Using Knife Rests, Spamming Everyone You Know, Pocketing Hotel Slippers, and More

Nick: Do you ruin clean tablecloths? Do you reuse your passwords? Do you take people for granted? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right on to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Oh my goodness, does this have to do with the email that you sent me earlier?

Nick: It sure does. So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about this. So Leah, please open your email. I've sent you a bunch of photos of this object and I want you to tell me what you see.

Leah: I just really quick want our listeners to know that I do get—I'll get, like, a text or, like, an email and like a good child on Christmas, I do not look.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I appreciate your restraint.

Leah: Even though it's really hard.

Nick: So please take a look and let me know what you see.

Leah: I wanted to yell "Dogs!"

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: Oh yeah, that's a dog.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Okay. Yeah, that's a dog.

Leah: We've got multiple options of things that I see here.

Nick: Uh-huh? Describe them.

Leah: Hold on. Let me—let me see them all before I say anything.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Sure.

Leah: Now I see monkeys.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: I'm not getting sucked into this where I answer something before having all of the facts, Nick.

Nick: I—okay. Somebody has learned from the past.

Leah: Oh, wow. There's a lot. Okay.

Nick: Yeah, I gave you quite a selection.

Leah: Wow.

Nick: So what are these things?

Leah: So the common thread—because the first group is metal, the second grouping is more like a crystal?

Nick: Yeah, there's some crystal ones.

Leah: So they are all long.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: With something at the end. Do not tell me what these are, Nick.

Nick: Okay. I got all day.

Leah: I think that they are lymphatic face drainage.

Nick: Sure. We're definitely gonna be talking about that on our etiquette podcast.

Leah: So basically, like, the first one, they're shaped like a dog. So what they do is they—oh, and pigs, they elongate it in the middle. So it's like very long in the middle, and then we have the sets of legs and the tails at the end.

Nick: Right. Like little wiener dogs.

Leah: So all of these things, technically, we could put our hand—like we could hold them in our hand, or I assume they're for something on the table. Could we lay our toothpick on them?

Nick: Oh, okay. Getting closer.

Leah: Could we—oh, maybe, maybe we have a utensil that we've used.

Nick: Oh? Go on.

Leah: Perhaps we've used our spoon or our fork or our knife.

Nick: Ah!

Leah: We've used our knife.

Nick: Okay. [laughs]

Leah: And then we don't want that knife to touch the tablecloth.

Nick: We sure don't. So yes, these are knife rests. Knife rests. And so why I wanted to talk about it is I have increasingly seen these in the wild, and I don't know if everybody is familiar with these. And so I thought let's talk about it.

Leah: I'm just sort of taking a deep breath from, like—I know I was obviously very helped with the "Ah!," but the idea that I got there at all ...

Nick: You got there. You got there.

Leah: I started with face massager. So I mean ...

Nick: Yeah. So we got to the right place in the end. So yes, these are knife rests. And the idea is that we do not want to put dirty utensils back on a table. And so the idea is you would rest your dirty knife on this thing so it is not touching the table. That's it. That's the whole thing. And so these started probably in the 1700s, and they definitely became popular in the Victorian era. Where the idea of, like, oh, let's just create specialized things for the table, like really went out of control where we have, like, strawberry forks and, like, jelly spoons and, like, just let's create a utensil that's only for one item. And so the idea of, like, oh, decorative knife rests, like, obviously that was a thing that was happening. But it has definitely faded, and it probably faded around World War II. And now you really don't see them anywhere except, like, flea markets and Etsy. Except in France—and put a pin in that, we'll come back to that.

Nick: And the important thing to note is that these are not for formal meals. This is actually for informal meals, because the reason why you use this is because you're gonna be reusing the tablecloth. If you swapped out the tablecloth, you wouldn't have to use this. It's kind of like napkin rings. Napkin rings are not actually for formal meals because the idea is, like, oh, you're gonna give me a new napkin, right? Like, I don't have to reuse this napkin for another meal. That's why if you go to someone's house for a fancy dinner, and they give you a napkin ring, you could say, "Oh, I didn't realize I was staying for breakfast." I mean, don't say that.

Leah: Yeah, don't say that.

Nick: You could think it. Yeah, because, like, you would not offer a napkin ring to a guest if you aren't planning on making them use that napkin more than once. So similar for this knife rest. Now in France, this is actually very common in people's homes for a lot of different reasons. One of them is that I think more than Americans, a French home, when they're setting out dinner, it does tend to look a little nicer.

Leah: Mm-hmm.

Nick: I think there is a little something about, like, oh, let's have a nice tablescape, even for just a normal weeknight meal. So, like, I think French people probably use tablecloths more often than Americans do for the same sort of meal. I don't want to generalize, but I feel like I think there's something to that. And so in a French home, I don't want to be doing laundry all the time. And so, like, knife rest, that makes sense. Also, a French meal, even in your home, you might have multiple courses, right? You might have multiple courses in which like, oh, you might need to rest the knife in between these courses. Whereas in the United States, often it's sort of like one course. It's just like, "Here's all the food, dig in." And so, like, we don't need to set our knife down anywhere because we're just eating the whole thing.

Leah: [laughs] We're just plowing straight through.

Nick: So I think there's a little something to that. And so if you want to set the table with them, if you want to use them—and you should do it, they're delightful, you would set it right above the knife. You would not set the table with the knife on it already. So a clean knife does not go on the knife rest, but it would go right above the knife rest. And Miss Manners was asked about it once and she was like, put it near the knife rest to let people know, like, oh, that's what you're supposed to do with it. It's like a little hint. It's a little hint for your guest. Now interestingly, and where I've seen this pop up more and more, is in fancy restaurants. So increasingly, fancy restaurants are using knife rests, which is interesting because fancy restaurants and knife rests don't typically go together. But part of it is, like, coming from a place of sustainability. You are also seeing it just as a design object, just like, oh, here's an opportunity for a restaurant to, like, do something a little fancy or a little design-y. And so you're just seeing it just sort of like an objet on the table.

Leah: An objet d'art.

Nick: It is an objet de table.

Leah: Well, those are all really pretty that you sent me.

Nick: Yes, some of them are quite beautiful. I mean, they're either dogs or animals, or they're just ornate or they're crystal or they're bone or they're porcelain or they're designed. Yeah. I mean, it's like chopstick rests in that there's tons of designs out there that you could use.

Leah: I also really like the idea, because even though I often have no—most things don't bother me, I do hate putting a dirty knife down.

Nick: Yes, and etiquette says you never put dirty utensils on a table.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: I mean, that's the basic etiquette. You just never do it. Except there was that one time when I think Emily Post says that, like, you could do it if it was, like, a milkshake. Remember this?

Leah: Oh, I do remember this.

Nick: She would allow it if you were in a soda fountain with, like, a Formica countertop. Like, she would let it slide, but that was it. But yeah, when we're eating a meal, yeah, we're not putting dirty cutlery back on the table. So a knife rest is also very practical.

Leah: I just also like it for my knife. My knife's been working so hard.

Nick: Oh, it just needs a break. It just needs a little nap. Yeah, just a little tiny little, little siesta.

Leah: One of those little—it looks like a paint me like one of your French ladies, like the—the couch you ...

Nick: From Titanic?

Leah: Yeah, the couch that you lay out on.

Nick: Oh sure, a chaise.

Leah: It's a chaise lounge. Yes. Or you're in a therapist office.

Nick: I love that "paint me like one of your French girls" is the way you come up with "chaise lounge."

Leah: Did you get there? Did you get there?

Nick: I got there. That's true. Okay. So knife rests. Use them. Love them. Enjoy it.

Leah: Now they're in our world. Thank you, Nick.

Nick: My pleasure!

---

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and to the internet that is sending things out of your email.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about when your email account is hacked, and people are receiving weird emails from you.

Leah: And I think this is important to talk about because it happens a lot now.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, definitely happens more often than it should.

Leah: And I think—I've been hacked before.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I think there's a part of it where you sort of feel so embarrassed and like you did something wrong, and then you're sort of like, you want to hide it or not talk about it, but you gotta deal with it. You gotta just deal with it right away.

Nick: Yes. Not dealing with it is not really an option.

Leah: And well, A) just on your own side, if you think you've been hacked, change your password right away.

Nick: Yes. Let's use strong passwords, people. Yeah. 123456, not a great option. [laughs]

Leah: Oh, yeah.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. If your password is "password," not a great choice.

Leah: Not good.

Nick: Yeah. Let's change that. So yeah, definitely the first thing you should do is stop the bleeding. So try to harden your accounts, try to get control of your accounts, like, try to stop the problem from continuing.

Leah: If you don't know, right now there are emails going out that genuinely look like invites.

Nick: Like a party, like, "Come to my party!"

Leah: Like a party invite. And you have to click the link just like you would for a Partyful or any of those things to get the details. And that's the hack.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Somehow they've gotten into your address book and they're emailing people in your address book who know you and think you've invited them to something. Which actually, when you think about us and our show, that's so diabolical.

Leah: It's diabolical.

Nick: Right? I mean, it's so clever on some level, but it's diabolical. You're taking advantage of my hospitality?

Leah: I—I do think they really were like, "What would really hurt?" You know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah. It would be like, come to my dog rescue event.

Leah: Yes. That's exactly what these are. And so I do think—I recently had a friend, they got this, they got tricked. I mean, who—it's a party invite and they posted on all their social medias, "I am not sending out invites. It's spam. Delete it."

Nick: "FYI, if you get a weird link, don't open it."

Leah: I would post it on my social media, and then I would text the people closest to my life who would most likely think that I was inviting them to something.

Nick: Yeah, that's a good move.

Leah: I was thinking about this because I recently messaged somebody to say, "Hey, did you send me this?" And they said, "Oh no, I got spammed and it's been sending this out." And I wanted to be like, "You should probably tell people."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, that's not good. I don't love that.

Leah: So I said, "Okay, thanks for letting me know, because I opened it. So I'm gonna tell people if they get this to not check it."

Nick: Right. I'll do your work for you. Don't worry about it.

Leah: But I just thought it was like, they were like, "Oh yeah, that happened." And you're like, "No, you gotta tell people."

Nick: Yeah, that's a little too casual.

Leah: It was too casual.

Nick: Like, I don't think we want to overexplain. I don't need the forensic analysis of what happened. And I don't need, like, some groveling apology tour either, but just like a, "Hey, so sorry this happened. Just be careful." Like just a heads up.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Just need a heads up.

Leah: That's exactly what it is. You don't need to be—it happens. We don't need to be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry!" Just let me know, "Hey, I did not invite you to the dog's party. It's spam." Okay. Thanks so much.

Nick: And if you do get a weird email asking, like, "Oh, have you been hacked?" I think that it is nice to give somebody a heads up that this might be happening to them if they're unaware yet.

Leah: Yeah, because sometimes people don't know that it's going out.

Nick: Right. But you do need to make sure that it really is a hack. Because, like, if somebody is like, "Oh my gosh, I'm getting married!" And then you're like, "Hey, I just got this really weird email, which is like, you're getting married? You've been hacked, right?" And they're like, "No. No, I am getting married." And you're like, "Oh." [laughs] So just make sure. Just make sure that it's really a hack.

Leah: I never would've thought of that, but I'm glad you brought it up, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] Can you imagine, though? You're like, "Wow, I just got this crazy email, Leah. It says you're getting married. Wow!"

Leah: You're like, "I thought you'd never figure it out. I assume this is a hack."

Nick: Clearly not you. So yeah, just double check. Just make sure.

Leah: I think that's a great addition, Nick.

Nick: And then I think we need to do our best to make sure it doesn't happen again. Like you do not want to be known as the person that, like, is always getting hacked. So, like, it is on some level impossible to make it 100 percent but, like, I think we want to do our best to get as close as possible.

Leah: I mean, it's really gotten—these things have gotten so good. Like, they look like the banks, they look—they call you, you know what I mean? Just click no links.

Nick: Well, actually you bring up a good point. I think there is a difference between notification when it's a professional thing. I think the bar is a little higher, because now I'm a little concerned as your client or your vendor, like, oh, do you have personal information that has been leaked? I'm a little more concerned than, like, oh, it's just a party invite that's spam.

Leah: Oh no, but I also meant, like, now when people phishing act like your bank, not that your bank is spamming you, but they're so good at all of these things that them pretending that they're your friend asking you to a party is like ...

Nick: Yeah. Before you mail gift cards to some weird PO box in somewhere that your friend doesn't live or wire money to some offshore bank account, yeah, I think it's worth just double-checking.

Leah: And I think it's more people—this is the world we live in now. If you get an email that you're like, I'm—I haven't heard from this person in a while, I'm gonna text them and say, did you send me something? That's fine.

Nick: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, there's no problem doing that. And I think that is courteous at the end of the day.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So be careful out there.

---

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is, quote, "I'd be grateful for your advice on how I might respond to a family situation. For the last 10 years, I have cared for a family member's children so that the parents can have a vacation alone. I take one or two weeks of annual leave and travel for six hours by train in each direction to reach them. I look after the children, the house and the pets—early mornings, late nights, laundry, the whole shebang. I enjoy the children's company, and I do it partly so we stay in touch as they grow up. I sometimes offer, sometimes I'm asked to do it. I usually get a box of candy bought at duty-free on the way home as a thank you. This year, nada. I just got a text to say thank you as they landed at the airport. I feel really hurt. I don't know them well enough to bring it up easily. I feel taken for granted, and I've heard from friends that this is quite common in this scenario. Any ideas? Wording for a message or a polite-but-direct conversation? Or just let it go and decide if it comes up next year how I feel?"

Leah: I can't tell if this person is doing this out of the kindness of their heart or if they're getting paid for this.

Nick: Oh. Oh, I don't think they're getting paid.

Leah: Which I would say makes a difference.

Nick: Oh, for sure. Oh, I mean, total difference.

Leah: I mean, I would say makes all the difference.

Nick: Yeah, there's no money here. No, I'm just doing it so that I can get to know your kids. Yeah. Oh, I don't like this.

Leah: Right? I'm not wrong, right? If somebody was like, "Hey, can you watch my kids for the week? I'll pay you. Can you just come up?" You leave work, you take the train.

Nick: No, I mean, you were getting paid in Toblerone but, like, even that's not happening anymore.

Leah: I think what is double weird, if I'm not being paid on some of these, it's saying sometimes I offer, sometimes I'm asked to do it. So it's like, would you message—would you call me and say, "Hey, can you take a week off of work and come stay with my kids? And I'm offering nothing in exchange?"

Nick: Kinda feels like that's what's happening.

Leah: Is that what's happening?

Nick: I think that's what's happening.

Leah: And I understand our letter-writer wants to have this, you know, relationship with these kids as they grow up. I totally get that.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I am missing work. I get two weeks of annual leave and I'm using one whole week.

Nick: Yeah, that's bonkers.

Leah: Are we reading this correctly?

Nick: I think we're reading it correctly. Another thing that also catches my eye, "I don't know them well enough to bring it up easily." For the last decade, you have been in their home taking care of their home and their children and the laundry, and you don't know them well enough? I mean, I guess they're not there when you're there, so I guess maybe that's true.

Leah: I'll say this thing. Sometimes we really want to have relationships with family, and obviously our letter-writer really cares about these kids. So I understand wanting to have a relationship with these kids, and doing whatever it is so you can spend this time with them. I get that part.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So if the relationship with the kids is the most important part—I mean, and it is clearly the most important part.

Nick: Yeah. I think that's the whole thing.

Leah: That's the whole thing. So as it seems like you're doing this out of the goodness of your own heart and because you want a relationship with these children, it definitely seems like the very least these people can do is get you something from duty-free.

Nick: Right. Yeah. I mean, to not even do that, and here's just a little text message, "Thanks," feels a little light for what's happening. Does not feel proportionate. And what you want is just the acknowledgement, just a little gratitude. Like, it's not about the candy, it's about being appreciated. That's what's missing.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And that's why you're hurt.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Because you're being taken for granted. Yeah. So yeah, I don't feel good about that. So I think it's up to you to decide how you want to proceed. I would say we don't have to do anything now, but I think I wouldn't offer again. I wouldn't go out of my way to bring it up. And if they bring it up, you could say, like, "I'd love to, but let's talk about ways to make it work for everybody, and let's put some terms on it. I'd be delighted to do it, but I need some reimbursement for some expenses here." Or "I'd love to do it but, like, I wasn't sure if you really appreciated it, because the last couple of times you didn't really acknowledge me in any way. Send me a text. That was kind of it. I didn't know how to feel about that." You could say that.

Leah: You could say that. I also think you could bring up, "Hey, I'm using half of my whole time off for the year to be there."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "And I'm doing it because I really love your kids."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then I think I really love Nick's line. I think then we throw it in, "You know, but let's find a way to make this work for everybody."

Nick: Yeah. Also, I think we need to find a term for that thing when you do a favor for somebody and it's kind of like a regular favor. Maybe it's like, oh, I always handle the snow in my neighbor's yard. Or, like, I always take care of the newspaper when my neighbor goes out of town. And they just sort of expect that you'll always do it. And now it feels like an obligation to do it, and they're no longer appreciative. They're just like assuming you will always do it. We need a term for this. When a favor becomes like this obligation and when you now just take it for granted.

Leah: I want the word to have the "taken for granted" in it.

Nick: Yeah. It has to have a flavor of being taken for granted, assuming I'm just gonna do this for you. Feeling like you're entitled to this favor.

Leah: Yes. It's feeling like you're entitled to it. Like I'm always just gonna be available to do this for you.

Nick: And often what happens is you get mad if I'm not. Like, oh, I'm not available to babysit your kids that week. I'm so sorry. And then, like, you're mad at me that I can't do this favor for you.

Leah: And I assume that's what they mean when they say, "I feel taken for granted for, and I've heard from friends that this is quite common." They're talking about this scenario where you're saying people do, because I don't know if I think it's quite common that somebody takes a week off every year to go take care of somebody's kids.

Nick: That part I really hope is not common. But yes, the idea of, like, oh, you do a favor for somebody regularly and they just assume like that's how it'll always be. And now you're obligated forever.

Leah: And if you're the person getting the favor, like I know I have friends who do things for me. I try really hard to every time they do it again, I treat it as if it's a new time. I thank them.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I get them a thing. You know, every time. I do not expect it every time, every time I ask them if it's okay, every time I do the thank you, I usually like to get some fun little gift.

Nick: Yeah, that's the way to do it. And it does often come up with babysitting, housesitting, petsitting, carpooling. Like, it does come up in those arenas very often.

Leah: And I would like to say, if you are getting paid ...

Nick: It's still nice to be appreciated.

Leah: It's nice to be appreciated, and you're still not obligated to do it. It doesn't mean, like, oh, I paid you, you've been compensated, I shouldn't appreciate the fact that you use half your time off every year to lovingly care for my children in my home.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, even if I paid you, I would still bring you a little something from duty-free.

Leah: Absolutely. Although I always think of that—what was that famous television show about the advertising industry in the '60s and '70s?

Nick: Mad Men?

Leah: About Mad—what year is that in?

Nick: The '60s.

Leah: Yeah. I'm thinking about Mad Men where she's like, "You never say thank you."

Nick: And he's like, "That's what the money is for!" Yeah, exactly. [laughs] So I mean, if you want a very Mad Men approach to this, I guess that works.

Leah: But I mean, you could—I love the term "make this work for everybody," because I think they've lost sight of the fact, very much so, how much you're helping their lives.

Nick: Yeah. No, you're really doing them a solid on this. So yeah, they should definitely step it up because yeah, if they had to actually hire someone to take care of their house and their kids for a week, oh, that's gonna be expensive.

Leah: Well, and it's not even just the money. It's like, you don't know.

Nick: Somebody they trust.

Leah: It has to be somebody you trust. You know, somebody you can rely on who's in your own home with your family. Like, it's a lot.

Nick: Can't put a price on that.

Leah: No.

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "I'm in a very not nice—" and she used a different term— "hotel in Paris. And they have slippers, very similar to the really thin typical spa slippers, but still slightly nicer somehow. Can I take them home? The internet seems to say yes, but I'm not sure."

Leah: My question is, are they gonna throw them out?

Nick: Yeah, these are single-use slippers. And so yeah, use them. Use them in the room or take them home.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Have at it. Yeah.

Leah: These are not reusable shoes.

Nick: Right. Yeah. They are free for you to take, but better choice would be to travel with your own slippers so that we can encourage all hotels around the world to stop offering these, because they are such landfill items. You can't recycle them. They're such a waste. And I think hotels should stop offering them. And I think if every person just traveled with their own flip-flops, as I do, as Leah, you hopefully do, or you'll be reminded to do now.

Leah: Well, I usually—I don't use the slippers. I usually use a thick—like a thick slipper sock.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I'm gonna start traveling with a flip-flop.

Nick: Yeah. I always toss flip-flops in my bag because very handy in a hotel room or who knows what's happening. So I always travel with that. And yeah, the slippers, I don't love the wastefulness of a lot of the hospitality industry. And so definitely these single-use slippers? Don't love it. But yes, you are free to take them.

Leah: Well, if you look at it this way, you have to take them because that way they're not just going in a landfill. They're going back with you. You're gonna use them back in your house.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, if you use them in the room, yeah, you open them or—like, yeah, clearly you have to take them or they're gonna throw them out. So take them.

Leah: I'm really glad that you brought that up, Nick, that we should be more aware of all of the sustainability of hospitality.

Nick: Oh, I mean, just think about your one hotel room, and then think about how many hotel rooms exist on the planet. There are so many! And so yeah, anything we can do to wash fewer towels, to not use single-use shampoos, all of that. Yeah. Anything we could do as consumers, you know, let's discourage the use of these single-use slippers. Yeah, I'm a big fan of all that.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So our next thing is some aftermath.

Leah: Aftermath!

Nick: So you may recall in a recent episode where we had a listener who wanted to grab a drink with somebody and then it never happened and then they moved out of town.

Leah: Was this the dry cleaner one?

Nick: Yes.

Leah: I have been thinking about it. So I'm very glad there's an aftermath.

Nick: Yeah. So the question was, okay, I was supposed to have a drink. I have moved out of town. I'm back in town for a little bit. I kind of want to see about that drink. How should I reach out to this dry cleaner person? Should I send them a message on LinkedIn? Because I found their LinkedIn. Should I show up in person? Like, what should I do? And so our advice is that you should call."

Leah: Call. And then if they're not working, don't leave a message.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Call and get them live. And so here is the aftermath. Quote, "Instead of calling or LinkedIn, I handwrote a letter—on stationery, of course—with my number. We did end up going out for drinks. It was thoroughly underwhelming, but better to know than to wonder."

Leah: So I guess they, out of town, sent a letter to the dry cleaner.

Nick: Or dropped off a note, like, on your first day in town, I guess. I'm assuming it's that. I can't imagine we mailed a letter.

Leah: No, they mailed a letter, because if I'm recalling correctly, Nick, they were only in town for one night.

Nick: Oh yeah, that was quick. Oh, we mailed a letter! Oh, how interesting! Hmm. Okay. Interesting. I don't know how I feel about that. [laughs] I don't know if I feel great about that, actually, to be honest. Letter-writer, I want to support you, but huh! [laughs] Leah's laughing over here.

Leah: [laughs] I'm laughing at Nick because he—I just—your response is so funny.

Nick: Yeah. Okay, we mailed a letter. Okay.

Leah: I also love it when our listeners get the treatment I get. I often get, "I don't know how I feel about that," letter-writers.

Nick: Yeah. No, Leah's very familiar with me questioning her choices.

Leah: I am so familiar with that. "I don't know how I feel about that." So welcome.

Nick: Yeah, bienvenido. Okay. Well, we used stationery. I mean, I guess—I mean, who am I to say, like, don't send a handwritten letter in the mail? Okay. Well, I do appreciate that you did reach out, because fortune favors the bold. And I'm sorry this was a wash. Is that a dry clean reference?

Leah: Oh, Nick!

Nick: Oh yeah. I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: But okay. It didn't work out. But I mean, yeah, you're right. It's better to know than to wonder. So I'm glad you did it.

Leah: And I enjoy the phrase, "It was thoroughly underwhelming."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I want to use that sometime this week. "I feel underwhelmed." It sort of—it feels like it needs a fan. You know what I mean?

Nick: Yes. Yeah, it does need a bit of an accessory for sure.

Leah: I'm glad that our letter-writer wrote because I have thought about this one, because you know what happens is you visualize the story. I visualized this dry cleaner. I visualized them going in. And the story is not closed. I can't close it.

Nick: No, we all need closure.

Leah: We need it! So I deeply appreciate this, and I appreciate that you just shot your shot and then you were like, this is not where I want my shot shot.

Nick: Exactly. So you out there, do you need some closure? Let us know! If you've ever heard something on our show where you're like, I need to know what happened. We're happy to reach out to them and see what's the aftermath. Or you can also send us your questions, or you can send us a vent, a repent or all the fun things we ask for. Send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message, (267) CALL-RBW.

Leah: And remember that Nick has now allowed, officially greenlit, that we will take dating questions.

Nick: Yep. Dating questions. I will still answer them through the lens of etiquette, but we will take them. So send them in.

Leah: Please send them in!

Nick: Yeah. Leah is desperate for this, so please send them in.

Leah: I mean, "desperate" is a harsh word.

Nick: Are you not?

Leah: I am enthusiastic about trying to come at dating etiquette the way we've come at other questions.

Nick: Okay, so there you have it. Send in those questions.

---

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I think we have a first-time situation happening on the Were You Raised By Wolves? podcast, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, this has never happened before. Leah and I were at the same place at the same time, and we would both like to repent.

Leah: We have a team repent.

Nick: Team repent. And golly, don't we feel bad? So set the scene. Paint the scene, Leah. Where were we?

Leah: Nick and I are on the Queen Mary 2.

Nick: Yes. As you recall, we were invited to do some shows aboard the Queen Mary 2. And so we did that.

Leah: And we had a delightful time!

Nick: Delightful time!

Leah: It was so lovely. And then we spent—you know, we developed relationships. We spent, you know, people came to our shows, they came to the workshops, we saw them on the ship. And because it was like a community, at that point, like, people recognized us.

Nick: Yes. The point of this is that we are pretty recognizable after seven nights on this ship. Yes.

Leah: As the etiquette people.

Nick: As the etiquette people, right. Yeah. Oh, it's the etiquette people. Right. So people know what we look like. And so it's our final morning, and we are disembarking. And I meet Leah on our floor, and we have all our luggage and we take the elevator down to Deck 2, which is where we will be exiting the ship. We have to do a passport check, of course, because this was an international voyage. And so the elevator doors open on 2, and there's a bit of a line. So now the question is oh, where is the back of the line?

Leah: And Nick and I are just—because we took a back elevator, which maybe moving forward, Nick and I should not take a back elevator. So we're at the place where the line is turning around.

Nick: Yes. There's some switchback near where we are, I think.

Leah: So we came out right in the middle of that. So what Nick and I think is we gotta find the end of the line.

Nick: We do, because that's obviously what you do. You don't cut lines.

Leah: That would be the most polite thing to do.

Nick: Correct.

Leah: What I think looking back, it was the way that people were handling it is you got into line wherever you came out.

Nick: Yes, that seems to be what it was. So if you got off an elevator, that's your spot in line now.

Leah: That's your spot in line. Nick and I ...

Nick: We didn't know that.

Leah: ... were trying to be the most polite.

Nick: Too polite, maybe.

Leah: So we decided to go down this middle of the wraparound to find the very end.

Nick: Right. So there's two lines of people in a narrow hallway, and we thought oh, we'll go in the middle to find the end of the line. So we start our way down the middle, but that is actually physically impossible, because you have people on either side with all their luggage, and there is not actually room in between to create a third lane. That's not possible. And we—I think how adorable of us that we thought we could do that.

Leah: And obviously people aren't thinking oh, these people are trying to find the very end of the line.

Nick: No, because I guess on some level, what an insane thing to try and do. [laughs]

Leah: Which is really what we were trying to do, but it looked like we were trying to cut. So we got a lot of, "Where do you think you're going?"

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I genuinely tried to explain, I was like, "We were trying to find the end of the line. So we didn't just want to step in where we were. And you know, which way do you suggest we go?" And, you know, but people were just not having it. And all Nick and I can—you know, we're just both standing there getting so red thinking, oh, you know, we had this great week with all these wonderful people and now they're like, look at the etiquette people trying to cut to the front.

Nick: Yeah, that was—that was really my concern. It's sort of like, oh, we had such a nice time and now our last memory of all these people are the etiquette people are cutting in line.

Leah: And we were genuinely looking for the back. We were genuinely ...

Nick: We really wanted to. Yes. All I could actually think as I was trying to self-soothe is that anybody who attended any of our shows or workshops or chatted with us and got to know us would know in our heart of hearts we would never cut the line. And so only the people that might've been mad at us actually might not actually know who we were. And so maybe there's some anonymity there. And so maybe we got away with it.

Leah: Well, we didn't get away with anything. I mean, we are ...

Nick: Ultimately, we just sort of actually got forced to join the line at some point because there was just nowhere else to be. And then it was sort of like, okay, we're here now. And so that's what happened. So at the end of the day ...

Leah: We are so sorry! We were really just trying to find the back. We were trying to do the most polite thing possible.

Nick: We really tried. And sometimes you fail. And we did, but we really tried our best. I can genuinely say we did try our best.

Leah: Oh, I just relived it for a moment.

Nick: I know. It's so terrifying. I mean, it's really my own personal nightmare.

Leah: It really is. And I mean, people on both sides are just eye-daggering you.

Nick: Yeah, the whole time. And I mean, luckily the line wasn't that long. Ultimately, we actually were off the ship pretty quickly. So I think it was quick, but it did feel endless.

Leah: Yeah, it ended up going so fast. It was just that moment of horror.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: That we ...

Nick: True horror.

Leah: Are we the line cutters?

Nick: And then once I exited the terminal and was waiting for the car, I didn't want to make eye contact with anybody.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I kind of wanted to just, like, hide behind a pole so nobody would see me. I was so embarrassed! I'm still embarrassed. So to all of those passengers, I'm so sorry.

Leah: And I also am so sorry.

Nick: I am genuinely sorry. It's not who I am.

Leah: We were really trying.

Nick: [laughs] We really were. So this is the first time we've ever had a double repent. Hopefully it'll be our last. And yeah, we really mean it.

Leah: Oh, my stomach is actually turning reliving that moment.

Nick: I know, it's really—it doesn't get worse than this, people.

Leah: And also imagine we were on a—we were gone for almost two weeks, so we had—and then we had multiple outfit changes for the shows. And so these are big suitcases we're going with.

Nick: Yeah, that's also that. Yeah. Yeah, we're not traveling light. Yeah, there's a lot of gear. Yeah. No, it's just none of it was good. None of it was good.

Leah: Nick had a duffel bag of pins and postcards the size of a small child.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's like a 200-liter duffel bag that was just full of, like, merchandise and Wolves stuff. Yeah. No, I was carrying a lot of stuff. No, the idea that I thought I could create a third lane in a narrow hallway? I mean, I guess that was just too early in the morning and my coffee hadn't kicked in. I mean, I really would have done that differently.

Leah: Well, the thing is is that if we had just stepped into line, we felt like we were cutting. So we just were like, let's go above and beyond.

Nick: Yeah, I guess that was our mistake. We were trying to be too nice.

Leah: And it just made it so much worse.

Nick: So that's our repent.

Leah: Oh, we're so sorry!

Nick: Sorry!

---

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned about knife rests, and I also learned that they are—they're really beautiful. And I like—I like them as art, table art.

Nick: Yes, they're beautiful objets. And I learned that you don't really like when I say, "I don't know how I feel about that."

Leah: Well, I do like what you just did with your tone right there to make it sound like when you say it, that's how you're saying it.

Nick: [laughs] Oh, is my tone different when I'm actually judgmental?

Leah: I love the retelling of this story, because that is not how it's said when it's said to me.

Nick: Okay. Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we need your etiquette crime reports. So go to EtiquetteCrime.com and let us know about an etiquette crime you've been the victim or witness to. We need your reports, so please send them in. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

---

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I would like to send a cordials of kindness out to my friend Jess. I'm not good at situations where I feel, oh, I'm—maybe I should be able to handle this, I shouldn't be getting this worked up. I don't like asking for help, I feel. And I needed help. And she caught it in my tone. I did a "hahaha."

Nick: Caught it in your tone via text.

Leah: Via text.

Nick: Yeah, that's a good friend.

Leah: So there was bees.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, explain what happened.

Leah: So we were in London in a heat wave.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: And I—my sleeping had not coordinated with the time zone. So I'm now—I've now not slept more than three hours a night for my third night.

Nick: Right.

Leah: So I am slightly insane. And then I get back to my hotel, which I loved, and they were so sweet, but there wasn't any air conditioning. And so I'm hot. And then I get into bed, what one wears when they're hot, which is not a lot of clothes. And there are bees.

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: And I have bee fear. I have bee trauma from a childhood incident.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And it's not like I can handle it like a person handles this. I can handle some very bad situations. Bees, I can't do it. I can't. I don't mean bees, excuse me, I mean wasps.

Nick: Yeah. No, I mean ...

Leah: I use bees and wasps interchangeably. They are not interchangeable. Wasps keep coming. Wasps are mean. I try to get them out of the room, I can't get them out. I try to hide in the bathroom, I hear them. I'm, like, in the corner and I text my friend, "Bees! Hahaha!"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And she jumped to action. She was, like, across town. She goes, "This feels like you're saying, 'Hey, I'm gonna lose my mind.'" Anyway, she—I would've lost my mind. I would've run screaming down the street in my underwear within the next 30 minutes. I was that close. So ...

Nick: She helped mobilize a hotel room.

Leah: She mobilized—because it was, like, 2:00 am. There was nobody to help me. So she's like, "We're gonna get you down the street in a hotel. We're gonna get there in the morning. We're gonna get the bees out. We're gonna get you in some air conditioning. We're gonna figure this out." And she handled the whole thing and I've never—I felt so taken care of. I cried. So I just want to say thank you so much to Jess. I don't do well needing help, and she really just jumped in there and handled the whole thing. And there it is. I admit it as a grown adult, I'm afraid of wasps. So there it is.

Nick: I think that's a totally reasonable thing to be afraid of.

Leah: But I mean, I grew up in Maine, you know what I mean? I should be able to handle it, but I was like, I can't. I don't even have pants on.

Nick: [laughs] And for me, I want to say thank you to everybody on the Queen Mary 2. Leah and I had an incredible week. It was so fun getting to know all the passengers. And the crew was great. The people we were working with were super friendly and helpful and nice and encouraging. And we just had the best time. Like, it was just the best week. And so I just want to say thank you to everybody we met and who helped us. Like, thank you.

Leah: Also, I would like to thank whoever got involved to make that tea available for gluten-free people.

Nick: Sure. Yeah, thanks to the catering for all the gluten-free options. Yeah, so we just had the best time. So thank you.

Leah: Thank you for having us.