which was like, "Happy birthday, hope your party is fun" in advance of the party?

Leah: This diabolical ...

Nick: That is so diabolical! I mean, on some level, slow clap.

Leah: I can't believe we missed it!

Nick: We totally—well, because we were so in shock about all the other insane things that were happening.

Leah: It was a lot of insane at the same time.

Nick: So yeah, I just totally—I totally—so thank you, listeners. A lot of listeners saw that and was like, "You guys missed, like, the most horrible thing of all." So yeah, it was a surprise birthday party, and the surprise was gonna be ruined by the card saying there was a party. Wow!

Leah: Wow! Wow!

Nick: I know. Isn't that incredible? Yeah. We were so numb. We were so numb.

Leah: We were numb, Nick. We were numb.

Nick: [laughs] We just missed it. We just, like, totally missed it. So yeah, I mean, that really just took it—I mean, wow. I mean, that—it was already bonkers, and this just, like—it just—there is—is there a word for a new level of bonkers?

Leah: You know what I was just thinking of for a new level?

Nick: Hmm?

Leah: Because I froze when you were saying that. And then I put my hands to my eyes, since our listeners can't see me, and I felt frozen like petrified wood.

Nick: Mmm!

Leah: So it's like so bonkers that you turn into petrified wood.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: But that's not catchy. But that's the visual.

Nick: Well, being petrified, maybe that's what it is.

Leah: Because bonkers is like I'm exploding, but then it's like my brain exploded, but then I froze because I was like, "What?"

Nick: So thank you, listeners, for pointing this out.

Leah: I'm so glad people pointed it out.

Nick: Yeah. Really missed it. Really missed that detail.

Leah: I wish we could find this person.

Nick: Yeah. Now this is a house call. Now—now we actually have to show up.

Leah: It's almost so—you know, when we want to do a house call and be like, "What were you thinking?" Like, we are getting a very clear picture of ...

Nick: Oh, we know what you were thinking.

Leah: We get it a hundred percent. So this is more of a person where it's not a house call. It's like we are undercover, and we're parked down the block.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Eating food, and then we, like, follow them around to take notes on how they're living their whole life.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So we're in an unmarked van.

Leah: Yeah, we are. [laughs]

Nick: Okay. All right, I'm down. Let's do it.

Leah: I mean, that's what that feels like.

Nick: Oh, this feels bonkers. That's what this feels like. I feel petrified.

Leah: [laughs] Oh, thank you, listeners, for catching it!

Nick: "I was at a wedding recently. It was outdoors and fairly casual. When we arrived, we were asked to complete an envelope with our name and address, I'm assuming, for thank-you notes. Is this a common practice now? Also, at the reception, the bride had for sale a table full of the goat milk soap she makes. Am I wrong thinking this was a bit tacky? Also, the bars were $4 more expensive than other goat milk bars I've seen at farmer's markets."

Leah: You're kidding.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Goat pun! Goat pun! Goat pun!

Nick: Um, wow.

Leah: I hope somebody said that to her. "You're kidding." And then you go, "Because kids are baby goats." Come on!

Nick: I mean, that's pretty good. I'll give that to you. Yeah.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: Yeah. All right, well, let's just talk about the envelopes first, shall we?

Leah: For me, the envelopes pale in comparison to the second part.

Nick: Yeah, that's why I just want to start with that. Because there's more to say about the soap. Yeah, the envelopes, I am assuming it is for thank-you notes. I am assuming that's what that is. And it's not just like, "Oh, please put cold, hard cash in this for us."

Leah: No, because then why would you put your address?

Nick: Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. No, good point. Okay, yeah, yeah. So this is for thank-you notes.

Leah: "Put the cash in, and we're gonna mail it back to you."

Nick: Yeah. No, that's definitely not happening at this wedding. Now what I find actually funny about this is that for me, when I'm writing thank-you notes, writing the envelope is, like, not the burden. That is actually not the time-consuming thing for me. I don't actually find that to be problematic or difficult or, like, the bulk of the time and effort. So the idea, like, oh, we're taking a shortcut there, like, to my mind, like, that doesn't really compute.

Leah: Well, my first thought was, oh, maybe they wanna make sure they have everybody's address. But obviously they did. They sent out the invitation.

Nick: Yes. Or if you really want people's addresses, let's have a book which is like, "Please sign in and make sure we have your current address." The act of actually, like, addressing the envelope? It's kind of like when you're at the dentist and they give you a postcard to fill out. Does your dentist do this?

Leah: No, but I have been in places where that happens.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, my dentist—I guess it's still 1985. And they give you a postcard, and you fill it out with your address and then they mail it to you, like, a month before your appointment. And so you get your postcard. And so this is what this feels like. And so if I get a letter in the mail and, like, it's in my handwriting? I don't know, I don't love this.

Leah: I really like the idea of what you said, that they could just have a sign-in book and say, "Please sign in and have your most updated address."

Nick: Or how many people do you not have addresses for, right? Because, like, you did send invitations. Unless you sent all these wedding invitations via text.

Leah: Or maybe they did an email.

Nick: Right. But then the question is like, oh, now you want to send handwritten thank-you notes?

Leah: Well, Nick, wouldn't you be happy if you got the handwritten thank-you note?

Nick: Yeah. Oh, no, given the choice, yes, I would like to have the handwritten thank-you note, I guess, even if the envelope is in my own handwriting. Okay, sure.

Leah: But I mean, I really don't mind the idea of writing my address in a book.

Nick: Yes. I think that does achieve the same result. Like, you're getting the addresses.

Leah: I mean, I think for them, the address, they feel like they're cutting down on time.

Nick: Yes. Oh, no, they're cutting corners. But the whole point of the handwritten thank-you note is that you're not cutting corners. Because yes, you could send a form letter, you could send a text, you could do all the things that cut the corners, but the fact that you didn't cut corners, so you put pen to paper, that act, that is part of the thoughtfulness which is inherent to the thank-you note. And so when you start cutting corners ...

Leah: No, I'm just saying that because you said I achieved the same effect, where that's not the effect that they want.

Nick: Right. Well then, you know, you might as well just, like, have a form letter and you fill out the gift that you gave. "Dear [insert your name here]. Thank you so much for the [write the name of the gift you just gave us here]." Like, you could do that.

Leah: I imagine these people, if they knew that was a possibility, they would have been like, "Oh, you know what? We should have had them also write down what they gave us on this."

Nick: Yes. And then also, like, bring your own stamps, please.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So where does it end? So I guess the question is: Is this common practice? It is more common than I would like. It does happen. This is not the first I've heard of this. I don't think I've personally witnessed it.

Leah: I've never witnessed it.

Nick: It is something I am aware exists in this world. And it should not, but it happens. But just because something happens doesn't mean it's right. So don't do it.

Leah: I'm being Nick right now. I don't love this.

Nick: No. I do not care for this. Now let's talk about the soap.

Leah: Oh, let's talk about the soap!

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: No. I'm just gonna say no!

Nick: Okay. And why? Why should you not be selling soap at your wedding, Leah?

Leah: I mean, you should be giving it as a gift to the people that came.

Nick: I mean, if anything, yes, this would be a favor. Right. Instead of Jordan almonds, give me some goat milk soap.

Leah: Because then it's personal. It's something you made. You're being like, "Hey, while you're here, also buy my merch."

Nick: Yeah. We are definitely turning this into a bit of a fundraiser.

Leah: Yeah. It's like, "Help us make money back on this wedding, even though you traveled here and you had to buy clothes for this and ..."

Nick: "And you brought us a gift."

Leah: "And then now if you could also buy soap that's $4 more than the going price of handmade soap." So I'm assuming it's probably around 12 bucks?

Nick: Above retail. Yes.

Leah: Above retail at your wedding!

Nick: Yeah, that's an interesting detail.

Leah: Just how odd .

Nick: It is a bit tacky, yes. So yeah, don't do that.

Leah: Don't do that.

Nick: Yeah. And I think there is an instinct out there to try to break even on a wedding. I think a lot of people who are throwing weddings do try to come up with strategies to try and break even on it. And it's like, that's not possible. A wedding is not a fundraiser. You will not break even.

Leah: And it's also, like, stay in your budget if you can't—if you don't want to make your guests pay for your wedding.

Nick: Right. And also, guests are guests. They're not customers.

Leah: Like, I've been to lovely weddings in a backyard.

Nick: Yeah. Oh. I think the best weddings are the ones that are actually, like, the most casual and relaxed. Yes.

Leah: And I mean, I love goats. So if I'm like, "Hey ..."

Nick: If Leah's not buying her soap, then you know.

Leah: You know!

Nick: Also, I've never had goat milk soap. Is that a soap I want?

Leah: Have you not even seen it?

Nick: I mean, where—where am I going where I'm seeing this?

Leah: A farmer's market?

Nick: How many farmer's markets are happening in Manhattan?

Leah: A lot!

Nick: Actually, that's true. That's true. [laughs]

Leah: There's that huge one right in Union Square.

Nick: Yeah, that's true. Although I'm usually just, like, walking through quickly and trying to, like, push through crowds. I'm not necessarily stopping to, like, "Oh, what milk is being used for this bar soap?" So sorry, letter-writer. Yes, this is tacky. I don't think you're obligated to buy the soap. I feel like you are welcome to not. I think you can pass like any customer would.

Leah: Absolutely. I wish our letter-writer could see the face Nick is making. One side of his lip is coming up.

Nick: Yeah, I'm making the face if the goat milk had spoiled.

Leah: [laughs] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Nick: If it was curdled, if it was left out in the sun for too long.

Leah: Eww! Yes, that is the face.

Nick: That is the face.

"Recently, my dad turned 70. In order to celebrate this milestone, I decided to throw him a surprise birthday party. I live several states away, so I coordinated with my mom and siblings so he wouldn't even know I was flying in. I was very excited. The night of the party, everything went smoothly. My dad was completely surprised, the catered food was delicious, and the group of about 35 guests were having a great time. When it looked like people were starting to wind down their dinners, I went into the other room and pulled out the birthday cakes out of the refrigerator to put candles in them. I got three round cakes, each one a different flavor, rather than a large sheet cake because I wanted to accommodate people having different tastes. And my sister-in-law suggested that me and my two siblings each carry one cake out to my dad. What a cute idea! I was about to light the candles, and waited for my two brothers to come help me carry the cakes when a guest I didn't know came in and asked if she could have a slice of cake to go.

Nick: "I looked up and said, 'Oh, we're just about to light the candles and sing, so just give me a minute, and then sure.' She replied, 'Yeah, we really have to go.' And she stood there expectantly. Her husband then walked in carrying their baby and added, 'It's about to start raining and we're parked down the street, so we need to get going.' I think I blinked a few times in silence, and then quietly said 'Sure.' She then added, 'Can you make it a big slice?' Now having an out of body experience, I sliced off a quarter of the cake, shoved it onto a plate and handed it to them to try to minimize the tension on the whole situation, I quickly lit the candles and handed each sibling a whole cake so that I would be the one to carry out the cut cake. I tried to hide the cut portion while carrying it into the room, but other guests definitely noticed a big chunk missing. So my question is: what? Do weather conditions ever negate the fact that a birthday cake is unsliced? And is there ever a scenario where it's okay to ask for a slice of cake before it's presented to the guest of honor?"

Leah: I wrote underneath it in big letters "No!"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I love this. I mean, I'm sorry that this happened, but I'm so delighted that this ended up in my inbox. This was real fun.

Leah: I just ...

Nick: I mean, what is wrong with people?

Leah: What is wrong with the idea that you would make something about you to demand uncut cake be cut?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So you can leave early?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, something's broken. Something is broken. Something is broken inside of you if you think that's a thing that should happen.

Leah: I know that there's a lot of pausing, and I apologize. I just ...

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I mean, I'm visualizing these people being, like, "Oh, of course you're gonna stop bringing the cake out to the birthday person and give it to me, not the birthday person, and my family so we can leave early because it might rain, and I—" what? So leave! You don't get the cake!

Nick: "Oh, and actually, can we have a big piece?"

Leah: "Can we have about half of that cake, please?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Who are you?

Nick: "Yeah. Not only do we want cake, we actually want a lot of cake."

Leah: I do think there's this, I would call it an epidemic happening where people make things about themselves.

Nick: Yes. When you think etiquette is about being mindful of other people, that is inherently contradictory to making it about yourself. Like, these things are not compatible. So yeah. Yeah, this is a real problem.

Leah: It's like you should be embarrassed to say this.

Nick: Yes, this is embarrassing. This is embarrassing. So I think let's just briefly summarize what the obligations are here: a host gets to decide when things are served. That is part of the privilege of being a host. You get to pick when things are served. And so if you say that, "Oh, this cake will be served after the birthday boy sees the cake and blows out the candles," then that's what it is. The host gets to decide this. That is also how it is traditionally done in the United States. That is what I think most everybody would expect to have happen. I don't think there's a tradition of cutting cake before blowing out candles.

Leah: I A) can't even imagine going up to somebody—visually, obviously, they're prepping the cake to bring out to the birthday boy.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: It's clearly that's what's happening. To walk in and be like, "Hey, can I get a slice first?" Already—already it's shocking. And then to have the hostess say, "Oh, actually we're just lighting it and bringing it out, we're gonna sing," and then for you to go, "No, no, no. Doesn't work for me."

Nick: [laughs] Right? Yeah, it's not a negotiation. It's not a negotiation. Now what I wanted our host and our letter-writer to say was, "Oh, unfortunately, it won't be possible to cut the cake until my father has seen it." And just that's what it is. And I think you could have said that in a polite way, but just firmly. I don't think we needed to actually acquiesce here.

Leah: No, but I do think that our letter-writer was shocked. And sometimes when you're just in complete shock, you're just—you're not ready.

Nick: I know how we got here, but I think that would have been the thing to say. And then you could add, "Oh, I do hope you'll be able to stay for that, but I totally understand if you need to dash before the rain. And it's like, it's your choice."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: "It's your choice. You can have cake or you can be dry. I can't make both things happen for you."

Leah: Yeah, that's when I employ the, "I totally understand if you have to go."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is somebody who wants to eat their cake and have it too.

Leah: I love how I've said "birthday man," and then we've also said "birthday boy" because birthday boy just rolls off the tongue, and we're calling an adult man a birthday boy, but it just has a ring to it.

Nick: Yes. I don't think we say "birthday man," do we?

Leah: I tried to say it, and it really felt weird.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think "birthday boy," I think, has no age assigned to it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So yeah. I mean, these are bad people.

Leah: These are bad people. I guarantee you they're like this across everything in their life.

Nick: Oh, yeah. No, this is not isolated at all. So what I want for anybody listening is that when you are shocked in a situation like this, you do not always have to say yes to unreasonable requests. No is allowed. You can say no. And I think we just have to practice saying no when we're shocked. I think it just takes practice, and you just have to give it a beat and be like, "That was unreasonable. I do not have to agree to this. No, unfortunately, it is not possible."

Leah: And I think you can practice lots of fun different no's like "Nooo."

Nick: Yeah. Well, let's practice, Leah. "Hey, Leah. I just bought these Q-tips from CVS, and I actually opened it, but actually, I need you to return them for me. Can you please return this open box of Q-tips to CVS. And get a manager involved if they say no.

Leah: Nooo.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: [laughs]

Leah: No, I can't do that. Which I know is not that—we're saying that's not possible at this time.

Nick: [laughs] I do feel like that's probably your personal nightmare, though.

Leah: Returning something open and then getting a manager?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I wouldn't do it for anybody.

Nick: [laughs] So being able to say no in that situation, very useful for you.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't even say it that nice. I would be—I would say—that's just a way—I'd be like—I'm not even gonna say what I would say because this is not an appropriate show for it. But I would be like ...

Nick: All right, so we have to practice. We have to practice.

Leah: It would be like, "No. No, I can't." I mean, "No, I'm uncomfortable doing that, but you're welcome to take your ear cleaners in yourself."

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So, all right. I mean, it just takes practice. That's my point. It just take practice. So I do feel like this won't happen again, but if something similar happens in your life, you know, I think we just take a beat and be like, "Oh, is this reasonable? Yes or no?" It's like a little decision tree. And if it's not, well then saying no in a polite way, this is allowed. You do not have to say yes to every unreasonable request.

Leah: I think it would be sort of fun if we all started saying, "That seems very unreasonable to me."

Nick: I have said that directly. Yes, I have said that to people, like, "Oh, unfortunately, I don't think that's a reasonable request, and I'm not able to accommodate you."

Leah: I like that.

Nick: Yeah. And that's very—I mean, that's a little stark. When I've said it it was deserved, so it was contextual. And we don't start there. You know, we always just start with, like, "Oh, unfortunately it's not possible." But sometimes you gotta escalate to, "It's not possible because that is unreasonable."

Leah: I—I know we're not doing this, but how wonderful would it be if we got these people's names and then we somehow watched ...

Nick: What do you mean we're not doing this? It's on the table for me.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Whatever you're about to say, I'm open to whatever it is.

Leah: If we could just see how they maneuvered in their everyday life, it just must be like one ...

Nick: I would love some hidden camera.

Leah: ... just one horrible thing after another.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I love that she walks in, asks for something completely unreasonable, is denied, and she asks again and then her husband comes in with a kid to be like, "Can you hurry it up for us?"

Nick: Yeah. Oh, that's a great point, too! We did not talk about that. Yeah.

Leah: Our hostess got, like, tag teamed.

Nick: Yeah. And he's like, "Let's move it along, people."

Leah: "It's gonna rain."

Nick: "It's gonna rain, so let's get this cake going." Yeah.

Leah: "Wrap up that cake!"

Nick: Oh, that's rude too!

Leah: It's just like so much at once, you're just like, "What? I just got double sided!"

Nick: Yeah, I can see how we were just done ...

Leah: Overwhelmed. It's overwhelming when a second person walks in.

Nick: Yeah, that's true. And I can see where we're like, "Oh, just take the cake."

Leah: And then the kid's staring at you like, "Are you denying me cake?"

Nick: [laughs] Oh, so much bad etiquette!

Nick: "I'm a teacher, and was recently asked to write a college letter of recommendation for a highly gifted Ivy League-bound student I've worked with for several years. I was delighted to honor her request, but was shocked to receive an email from the student's mother that questioned my writing ability because I did not graduate from an Ivy League school. Then the mother provided me with a letter which she herself had written, which she suggested I just sign and return instead. I was horrified that a parent would ask me to basically plagiarize a letter, and I simply told her, 'No thank you. I have many wonderful things to share about your daughter.' A week later, I'm still reeling, and I wish I had said something more to address the situation. Do you have other ideas on how I could have handled this?"

Leah: I wrote, "Incredibly rude" so big under this one that the whole word didn't get onto the page.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is great, yeah. Because I mean, you can't get ruder than this.

Leah: You can't get ruder than this.

Nick: Because you've insulted so many aspects of my life. You've insulted my intelligence.

Leah: You've assumed that people who go to Ivy League schools are somehow smarter than people that don't, which is not ...

Nick: Right. And also, just because you go to an Ivy League school, all it means is that you went to an Ivy League school. It really doesn't guarantee anything else about you.

Leah: Absolutely. And also, our letter writer was doing a favor!

Nick: Oh yeah, that actually didn't even hit my radar, but that's also a very good point, yes. That I'm actually doing a favor for you. Yeah.

Leah: I mean, unbelievable! I would—I feel like I've said this, but I would love to follow this mother around.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Because what person—oh, this wonderful teacher is gonna write a letter? And I'm like, "You know what? Since you didn't go to an Ivy League school, I'm gonna write this for you because obviously I'm smarter, even though you're the teacher."

Nick: "But I still need you to do me a favor."

Leah: [laughs] Yeah.

Nick: "So please, please still do that. I don't believe in your intellect, but please just, you know, scribble something with a crayon in the line here."

Leah: "I'm gonna write the whole thing for you, since you may not know what words are. If you could just sign at the bottom."

Nick: For me, actually, the blessing here of somebody who acts so outrageous is that you can't take this personally. This mother? She's doing this to everybody.

Leah: Everybody.

Nick: It's not you. It is definitely not you. This is not exclusive to you at all.

Leah: Also, when you said, "How could I have handled it?" I felt like for this situation, because I think the top of my head might have popped off if I got this email. You, I think, handled it very elegantly.

Nick: Oh, very nice! Oh, I mean, this is a textbook perfect response.

Leah: It's so perfect.

Nick: And I think the problem with this response, and why our letter writer is like, "I'm still reeling from this," is that often in etiquette, we want there to be more closure. We want it to be a little clearer to the other person that they have transgressed. And sometimes the polite response doesn't actually give us that closure. We don't really get to say, like, "Oh, you're an animal." [laughs]

Leah: You don't get to say it, but you've let them know, "Oh, no, no, no, no. I'll be writing my own." Which ...

Nick: Yes.

Leah: ... is the biggest thing you could—you didn't budge to this person.

Nick: Yes, the thing to do here was not take their letter and just sign it. Definitely not.

Leah: And you saying "No, I'm good, thank you," is to this person setting up a boundary very clearly.

Nick: And you even said, like, "I actually have some very nice things to say about your daughter. I'm giving you a compliment."

Leah: You're so lovely.

Nick: But yeah, other ideas how she could handle this?

Leah: No.

Nick: I think this was good.

Leah: I think there's no way you could explain—this person is not gonna take in how absolutely inappropriate, rude, all the things that they're implying with their words, they're not gonna get it.

Nick: I mean, I guess this just goes to show we have our work cut out for us still.

Leah: I mean, this woman!

Nick: "Our in-laws were hosting a small dinner for us and a few relatives. We let them know beforehand that if they needed us to grab anything from the store before we came over, we'd be happy to. A few hours later, they sent us the whole shopping list for the entire dinner. We quietly obliged, brought it over, and they started cooking. But they never reimbursed us. While I don't mind running errands for someone, it's like they were spending our money without asking. Is this rude? Even when it's family? How would you respond to a situation like this?" [laughs] Oh, dear.

Leah: Right? I read this and I was like ...

Nick: Oh, dear.

Leah: There was a lot of head wiping. Like, a lot of foreheads, sort of.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Essentially, what happened is—what the question should have been was, "Hey, can you buy all this stuff and we'll make dinner for you?" That's what that is. That's not a, "Hey, do you want to come over?"

Nick: Yeah. I mean, my first thought was, what was their plan had you not offered to stop at the store? Were they gonna go grocery shopping? Like, how was this even gonna unfold?

Leah: I also thought about that. I literally don't get it.

Nick: Right?

Leah: This is one of the ones where you wish you could interview the other party to be like, "Hey."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "What was gonna happen if they didn't bring over all the groceries?"

Nick: So a couple thoughts, and we'll go through them in no particular order. One is, offering like this, it is a thing that we say. "Oh, do you want me to pick up anything?" And very often we don't mean it. It's just sort of like a thing that we say to be polite. But I think some people do take it literally, which is what happened here. And so I think if you aren't really interested in doing it, or you think you might be taken advantage of, yeah, don't offer. This is what happens if you offer to do something— they might actually take you up on it.

Leah: No, I don't think people would guess that. I always offer, and I mean it. And I assume people are like ice, maybe a beverage, something they missed.

Nick: Yeah, as soon as I said that, I was like, "Oh, no. This is bonkers."

Leah: This is bonkers.

Nick: This is a bonkers thing. It's a bonkers thing to offer and then, like, oh, please do all the shopping.

Leah: Please do every item for the entire meal. That's—I mean, how could you have guessed that?

Nick: And actually, can you do some back to school supply shopping for me too? I need some binders and pencils.

Leah: What's going on?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I think yes, it's rude even when it's family. It's rude when it's anybody.

Nick: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes, let's answer that question. Yeah. Oh, no, this is rude.

Leah: Because it's family, I think there's no way really to address it, except for to not ever do it again.

Nick: Yes, I think we definitely don't want to put ourselves in this situation ever again, knowing that these are the sort of people that will do this. So this is the last time this happens.

Leah: Also, when you offered—this is not you our letter writer, it's anybody. If you offered a host a quote, "small dinner for people," you're hosting.

Nick: Right.

Leah: You're not then sending the people the grocery list and being like, "Oh, can you get this?"

Nick: Yeah, because then you're just like the catering hall, but not the caterer.

Leah: Yeah, you're not—you're not actually hosting that event at all.

Nick: Right.

Leah: You're just having it in your home.

Nick: It's a potluck for one.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. No, there's actually not a term for this because it doesn't exist.

Leah: I think that's the perfect way to say it, because when I read it, I was like, I don't—we don't have—I don't know—because we don't have the words for a thing like that.

Nick: Yeah, this is not a thing where it's sort of like, you do everything and come to my house, but we say that I'm hosting somehow. Yeah, no.

Leah: I also think it's particularly—and I brought this up before it went into your in-laws.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: There's really no way to address it. It's not—you're one step away from that.

Nick: Yes. The only idea I had when you get this text message with a shopping list attachment is to pretend it was a joke. Like, "Oh, that's funny. We'll pick up some brownies. See you soon!" Like, that would be the only option, maybe? And you really have to stick the landing.

Leah: I can't imagine saying that to relatives.

Nick: Yeah. No, I don't know if it's feasible. I was just trying to brainstorm something. But yeah, I think you just have to suck it up and just you do the shopping, and that's the end of that.

Leah: But I would love to know what would have happened if they hadn't texted and been like, "Hey, do you need anything?" What were they gonna cook?

Nick: Yeah, I think they'd probably order in, I guess. Which I guess they'd ask you to pay for. [laughs]

Leah: So odd!

Nick: Now in general, though, Miss Manners actually says that you can show up empty-handed. The key for these situations is to reciprocate. So it is okay to not bring anything at all and to not offer to bring something, and just to reciprocate the invitation. Or you can bring something, not show up empty-handed, but you just pick what that is. It's a jam from a local farmer's market. It's coffee from the roastery. It's, like, whatever else you want to bring. And you could just decide that without asking your hosts what that is.

Leah: I mean, it would be hard for me not to ask people if they needed anything. It's just such a knee-jerk reaction.

Nick: Oh, that's like your default setting when you're invited over?

Leah: Well, if it's like an evening and—you know what I mean? I think, oh, maybe they're overwhelmed and they need—you know, a lot of times people forget to grab that one last thing, you know? And their mid-cooking—which obviously these people were not mid-cooking—and they're like, "Oh, I totally forgot the celery. Could you please grab the celery?"

Nick: Oh, this comes to mind, then. We would wait until we are en route to the venue to make our offer. So we're 20 minutes away. "Oh, there's a supermarket that's right there. Do you want us to pop in to grab something? Surely the rest of the meal is together, but if you did forget the crème fraîche, we're available to grab it for you if you need it." That might be a way out of this.

Leah: I mean, in the future.

Nick: Because in this letter, they indicated that several hours passed between them offering to stop by the store and getting the shopping list. So quite a lot of time had passed, and so I think the offer to bring something was too early.

Leah: Well, not too early. I don't think we should blame our letter writer because honestly, how could you be prepared for this?

Nick: No, that's true. But this would be a way to still offer to bring things in the future, but not get stuck with the whole list.

Leah: Yes, if you decide you're gonna risk it again.

Nick: I might risk it again. Maybe. Well, because if it's like you, and you are inclined to do this, this is your default setting.

Leah: But I mean, it's only gonna happen with the in-laws. No other group of people are gonna be like, "Can you buy ..."

Nick: "Everything?"

Leah: Yeah. It's just not—it's unheard of.

Nick: Well, it's heard of, because we just heard it.

Leah: Now it's heard of.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You know, we should almost have a section called "Now it's heard of."

Nick: "Now we know it's a thing in the world."

Leah: And things that we've never heard of, and we bring it up. [laughs]

Leah: Get on the floor! Stop driving your car!

Nick: Yeah. This is so wild.

Leah: Stand in a doorway!

Nick: Yeah. No, get into the basement. Whatever you do for tornadoes, bathtub, whatever—whatever you need to do to be safe right now, gotta do that.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: Gotta do that. So it is quote, "After retiring, my mother, like many retirees, became more involved with local nonprofits. My parents weren't wealthy, so much of her efforts involved volunteering, serving on boards, writing grants and organizing events. It goes without saying that most of the people she worked with were lovely. One of the organizations that my mom worked with threw a silent auction that my mom helped to organize. One woman—let's call her Lisa—donated a necklace for the silent auction that had been made by a friend of hers. In the run up to the event, Lisa talked up the necklace significantly, and it was definitely my mom's style. At the event, my mom bid on the necklace and her bid ended up winning. My mom was genuinely thrilled to have won the necklace, and she shared her appreciation with Lisa for donating such a beautiful piece. Lisa's response? She complained that my mom's winning bid was well below market value, implying that my mom was somehow shortchanging the organization.

Nick: "Lisa then went a step further, and suggested that the best course of action would be for my mom to give the necklace back so that it could be part of the next auction, and hopefully raise a more appropriate amount of money. My mother demurred, again stated how lovely the necklace was and how honored she was to have won such a beautiful piece. We all thought that was the end of it.

Nick: "Fast forward about a year, and my mom passed away very suddenly after a short illness. While I was home going through some correspondence with my dad, among the lovely notes from the many people my mom had touched was a note from Lisa. After opening with her condolences, she switched gears and once again brought up the necklace. She reminded my father that his recently deceased wife of 50 years had underpaid for a necklace that she, Lisa, had so generously donated. She then went on to suggest that a fitting memorial for my mother would be to redonate the necklace so that it could be re-auctioned, hopefully bringing in a more appropriate amount of money this time. Bonkers! She doubled down on petty in a condolence letter. Needless to say, she did not get a thank-you note and that necklace is currently sitting in my jewelry box."

Leah: Uh ...

Nick: I mean, this is so wild. This is so wild.

Leah: This is so wild.

Nick: This is so—what is this necklace? I mean ...

Leah: This woman is rabid. This is a rabid woman.

Nick: Golly! My precious! What is this necklace? I mean, wow? Wow. I mean, what is there to say?

Leah: I didn't—I couldn't imagine that it would—this is where it was gonna go, that she was gonna take it to this ...

Nick: Yeah. No, I mean, beyond the grave.

Leah: I was already mortified for the first.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, no, no. Lisa really took it to a whole new place.

Leah: Lisa is like a gold medalist in trash behavior.

Nick: Oh, this is beyond that. I mean, this is—you've not only won the gold, you are global champion. You are on the Wheaties box. I mean, you're getting all the endorsements. Yeah. No, you are the best in the world.

Leah: You are the best in the world at being the worst. You are the best at being the worst. Congratulations.

Nick: I mean, this is definitely top five? Top five?

Leah: It's so disrespectful.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, because—I mean, well, to our letter-writer, I'm so sorry that this has happened. And to get this letter.

Leah: And I'm so sorry for your mom's passing.

Nick: Yeah. And the last thing you need is this letter from Lisa about this necklace.

Leah: Right. She obviously did so many wonderful things and touched so many lives, and then we have Lisa showing up like a—like a monster from the deep.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Sorry about your loss, but by the way, that necklace?"

Leah: "Can we talk about me?"

Nick: [laughs] And it's just—I mean, this necklace? The obsession with the necklace is really wild.

Leah: I just—what?

Nick: What? Yeah. What? What?

Leah: What?

Nick: What? What? Yeah. So this is an etiquette crime. Yeah. No, this is the very definition of an etiquette crime. Yeah. So thank you for sending it to us. I hope this brought some relief, or I hope this was helpful sending this to us. I hope this brought you something good by sharing this with us.

Leah: Yeah. Because we all—you floored all of us. Lisa is definitely—you really met a corker.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. That's a real nice way to put it. Yeah, Lisa is something special. She's real something special. So thank you. And you out there, if you have an etiquette crime to report, if you've been the victim or a witness to one, send it to us: EtiquetteCrime.com. Because we love to get them.

Leah: I'm still in shock. I wish we had a letter. Maybe this is something for the Were You Raised By Wolves? a thing to fill. Like another service we can provide.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Some form of stationery that has something in it that's more properly worded than, "What are you thinking? Like, have you lost your mind?" Like, something ...

Nick: Uh-huh. So a line of "What is wrong with you?"

Leah: Yes. A line of "What is wrong with you?" stationery.

Nick: Okay. Okay.

Leah: [laughs] That people can just put in the mail, and it could be our address on the back.

Nick: I see.

Leah: So if they don't want to take it ...

Nick: I mean, Leah, we already have this stationery, because we have stationary that says, Were You Raised By Wolves? Like, we are already ...

Leah: But I like the idea that they open it and it says, "What is wrong with you?"

Nick: Ah, okay. So on the outside it says, Were You Raised By Wolves? logo. How jaunty. And then inside, you open it and then it just says, "What is wrong with you?"

Leah: [laughs] Yes. Yes.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: And somehow it needs to have a typeface that has that tone.

Leah: Yes. And then, like, maybe that emoji that has the exploding head?

Nick: Or just thumbs down.

Leah: Thumbs down. Yes! Thumbs down!

Nick: What is wrong with you?

Leah: Thumbs down. [laughs]

Nick: "Best wishes, Nick and Leah." Yeah.

Leah: Boo! "Best wishes, Nick and Leah." Yes! Yes!

Nick: Our letter-writer says quote, "A good friend is getting married this summer. Both him and his fiancé live and work in a very expensive city, and they've decided to get married on a small island a short ferry ride away from the main city, which has created a logistics nightmare as there isn't a large hotel there or a lot of other places to stay, not to mention people flying from across the country needing to find accommodation and deal with the ferry schedule. Today, my friend and his fiancé released the following update to all attendees via their website."

Leah: Sit down, sit down at home. Sit down.

Nick: Buckle up. Yeah, if you're on a treadmill, you gotta power it down because that's not safe. Quote, "The bar and the APPYS are going to be potluck style. Together we can dine like royalty without breaking the bank. We ask each party to bring a couple of things, if not more, from the food list on our website—the biggest size possible, please (local guests only) for food. As for booze, we ask each party to bring one BIG—all in capital letters—one BIG bottle of liquor with an appropriate bottle of mixer, plus two bags of ice."

Nick: "The island does not have sufficient supply for us to purchase all the necessary ice, so we need all guests to arrive with ice and a cooler too, if you have one. Feel free to bring any accoutrements as you feel inspired: bitters, cherries, egg whites, shakers, et cetera. Label them if you want them back. We will provide lemons, limes, shot glasses, some shakers and drinking vessels. We will also be providing pulled pork and buns as the main course. The MAIN ASK—all in capital letters—is liquor, mix and ice, plus whatever you feel called to from our appetizer list. Thank you for helping our day feel swankier than we could do alone." Oh!

Nick: So then our letter writer continues. "Am I living in the Twilight Zone? Are they seriously asking people to travel to an island off the coast and bring all the booze, ice and appetizers for their wedding? All of their close family members are flying from over 2,000 miles away, and they've graciously excluded them from the food request list, but are still asking them for liquor and ice. Is this okay in some parallel universe? I understand that the cost of living is insane in their city, but it seems like they could at least have organized a cash bar to sell drinks and should be able to ship their own ice over to the island. To top it off, they've indicated that for gifts, they would prefer cash."

Leah: Oh. I also want to add because it's important, I think, for our listeners at home to know this because it really adds to the tone. They are saying APPYS.

Nick: APPYS.

Leah: In capital letters like it's a good time.

Nick: Okay, so I have a very different definition of swanky than I think these people do. I do not read this as swanky.

Leah: Oh, I don't think anybody reading this reads this as swanky.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, what do we do with this? I mean, what do we do with people like this?

Leah: I honestly don't know what I would do with this. I mean, I know what I would—I'm not bringing that. You want me to travel?

Nick: No, I want you to fly 2000 miles for my wedding and then I want you to get on a ferry.

Leah: You want me to put—I need to be put up in a place. I'm putting myself up in a place, and then you gotta travel in your wedding clothes, which is never comfortable.

Nick: Oh, you're right. Okay.

Leah: I gotta get to the boat. I gotta get—now I'm carrying ice. And secondly, you're assuming everybody drinks hard liquor. I gotta buy hard liquor?

Nick: Mmm! That's a good point. Yeah.

Leah: Which I am not doing.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I do not have hard liquor in my house. I'm not buying it for anybody. And I'm not being told to buy it. And I gotta bring an appetizer?

Nick: [laughs] I'm bringing a lot of stuff. Yeah. I mean, thankfully I'm only bringing cash as the gift, so that's easy to transport.

Leah: I mean, that really lightens the load because otherwise I was gonna be weighed down by this desk I was gonna bring for you or this new bed. But I mean, this is unbelievable!

Nick: It's unbelievable. Yeah. And to be clear, I'm not against a potluck wedding reception. I think that can be totally lovely.

Leah: Absolutely!

Nick: A backyard. Intimate gathering. I think there's actually something very lovely about the community getting together and, like, throwing a party together. Like, that's totally lovely. That is not what this is.

Leah: Also, and that's what that should have been at the beginning.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Because I think that's a beautiful idea for a—I've been to a wedding like that. It was wonderful. That's what I got invited to in the beginning. "This is what we're doing. We're providing the place. Come celebrate with us. Bring what you—" yes! I love it! I would love to do that. This is me spending all of my money.

Nick: After I've already told you I'm coming, and now you've changed the rules.

Leah: You've changed the rules after I'm already coming. I've already bought my ticket. I'm flying across America. I got a hotel, and now I have to go—I gotta carry ice in a dress?

Nick: Right. I mean, you've just created this whole other extra level of hassle for me.

Leah: It's such an extra level of hassle.

Nick: And the way this was written, I'm actually also offended by. Because it's written in this sort of faux friendly "isn't this great?" sort of way. And it's sort of like, you can't be writing this thinking that what you're doing is okay, right? Like, in your heart of hearts, you know. You know, this is not ...

Leah: I don't know if they—I don't know if people know anymore. "We can dine like royalty without breaking the bank?" You are breaking the bank. My bank.

Nick: [laughs] The banks of all your guests.

Leah: And now I'm doing physical labor.

Nick: Yeah. Ice? Yeah. You want me to bring five pounds of ice?

Leah: I love how they're like, "We'll bring the glasses. You bring everything else."

Nick: Yeah. "But make sure you put a label maker on it if you want it back."

Leah: "If you want it back. Otherwise it's going into our wedding gifts."

Nick: Also, I love this idea of, like, "Oh, one of the things you can bring is egg whites." Okay, that sounds nice.

Leah: You're changing the parameters three quarters of the way through.

Nick: That's what's rude.

Leah: Because now I'm stuck.

Nick: Yeah. If this was part of the deal when you sent the invitation and I could make an informed decision, I would then think about whether or not this is how I wanted to spend my vacation time and treasure, and if I was gonna enjoy this and wanted to celebrate this with you in this way. I think you can use the cash you would have given them, and you can allocate that towards the thing that they're making you bring now. I think that can come from the same budget. So if you're gonna get them a cash gift of some dollar amount, then we deduct the cost of ice.

Leah: We now deduct the cost of the cab we have to get now to carry us to the boat, because we're actually—I mean, a bag of ice is—this is not—I can't put it in my purse. I'm not putting it in my hand satchel.

Nick: And we're making Nana bring a tray of brownies and mixers and a five pound bag of ice and a bottle of vodka? Like, oh, is that what we're making this person do? Okay. Yeah.

Leah: I can't.

Nick: So yeah, letter-writer? This is so horrible. So I'm sorry. If you somehow were unavailable for this wedding, you know, wouldn't blame you for skipping it. I mean, wouldn't blame you.

Leah: I wouldn't blame you.

Nick: Wouldn't blame you. I mean, etiquette doesn't allow you to skip it, but your secret would be safe with us. [laughs]

Leah: Etiquette does allow for something else to come up.

Nick: Etiquette definitely allows for something to come up, especially when you change the rules.

Leah: Change the rules on me. I don't know why it's really the ice that puts me over. And I think it's because every time you carry ice, you get splotches of wet on your person.

Nick: It would just be better for you to just, like, arrange to have a truck show up with all the ice you need and you just pay for it. Like, that just would be the thing. Or just decide we're doing a mulled wedding and all the beverages are warm. We're not gonna do cold beverages. We're just gonna pivot. This is a room temperature or hot beverage event only. And then problem solved.

Leah: Because half this ice is gonna melt on the way there.

Nick: Oh, yeah. Actually, yeah. How many bags of water are you gonna be getting? Yeah. Yeah. No, none of this is good. None of this is good.

Nick: Before I start, if you're driving, just pull over. If you're on a treadmill right now, I need you to power that down. And if you're sitting down, I actually need you to actually go on the floor now so that you don't fall over. Okay? I just want everybody to be safe. All right. Ready? Quote, "Recently, one of my neighbor's adult daughters was visiting me. I've lived across from this family for 23 years in our quiet, rural neighborhood, and have had a wonderful relationship with the entire family. The young woman just mentioned to me that her mother cut blooming tulips from my yard to take to church last weekend and hoped that I did not mind. Well, not only do I mind, but if she would have asked my permission, I would have politely told her no. She not only has her own gardens, but fresh flowers are available at our local grocery store.

Nick: "Her mother has been a good neighbor, and I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of this event. But to add fuel to the fire, I am blind, and my neighbor is well aware that I would never have known that the flowers were missing. Is it ethical to steal flowers from a neighbor to take to church? Another friend told me to suggest to my flower-stealing neighbor that she needed to do, quote, 'A few extra Hail Marys for stealing from a blind woman.' How can I tactfully confront my neighbor and let her know that my flowers are not available for her to cut without my consent?"

Leah: Should we pause?

Nick: [laughs] I think this is the most outrageous question we have ever received. I feel like this—this is—is this the most?

Leah: I feel like we've had a few that I've had to sit on the floor for that I can't think of right now. Because there are bells ringing in my head. Not like Christmas bells, but like alarm bells.

Nick: I mean, we have a blind neighbor and we cut her flowers from her yard hoping she would never know because she's blind.

Leah: And then our neighbor, our letter-writer is trying to be "I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of this event. Is it ethical to steal flowers from a neighbor to take to church?" It doesn't matter where they're taking the flowers.

Nick: [laughs] No, definitely destination does not matter.

Leah: The church does not want stolen flowers.

Nick: Not—no. Definitely not.

Leah: Sort of antithetical to church!

Nick: And I think to do something knowing that you won't get caught doesn't mean it's right.

Leah: No.

Nick: [laughs] Right? I mean, yeah, I'm—what is there to say? What is there to say?

Leah: I wrote down—I didn't know what to say.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I just wrote literally, "What?"

Nick: I got this on my phone, and I was on the subway. And I gasped so loud that everybody in that car from end to end looked at me. It was the loudest gasp you've ever heard. I was just like, "What is happening? What is happening here?" And of course, like so many of our letter-writers, they are being so nice about this.

Leah: And really this is really what it is. It's always our letter-writers who are like, "Is it—I don't want to make a big deal. Is this rude?"

Nick: [laughs] Right.

Leah: It's stealing your flowers!

Nick: Stealing your flowers.

Leah: Assuming you won't notice.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And they have their own flowers.

Nick: And they have their own flowers.

Leah: Not that if they didn't have their own flowers they should do it. You ask people, "Hey, may I cut some flowers for church?" "No." Done.

Nick: Yeah. [laughs] So I don't know. I mean, I just don't—what do we do with this? So I guess I think we should say something to our neighbor.

Leah: Can I really quick—when you say, "What do we do about this?" This is the kind of place where I would love to go to this neighbor's house and knock on the door and be like, "Hey, this is Nick and Leah. And we heard that you've been cutting your neighbor's flowers because you think it's okay because she quote, 'Won't know.' And we would just love to discuss how you mentally got to that decision as something that's okay."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "We would love to learn about how your mind works."

Nick: "Walk us through this." Yeah.

Leah: "Walk us through this."

Nick: "Take us through that journey." Yeah. So I guess the question, though, is how can I tactfully confront my neighbor and let her know that this was not cool? That's the question we've been asked. And so I feel like polite-yet-direct, I think that's the thing here. "Hey Lisa, I heard you cut some of my tulips. I would appreciate you asking first before you do that in the future."

Leah: I mean, that is too good for them. Not our letter-writer, that's too good for the neighbors. But I mean, that's how you be a polite person who takes the high road.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "Hey, heard you cut some of my flowers. I'd appreciate you asking in the future. Also, I'm gonna say no."

Nick: Actually, I don't think I would even include the "No" part in that.

Leah: No, I'm just saying that to be sassy.

Nick: And I would wait for you to ask me. [laughs] Yeah. Like, I get the instinct to want to be a little sassy. Yeah. I mean, that's usually my default setting, but we have to try our best not to. I do also think, separately, we do need to enlist the help of a different neighbor to keep an eye on your yard, because it is possible that they're gonna try to do this again. And it would be nice to know if this has happened.

Leah: Oh, I immediately was thinking that we should electrify our yard.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: With, like, a perimeter.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: Like, you know those things they put underground for dogs that keeps them—I don't know if we could change that into, like, a people walk onto our yard and they get electrified. I think that's completely fair.

Nick: Or can we do that thing that banks have where they have, like, little ink things inside of money that will explode if you take the money? So can we put some of those ink things inside the flowers so that if you cut them they'll, like, explode?

Leah: I think you could write a list of all the things that your neighbor shouldn't take because she quote, "Thinks you wouldn't notice." And you could just be like, "Hey, here are all the things that you can't take from me."

Nick: Yeah. How about take advantage? [laughs]

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. I just can't believe this neighbor.

Nick: No, I mean, it's so—it's so gross. It's so gross. Like, why would you do this? Why would you—like, what part of you thinks this is okay? Like, why are you broken?

Leah: [laughs] Why are you broken?

Nick: Why are you broken? No, really. Like, because it's like, clearly you know your neighbor can't see, you know your neighbor wouldn't notice and you're like, "That's cool. And we're gonna, like, just cut flowers out of her yard."

Leah: I would have trouble not losing my temper a little bit if I were our letter-writer.

Nick: So I think that if you wanted to be a little cheeky but in the zone of etiquette, I think you could make a joke. Which she actually hints about in her letter, which is like, "Hey, Lisa. I would appreciate if you would just, like, give me a heads up before you cut any of my flowers. And if you wanted to, you could say a couple extra Hail Marys for stealing from a blind woman." And you could kind of say that in, like, a jokey way, but it's sort of like you also make your point. So I think if you could land that, I think there is a way to sort of make that joke, which is a joke but not a joke.

Leah: I think you could also—let's trot this out.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Say, "Hey, I heard you took my flowers without permission because you thought I wouldn't notice."

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: "And I've appreciated—" how long have they been neighbors?

Nick: 23 years.

Leah: "I appreciate that we've been—because we've been such great neighbors for 23 years, it sort of shocked me because it makes me feel taken advantage of."

Nick: Ooh, I like where we're going with this.

Leah: Because that's what it is. You've had a relationship with these people, and they did something very dishonest and underhanded.

Nick: Yeah. And it should hurt your feelings. Yeah. And to say that I think is also fair. Like, "It hurt my feelings to hear that you cut flowers hoping I wouldn't notice."

Leah: And then just leave it to them to try to—whatever they say next.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then you can see how you feel about their response.

Nick: And hopefully there's gonna be an apology there.

Leah: A deep apology, and they should replant your plants.

Nick: Oh, yes. How do they want to make it up to you? I didn't even think about that part of the equation. But yes, I mean, ideally, how this resolves is, "This hurt my feelings and I hope it doesn't happen again." "Oh, my goodness. I'm so sorry." Some very heartfelt apology. And then, "How do I make it up to you? I will do X, Y, Z, and we'll make sure we plant more tulips for you for next year as well." And, like, "Oh, here are all these bulbs." Something in that zone? Yeah.

Leah: And if all that falls short, send us the address.

Nick: I mean, I think you could still send us the address because I would still like to show up.

Leah: I have some airline miles.

Nick: Oh, I'll pay cash for this.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: This is worth cold, hard cash. Absolutely.

Nick: Wow. Yeah, that one really truly is number one.

Leah: Yeah, I'll think about it randomly sometimes. It just pops into my head.

Nick: Yeah. So—goodness!

Leah: I can't believe that we have had all of these questions.

Nick: We have, Leah. So thank you to all of you for sending in those questions and so many more.

Leah: I mean, you've—you've sent us thousands of questions.

Nick: Yes. Oh, thousands and thousands of questions. Absolutely. And we've only gotten to, like, a thousand of them so far.

Leah: Yeah, we've probably hit a thousand about.

Nick: Right? Give or take, plus or minus. So no wonder we haven't solved all the world's etiquette problems yet.

Leah: But I can't even tell you how much we appreciate you sending in your questions to us and your bonkers and your wee-wee-wee ...

Nick: [laughs] Etiquette crime reports? Yes, thank you. Thank you for sending in all of your great stories. Thank you for supporting us and our show. We really couldn't do it without you, and it is so lovely to be on this journey with all of you guys.

Leah: It really—like, we literally couldn't do it without you.

Nick: We actually could not do this show without you. So thank you.

Leah: Thank you for listening. You mean so much to us.

Nick: And we want to leave you with something that superfan Anne sent us. She is a longtime supporter of the show. She supports us on Patreon, and she's also an amazing harpist. And she sent us something very special that I want to leave you all with today.

Leah: Really blows my mind. It's so beautiful. Thank you so much, Anne.

Nick: And lastly, thank you, Leah, because can you imagine the show with anybody else?

Leah: [laughs] I don't know. I don't know.

Nick: [laughs] Impossible to say.

Leah: Well, thank you, Nick.

Nick: Thank you, Leah. I'd send you a handwritten note—actually, I do have your address.

Leah: You have my—you have sent me a handwritten note. I've sent you a handwritten note.

Nick: Yes. No, handwritten notes happen. Yes. We walk the walk.

Leah: Thank you, Nick, for being the—what is this?

Nick: Well, you're cracking a whip. What is this?

Leah: Well, I mean, that's not what it is, but that is what it is.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for cracking the whip. Okay, I'll take that.

Leah: [laughs] No.

Nick: And you, Leah. Thank you for being you.

Leah: Well, thank you, Nick, for being you.

Nick: No, thank you.

Leah: No, I insist. No passbacks for infinity.

Nick: Okay, fine. And now here's Anne.

[Theme Song on Harp]