Turning Tables, Finding Lost Wallets, Boxing Up Free Desserts, and More

Nick: Do you not turn when told? Do you keep things that don't belong to you? Do you ask for your cake to go? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out.

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Ooh, let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about turning the table.

Leah: Uh, already? Metaphorically? Literally? I mean, what's happening?

Nick: [laughs] So not turning the tables—although that is my favorite thing.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: No, I'm talking about turning the table. Have you heard of this? Do we know what this is?

Leah: Are we changing over the table?

Nick: Kinda. And you might be familiar because this does come up in, like, Jane Austen novels. So what this is, it's a Victorian era thing, although it did last until, like, the 1950s. And there's still a form of it today, but not in the same way. And what this is, is I'm having a dinner party and I'm gonna talk to you. You're seated next to me. You're on my right. We're gonna chat, chat, chat. And then as the host of this event, I'm going to stop talking to you. I'm going to turn to the other person and everyone around the table has to switch partners.

Leah: So they face the other person or everybody has to move?

Nick: No, no, we don't have to move seats, but we do have to turn our bodies. And now the conversation we're having is with the other person. We have turned the table. The table has turned.

Leah: Oh, okay. The table has turned. Okay. What if we were talking to both people equally the whole evening?

Nick: No, that's not how this works. No, you are dedicated to one person for that conversation.

Leah: Oh, okay. And then, so I guess we follow our host, like which way we start with?

Nick: Yes. Now traditionally the host would start with the person on their right because that would be the guest of honor. And so they would begin the meal talking to that person. And so then all the other pairs around the table would need to then talk to the person that is available to them in order. Correct. And then we would switch.

Leah: Oh, I'm just imagining myself at one of these events and I'm like, "Oh, the host is turning. We're turning! We're turning!

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly! And when this happens, it's kind of up to the host, but at a normal meal that would be, like, three or four courses, you would probably only turn once. So first and second course, I'm talking to the person on the right, and then third and fourth course, I'm gonna switch to talk to the other person. If it's like a 14-course meal, we might do two turns. And so you just kind of want to space it out, but like midway through the meal, there should be a turn. And if the meal's really long, then yeah. Turn accordingly.

Leah: Can you imagine the social drama if, uh, the host just gave one person, like, just very little time, and then turned and then never turned back? You would be like, [gasps]

Nick: I mean, that would be the talk of the town. Yes.

Leah: That would be the talk!

Nick: And sometimes people become so engrossed in conversation that they don't want to turn and you have to break them up. And Emily Post says, quote, "At some point, the hostess has to come to the rescue by attracting the blocking lady's attention and saying, 'Sally, you cannot talk to Professor Bougie any longer. Mr. Smith has been trying his best to attract your attention.'"

Leah: I mean, this honestly feels—it feels like we could write a novel right now.

Nick: Note that we're blaming the lady in this story for talking too long. Like, how interesting, Emily. It wasn't Professor Bougie that's the problem.

Leah: Well, my guess is that A) very good point; and B) but it could also be that the lady is like, "I really don't want to talk to this other guy. Please don't make me talk to this other guy. Don't make me do it."

Nick: Well, Emily says, "To persist in carrying on their own conversation at the expense of others would be inexcusably rude, not only to their hostess, but to everyone present."

Leah: Because I can imagine that if somebody was talking to me and it was just like talkity talk, talk, talk, and in my mind I was like, too much, I would be so excited to turn.

Nick: Yes. I love the idea of turning the table, because I have been at dinner parties where you are talking to somebody and it's not the person you really want to be talking to for whatever reason. And you do feel obligated to share your time with the people around you. So a little conversation to the left, a little conversation to the right, a little conversation across. And if we all just did this, I would know that my time with this person will come to an end. And I do find comfort in that.

Leah: Yeah, there's actually something very lovely about being like, I'm not in control of this. I'm gonna get to turn in a second.

Nick: Yeah, and actually there's a great story that I came across which is you are obligated to talk to the person even if they're your enemy. I think this is in the Emily Post book as well. And so she tells a story about how two people who did not like each other were obligated to talk to each other during this turn. And one of them says to the other, like, "I have nothing to say to you, and so I will recite my multiplication tables."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And so that's what he did during his turn.

Leah: Oh, I just want to start writing a novel right now.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's so great. Yeah. And this rule does exist in a modified form, which is like, you do need to talk to the people around you at a dinner party. Like, that rule still exists, but I kind of like the formal way this is done.

Leah: Me too. I can imagine you actually having a party, and then we do it at your party with your new napkins.

Nick: Oh yes. Yeah, Leah recently got me some napkins. And so this would be perfect. This would be a perfect napkin accompaniment to turn tables. Yeah. No, I think this is homework for everybody. This is your homework. You need to have a dinner party of some sort, and you need to try this where the first and second course, you talk to one person and then we turn and we do the other and see how it goes. Maybe it's something we should bring back.

Leah: Well, it's so choreographed because in your mind you can see everybody just slowly turning their whole physicality the other direction.

Nick: Yeah. Well, you could be like, "Oh, it was nice chatting with you." And now we're off to the next course and we rotate. Yeah. No, there's something kind of lovely. I mean, is it stuffy? I guess it's a little stuffy, but I don't know. There's something I like about it.

Leah: We'll say stuffy, but make it fun.

Nick: Stuffy, but make it fun. Yeah. I mean, it should always be fun. A dinner party should ideally always be enjoyable. If it's not, then what are we doing?

Leah: What are we doing? Well, I'm really visualizing a synchronized swimming move where everybody says thank you, and then they're all sort of, it's like shoulder, shoulder, shoulder, shoulder down the table.

Nick: Yes! And I would love to see it. And it does require you to have an even number of guests. So that, I guess, is one flaw.

Leah: And then if it's uneven, you get that fake cat out, you put it down.

Nick: Oh yes, we get Casper.

Leah: And then people have to talk to an inanimate object.

Nick: I mean, compared to some of the people I've talked to at dinner parties, I would much prefer an inanimate cat sculpture.

Leah: I was gonna say, my guess is that they're a better conversationalist than a lot of the people.

Nick: For sure. So turn the tables.

Leah: I love it!

---

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep into the lost and found.

Nick: That's right. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about what to do when you find someone's wallet.

Leah: Which this seems to be happening over here a lot. So I think ...

Nick: Oh, really? Just tons of lost wallets all over Los Angeles?

Leah: Wallets. And then also like a random license on the street.

Nick: Okay. Oh, how interesting!

Leah: Both Dustin and I have come across random licenses recently.

Nick: I mean, what's so interesting is that you all are driving everywhere, and so the percentage of time you spend on the street is so much lower than in other places.

Leah: No, because we're in Hollywood.

Nick: Oh, okay. So we're just dropping stuff all over the place.

Leah: So many people walk. We got Runyon, we got the stars.

Nick: Okay. You're in a walking neighborhood. Okay. So this is happening. So you're seeing this?

Leah: Yes. And my friend just lost their wallet last week. So this was a great ...

Nick: And what happened?

Leah: Well, they lost it. Full panic. I was getting all the texts.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And a lovely per—they lost it at the gym.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: A person brought it up to the desk and then they were like—this person. And so because they had their name, they could look up their number and they called them.

Nick: Okay. So that's a great segue to the first topic, which is if you find something, what should you do with it? And the first thing you should do is, where are we? And is there a higher authority? So, like, at a gym, if you find a wallet at the gym, yeah, turning it into the desk, like that's the move.

Leah: Yeah, because they have all that person's information and can just call them.

Nick: Or at an airport, we would turn it into the airport lost and found and have them sort that out, or to the airline desk.

Leah: Although I will say somebody turned in my mother's phone to the airline lost and found, and we watched on her GPS as it got moved into some kind of port, and then somebody put it in their car and drove it away.

Nick: Okay. All right. Well, So all right, well, the idea though is you should turn it in if there's an obvious place to turn something in.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So if it's outdoors though, okay.

Leah: I think we want to—and not in a I'm just gonna figure out your whole personal life, look in the wallet and see is there a way that we can communicate with this person?

Nick: Right. Are there any clues available to us?

Leah: We just get our Nancy Drew on and we go what can I find in here that will help me find this person either on the interwebs or a phone number?

Nick: And the idea of finders keepers, this does not apply.

Leah: No, do we even have to bring that up? We're not keeping people's wallets, Nick.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we have to bring this up just—just to be clear.

Leah: There is no finders keepers, losers weepers in this.

Nick: Yeah, yeah. We're not doing that. So yeah, we do need to try to make an effort. And with the amount of personal information that is available on all of us online, you should be able to probably at least get an Instagram to DM. Like, you should probably be able to figure out some way to get in touch with them.

Leah: Yeah, when I found—I found somebody's medication.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: I think I've talked about this before. And I called them immediately because you need—and that's on there, people need their medication.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leah: But I also found something—I'm trying to remember what it was because it wasn't a license, because on the license people have their addresses, but I found them on Instagram and I DM'd them.

Nick: Yeah, I think that's nice, for sure.

Leah: Oh, and when I found them, because—which I believe I've discussed on here, at one time I found something and I felt that the people thought that it was some kind of a grift or I wanted something from them.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And they were very suspicious of me. And so to head that off, in this last grouping, I messaged the person, "Hey, I found your wallet." I say where I found it, because this is where I was walking up by Runyon.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: "I can just pop it in the mail and send it to you. How would you like to handle this? Let me know." And then I'm giving them all the information. I don't want anything. This is where I found it. Up to you.

Nick: But this suspicious reaction is actually very common. Somebody actually asked Miss Manners about this. Somebody had found a wallet and there was no money in it, and they reunited it with the person who was expecting money to be in there. They assumed the person finding the wallet stole all the money. They gave them a dusty bottle of wine as a thank you. And were just, like, a little suspicious the entire time. And the letter writer was like, "Miss Manners, like, did I do something wrong? Like, what could I do differently?" And Miss Manners was like, "No, you can't do anything. You did the right thing. And, like, oh well, it's too bad that humanity is just looking at the worst in everybody sometimes."

Leah: Yeah. Obviously if somebody stole your cash out of it, they're not the person returning it.

Nick: I mean, what an elaborate hoax, right? Like, oh, I just took all the cash, but I'm gonna at least give you back your credit cards?

Leah: I mean, I guess some people do that, but I think we assume that the person—we can just say thank you. But I understand why they were suspicious. There's a lot of, like, spamming, a lot of grifting going on.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Fine. I was just trying to be helpful.

Nick: Yeah. No, have your guard up. Sure. And also, you know, some stranger having your home address and all your ID, like, that's not a comfortable thing.

Leah: Yeah, I understand.

Nick: In some of the etiquette books of yore, they do talk about giving a reward when somebody finds and returns something to you. And so I guess there's this idea of, like, oh, should I give 10 percent of the value?

Leah: Well, everything I've found has never had money. It's always been, like, IDs, which is ostensibly significantly more ...

Nick: Certainly value. I mean, how much is your time having to go back to the DMV?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Like, there's value there.

Leah: But I've never wanted anything. I just wanted to get it back to the person.

Nick: Yes. You should not be returning lost objects for the sake of reward. I mean, that should not—that should not be your goal.

Leah: And I don't know if somebody returned something to me and they were standing there and I felt like I should tip them out. Is that what the ...

Nick: They'd, like, had their hand out?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Like a bellhop? Yeah. I mean, it would not necessarily occur to me to be like, "Oh, here's some cash." I mean, if they went to a lot of trouble, they took an Uber to get to me, or if they actually, like, did something, would I give them nothing? I would want to give them more than just thanks.

Leah: Well, A) I would be like, let me pay for an Uber to get—or put it in an Uber and I'll pay for it.

Nick: Yeah, I would definitely—I would hate for somebody to have put themselves out for me and then, like, get nothing to compensate them for their time and effort. So I guess the question is is a thank you enough compensation, or would we need to make them whole in some other way? I guess it depends on what happened.

Leah: Because I've returned things to people near me, you know, because they lost it here. And it's no big deal. Oh, I walked down the block?

Nick: Right. I once actually found a woman's binder of medical records. Have I talked about this?

Leah: No.

Nick: And this—yeah, I was at a bus stop and it was about to rain.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so it was sort of like, oh, I shouldn't leave this binder here because it will get ruined. And so I—and it was like a five-inch binder, so many medical records.

Leah: So much work.

Nick: And this woman could not have had more phone numbers that come up on Google, and could not have had more phone numbers that are no longer in service.

Leah: Oh no!

Nick: Like, this person did not exist anymore. But what I did find is she was a member of a union. She had union health insurance, and that union is based in New York City and they have, like, a headquarters in Midtown. And so I did take this binder to the union headquarters. I was like, "Hi, one of your members, like this is somebody I think you know, can you help?" And they're like, "Okay." And so they sorted that out. But, like, it was like a week. It was like a whole week of my life where I was trying to find this person. And it was like, I gave up. But then I was like, okay, I'll just bring it to the union.

Leah: I think that's very wonderful of you, Nick.

Nick: Right? And I got nothing, but I'm okay with that.

Leah: No, but you didn't get nothing.

Nick: Oh, I got satisfaction?

Leah: No, you did the right thing. And people recognize that in you, and they think Nick's a good person.

Nick: That's true. Yes. Okay. I do—I do get the satisfaction of knowing that I did a good thing. That's true.

Leah: Well, it's not even that. It's just that you're a good person and people can trust you.

Nick: Yes, that is true. So if I found a wallet, I would absolutely return it, because also, I mean, talk about golden rule. I mean, what would you want to have happen if you lost your wallet? Right? I mean, of course I would love for somebody to make an effort to try and get it back to me.

Leah: Yeah. And you know, a lot of times people are traveling when they lose things and you're like, I gotta go through an airport.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's when it happens, when you're focused on something else, you're spaced out. Yeah. I mean, it's never when you're at your best when you lose your wallet.

Leah: Yeah. Never. Never!

Nick: So hopefully it never happens to any of you, but if it does, hopefully some kind person will find you. And if you find somebody's wallet, hopefully you'll do the same.

Leah: And I know our listeners, of course they will.

Nick: Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, that would be shocking.

Leah: I honestly wouldn't believe it.

Nick: I would have a hard time believing that one of our listeners would find a wallet and would keep it. Actually, if you're that person, stop listening right now. You don't deserve our podcast.

Leah: Whoo! Nick, they don't—they're—we do not have that person.

Nick: [laughs] No, that's why I feel very comfortable saying that.

Leah: And I think that is a really good wish when we want things for people. We go, may—if you ever lose anything, somebody find it and return it to you immediately.

Nick: Yes, this is the essence of etiquette.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Yes, consideration for others.

---

Leah: And we're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is, quote, "My friend and I—let's call her Lisa—have a tradition where every year on her birthday I take her out for a meal. This year she chose a lovely restaurant, and when our server introduced himself, he asked, 'Are you celebrating anything special today?' To which I replied, 'Yes, Lisa's birthday.' The server said, 'Well then, make sure you check out our dessert menu because dessert will be on us.' How nice of him! After we finished our meal, our server came over and asked Lisa, 'And which dessert have you decided on?' To which Lisa replied, 'I'll have the chocolate lava cake, and I'll have it to go.' I was instantly embarrassed and felt an etiquette rule had been breached, but I can't put my finger on what specifically was wrong about Lisa's request. Was it that I assume the restaurant benefits by giving a guest a free dessert, because other patrons see it en route or on the table and it helps to sell more? Was it that I was disappointed that I didn't get to share the delicious lava cake, especially since I was paying for the entire meal? Or does Lisa absolutely have the right to request that the restaurant box up the cake in the kitchen and deliver the brown to-go bag to the table, never to be seen by anyone but Lisa in the comfort of her home?"

Leah: Two points really quick up top. One, this is a great question because it does feel weird.

Nick: It does feel weird. It does.

Leah: And then the second is that I love that our letter-writer does this thing that I do, which is, do I feel weird because A, or does it feel weird because B, or am I upset because C? You know, you're like, which is the thing that's hitting?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: That's hitting wrong for me?

Nick: Yeah. And I gotta say, I don't know what's hitting wrong for me.

Leah: It's hard to figure it out.

Nick: Yeah. I really gave this a lot of thought. Like, what is not right? Because we agree it's not right. That lava cake should have been enjoyed in the restaurant, right?

Leah: Yes. And saying that we know it's their birthday, so technically they can, but also it's—but it feels wrong.

Nick: Right. And also it's like Lisa wasn't obligated to share the cake with me, so it's not like I missed out. But yeah, there is something about taking the free cake to—and is it that it's free? Because it's free to Lisa either way because it was her birthday. So whether or not I as the host paid for it or the restaurant, it's still free to Lisa. Yeah, so that detail, yeah, she's taking something for later. Hmm. Maybe that's part of it. It's that my hospitality extends to this meal. And what you've done is asked me to pay for something outside of the hospitality event, so now I'm just buying you free cake."

Leah: But she's not technically paying for this.

Nick: But it's part of the umbrella hosting that I'm doing.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I brought you to a place and cake is happening, and you've decided you don't want this hospitality.

Leah: And I think it's more than the money. It's that this was a shared ...

Nick: Oh, it's not the money.

Leah: It's not the money. It was a shared event.

Nick: Okay. Something communal about the cake?

Leah: I invited you to celebrate you, to share in this. And then you were like, "I'm gonna do this closing ceremony without you."

Nick: Oh, the idea of the button being solo. That's true. The event needed a button.

Leah: Well, it's sort of like you left halfway through.

Nick: Right. You didn't see it to the finish line.

Leah: And then I think it's extra, because our letter-writer also feels the feelings—which I can appreciate—of the restaurant where they're like, the restaurant is giving you this free dessert as a part of your celebration. And you're basically being like, "Yeah, box it up in the back."

Nick: Yeah, I guess the cake is part of this whole spirit of birthday celebration. And so the cake should have been enjoyed in that same spirit. And now it's not gonna be. And I guess that's the problem.

Leah: And there wasn't a conversation like, "I'm so full, but I would love—do you mind if I bring it home?"

Nick: Right. Okay. That might have made me feel better. Would that make me feel better? Yes.

Leah: This is our host. She is paying for everything. She's set it up. She's—and then so there was no, like, Hey, this is us together. There was no communication.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I also would have felt better if Lisa—because this is ostensibly the dessert that we're sharing.

Nick: I mean, are we? I mean, if we're doing one dessert for the table. Right. I mean, of course I'm gonna get a bite. Right?

Leah: Yes. So I would say I was thinking of the lava cake. You know, the idea wasn't even discussed with me. Would you like a bite? Do you like lava cake?

Nick: Yeah. Actually, I think that's it. The idea that Lisa was gonna share the cake with me, yeah, of course. And now I don't get cake and now you're taking it home. And it was free cake, which I'm kind of excited about, even though it's not my birthday.

Leah: But Lisa clearly wasn't gonna share it because she didn't even ask you if you like lava cake.

Nick: That's it. That's it.

Leah: She didn't even say, "Are you a fan?" She just—because there was—they brought the menu. There's, like, five desserts. There was no discussion of, "Oh, they got an apple pie, which do you think?" You know, there was no, like, it's an us thing. It was just a me thing.

Nick: I would be okay with a, "Oh, I want the lava cake for my birthday," and not consulting you on the dessert choice. But at least then you're there to enjoy it with me. But yeah, it's that you just took the cake and I didn't get any dessert.

Leah: I didn't get any dessert. I didn't get asked if I liked it. I didn't get asked if I wanted a bite. Nothing.

Nick: That's it. That's the problem. Okay, that's it. That's the whole problem, that Lisa was, should we say selfish? A little selfish.

Leah: I mean, it's hard for us to say because it's her—your birthday is your day, but it's like ...

Nick: No, there's still other people who exist on your birthday.

Leah: Come on!

Nick: Yeah. Okay, so that's the issue. I think it would've been okay to take it to go had there been conversation about it. And then you could have been like, "Oh, but I wanted dessert." In which case, I guess you could have ordered a dessert and then Lisa just gets an extra dessert to go.

Leah: But I mean, it's also like you could have ordered it and then not eaten it all and put it into a go box. Like, why do you gotta ...

Nick: Yeah, just have a bite and do the thing. That's all. Yeah, so your other point about how we need to finish the celebration, put a button on this. Yeah, that's also key. We needed to do the complete event, see it through the finish line, run through the tape.

Leah: Yes. And then take it home at the end.

Nick: Right. This is like leaving a wedding before the cake's cut. Yeah.

Leah: It's weird!

Nick: Actually, this is like leaving a wedding before the cake's cut and asking for a to-go box.

Leah: I think it'd be so funny if our letter-writer was like, "Okay, I'm gonna actually order something. So you go ahead and go. I'm gonna stay and have some cake."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I love that what's happened is that Nick and I've been like,"Yyou know what irritates me? It's this, but it's also this. And you know what? It's this thing, too."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: It's all of these things.

Nick: Well, I mean, it is possible for multiple things to be irritating at the same time.

Leah: It really is.

Nick: For sure.

Leah: It really is.

Nick: So letter-writer, you are so well within your rights to be annoyed by this. And I think just note this for next year. This is an annual event. So just know that Lisa's capable of this.

Leah: And it's such a good reminder that, like, everything is okay. You just need to communicate.

Nick: Isn't that a great lesson? Yeah. Communication. Just so we're all clear what's happening.

Leah: "Hey, I'd love to get the lava cake. I'd like to take it to go, but I don't want you to rush. I'm happy to sit here. I'm just super full. Do you want something? Let's get some decaf." You know what I mean? All of it. Fine. Just don't abruptly end the night for everybody.

Nick: Yeah. "Check, please." Yeah. Rude.

Leah: "Check, please. She'll take it."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. That is exactly—that's exactly how that landed. Yep. "She's got this."

Leah: Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "In my eighth grade class, there's a boy that loves to make everyone's lives very hard. He will be an absolute jerk correcting someone, and he loves to walk slowly in front of people in the hallway—especially me. Obviously, I was annoyed, but he turned it around to make me look silly. How do I deal with a person like this?"

Leah: It's been my experience with bullies that much like fires love air to just get bigger and grow ...

Nick: Ah. Okay, I see where we're going.

Leah: ... a bully loves a reaction, attention. They want to see you aggrieved. It gives them their joie de vivre.

Nick: Yeah, raison d'être.

Leah: So we got bullies all through life.

Nick: Yeah. Actually, that's what I wrote down. "Get ready, kid. You'll be dealing with this your whole life." End quote.

Leah: They're everywhere.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, this doesn't get better, easier or different. Yeah.

Leah: I just recently had one and I was like, oh, we're still doing this. Great.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, it is true. Don't play the game. Don't feed the beast. Don't give the fire oxygen.

Leah: And just as little of, like a, "Ugh." You know, obviously you have to acknowledge that they stopped walking in front of you, they do something. You just sort of look at them like, "Oh my—here we go." And then you just move on to the next thing.

Nick: And I think it's important to try—even though it's hard—try to realize that this behavior comes from a place of such insecurity. And so to try to have some empathy and compassion for this person, because unless they turn it around, they're in for a real long slog for the rest of their life if they act like this.

Leah: Sometimes it's hard to remember that.

Nick: Oh yeah. Oh, so easy for me to say. So difficult to do in practice. But nobody who's super confident in themselves and their abilities and their relationships is acting like this.

Leah: No, and it's the same for the internet. People who are bullying, criticizing, they're not doing what they love.

Nick: No, no. So if you could keep that in mind, that's helpful. But, you know, easier said than done.

Leah: But also, if you can't keep that in mind and you're sort of like, well, everybody feels insecure, and why do I have to be compassionate to this person who's not being compassionate to me?

Nick: Fair.

Leah: The best way to make them go away is to act the same way, just to act, like, whatever, because they really are looking to get a rise out of you.

Nick: Yeah. The calmer and more unbothered you can be, the better, because the person that stays sort of level, unflappable, they look reasonable. And the person that's, like, working so hard to get a rise out of you, like, everybody sees that for what it is.

Leah: And I mean, they're doing it to everybody.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: So it's not like people don't know.

Nick: And if you are getting singled out, then yes, escalate it. So we would escalate it to a teacher or a counselor or a parent here, or later in life you escalate it to HR or some other higher authority. Like, you know, there are times when it is appropriate to escalate.

Leah: I do think it's fair to say, "Hey, I don't really like bullying."

Nick: That's fair to say. Yeah. "Excuse me," as we walk around them as they're walking slowly in the hallway.

Leah: "Sorry, bullying's not really my thing."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's not wrong. I mean, I think your mileage may vary, so you're just gonna have to sort of read the room and feel this out. But I think the broader idea of just like, don't give a fire more oxygen? I think that's definitely a good place to start.

Leah: Yeah. Because what they're looking for is attention.

Nick: Yeah. So our next question is, quote, "I could normally come up with some sort of idea with what a dress code in general could mean, but I feel pretty lost with this one. If it's helpful at all, the invitation has a disco ball at the top of it." And so this letter-writer sent us a copy of this invitation, which I gotta say, this is my new favorite thing of our listeners sending us invitations with weird dress codes and us figuring out what it means.

Leah: This one, I feel like I really got the vibe though with the invitation.

Nick: Did you?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I did not at all! There's nothing on the invitation.

Leah: That font, those colors?

Nick: What? No, I mean, it's orange and yellow and there's like a little wavy border. That font? Okay. I mean, I guess the font is sort of jaunty?

Leah: I would call that red and orange.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then the wording is "garden, funky, formal."

Nick: Right. Yes, that is our official dress code. And there's no other clues on this.

Leah: Well, I would say the font is a clue.

Nick: Okay. And this font ...

Leah: Is funky. And by funky, like a '60s, '70s vibe.

Nick: I don't know if it actually reads to me like that, but yes, that is what they were going for.

Leah: Well, that's what I got. And so I got garden. We're gonna be outside.

Nick: Yes. Okay.

Leah: Funky. Little fun and funky with the colors and the font. They mean '60s, '70s, like disco.

Nick: Okay, sure.

Leah: Formal.

Nick: That's where it gets into trouble.

Leah: Dress it up a little bit.

Nick: Okay, so that's your—that's your take?

Leah: Like, not jeans funky.

Nick: So what are we wearing?

Leah: Like, not your bell-bottoms funky.

Nick: Okay. Well, bell-bottoms in a silk charmeuse fabric.

Leah: On the nose, Nick.

Nick: Okay. [laughs] Is silk charmeuse a fabric?

Leah: But I think you could do like a man could do like a black pant.

Nick: A black pant for a garden party, Leah? Are you insane?

Leah: Well, you gotta have a pant that's not a bell-bottom. So I'm focusing on the shirt.

Nick: Okay, so you're really leaning in on 1970s funk. You're really taking inspiration from this disco ball.

Leah: It's the font and the colors.

Nick: Earth, Wind & Fire, September.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: James Brown.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Cold Sweat. Okay.

Leah: And then I know it's a garden, so it's gonna be a little airy.

Nick: Yes. I mean, that's lighter colors, that's floral prints. That's shoes you can stand in grass on. Okay. The formal thing is what really throws me.

Leah: I just think they don't mean—they mean no jeans.

Nick: Okay. I mean, that's not what formal means, but okay.

Leah: It does in this situation.

Nick: [laughs] Well, that's what is confusing because like, formal would be tux if it's evening, although it's a daytime garden, so I guess it's a morning suit. So now I'm wearing a morning suit in a pastel? Is that what I'm doing? Pastel linen?

Leah: I think you could wear a pastel suit, for sure, like a baby blue?

Nick: And then I need to have, like, something funky as a wild card. Is that what I'm doing?

Leah: Like a funky shoe, like maybe a shoe with, like, a big buckle.

Nick: Oh, like a platform?

Leah: Yes, yes, yes, Nick.

Nick: Okay. So you see how this is totally bonkers.

Leah: It's bonkers. But I personally think it's a good time because I feel like when people do this with their invitation, their goal isn't to confuse. Their goal is to make it fun. So because of that, you're gonna get a little leeway that if you step out, you're like, "This is what I understood from your invitation." So that's why I think a man could wear, like, just a nice pant with, like, a bell-bottomy silk shirt, even though I understand that's not formal, with, like, a nice shoe and be like, this is my dressed up garden funky.

Nick: Yeah. So that's garden funky. Got it. It's when we want to make it formal. So now I'm throwing a jacket on it?

Leah: No, you're not throwing a jacket. You're just not wearing jeans.

Nick: I'm just—oh, so for you, formal is ABJ, anything-but-jeans.

Leah: Anything but jeans. And for the women, you're not wearing your low-rise jeans either. You're gonna have like one of the—you're either gonna have, like, a nice pant.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Or one of those, like—what's that drop dress? The drop waist dress with a little bow.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: A little funky. You know what I mean?

Nick: So my first thought when I saw this though, was, you know, like, how mushrooms sometimes have a funky smell? I was thinking, like, oh, maybe this is like a mushroom party.

Leah: No.

Nick: A formal mushroom party.

Leah: But the thing is is that that's obviously wrong. But you could wear that and then be like, "Oh, that's what I understood."

Nick: And be like, "I thought this was a mushroom party." [laughs]

Leah: That's what I thought you meant by funky.

Nick: Right? Or it's like all natural wines.

Leah: It's like you're purposely misreading it, but I think that that's allowed because they made it open like that.

Nick: So I think for me, I would start with formal. So I'm wearing a suit. And it's garden, so I'm gonna make sure I have the right shoes and I'm gonna make sure it's the right daytime fabrics. And then for funky, I think that's where I'm gonna go with my color choice. So my shirt, I guess, my bow tie, my corsage, pin, brooch.

Leah: Your shoes and socks.

Nick: Shoes and socks. Okay. A little funky. Okay. Maybe for women, maybe this is where we bring in the fascinator.

Leah: I like that Nick starts with formal. I start with funky.

Nick: Well, because the words "garden" and "funky" are modifying the word formal to me.

Leah: No, I understand that. And that does make sense.

Nick: Those are the modifications. For you, this is a funky party that's in the garden.

Leah: That needs to be a little formal.

Nick: Yeah, a little dressy. A little dressed up funky party in the garden.

Leah: But I think either way you're gonna be in the zeitgeist, you know?

Nick: Uh, would I go that far? I don't know.

Leah: And it's—if people aren't, it's the people who wrote the invitation's fault.

Nick: And was this a wedding? I think this is just a regular party. Is this a wedding? What is this? Because when I first saw it, it says "The Deets at the Top," and I thought that's the people getting married. It's the Deets?

Leah: Like, the details.

Nick: Well, now I know it's the details, but I thought it was like Mr. and Mrs. Deets.

Leah: That's hilarious. You know what is funny is that I did read that in my mind it was a wedding. I think it's just a party.

Nick: Okay. Oh, so does that change anything?

Leah: It does. It makes it less formal.

Nick: No, but they have hotel room blocks available at two locations.

Leah: Yes. That's why I thought it was a wedding. It's a wedding!

Nick: It's a wedding. It is a wedding. Okay. So I mean, what are the bride and groom gonna wear?

Leah: Well, they're gonna wear funky. [laughs]

Nick: They sure are. So thank you, letter-writer, for sending this in. This is my favorite thing, figuring out dress codes that make no sense.

Leah: Can you please send us a picture of what you wore?

Nick: Oh yes. Yeah, please send us a photo of what you wore and then send us photos from the event.

Leah: Please!

Nick: What other people wore. And then also we need to see the bride and groom. And so we definitely—we need to get some closure on this.

Leah: I would also like to get a pic of the table setting if it's not too much to ask.

Nick: Oh, I need to get the whole theme. No, I mean, clearly we need signature cocktails. There better be thematic music at this event.

Leah: Oh, there—I was thinking they're walking down the aisle to "Stayin' Alive."

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So yeah, I need the whole picture. So letter-writer, please send that in. And you out there, have you gotten any invitations with weird dress codes? Let us know! And of course, we'll take all your questions, vents, repents, et cetera, et cetera. Send it to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message, (267) CALL-RBW.

---

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Nick, I'm gonna repent.

Nick: Okay. What has happened?

Leah: Well, I'm actually—it's a—it's an apology to you, Nick.

Nick: Oh, I don't know what you did, but delighted to get the apology.

Leah: Oh, thank God. Because if you were like, "I have a few things."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, like, which one, Leah?

Leah: So we have discussed we should always call people by what they like to be called.

Nick: Sure. Yes.

Leah: And I know that you prefer to be called Nick Leighton.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And I have noticed that when I do an exclamation in mock horror ...

Nick: Oh, yes.

Leah: ... or when you say something I find to be slightly egregious.

Nick: [laughs] You call me by my government name.

Leah: I go, "Nicholas Leighton!"

Nick: That's true.

Leah: And I said it recently. And as I was saying that, I was like, he doesn't like to be called Nicholas.

Nick: Well, you're doing it for comedic effect, and so that does get a pass because it's for the greater good.

Leah: But still not very nice of me, and not intentionally not nice, but you have said you don't like being called Nicholas.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And so even if it is for emphasis or a comedic exclamation point, I should not do it. And I wasn't doing it intentionally, but I ...

Nick: Oh, I know.

Leah: As I was saying it, I remembered, and then I thought, oh no, you've been doing this, Leah.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Well, thank you.

Leah: So then I was like, I guess I'm gonna have to learn your middle name.

Nick: Oh yeah. So it's the same effect when you're just trying to get me in trouble. Yeah. Same idea.

Leah: So I'm sorry.

Nick: Quite all right. But for me, I would like to actually vent. And so I was recently in Dallas for our live show. I was staying at a hotel, and like a lot of hotels these days, they have a QR code in the room, which takes you to a special website where you can tip housekeeping, because so many people don't carry cash anymore. And they want to leave a tip but, like, that's difficult. And so what a lot of hotels do is, like, they have a system where you go to their website and you can use a credit card and, like, here's a couple bucks for housekeeping. And so this hotel had that and I thought, how great. I had cash but, like, nice to use the online app thing. And so I went on the app and I entered my room number and I selected the name of the person who was doing my room that day. And I was about to enter the tip and there was no little box to enter the dollar amount. And so, like, the website was broken. And so I let the hotel know, hey, your online tipping thing isn't working today. I tried it on my desktop. I tried it on my phone. Like, it's not working. So, like, can you look into it? And they're like, "Oh, of course. Certainly." And the next day, same problem. I was at this hotel for three days, I think. Every day it was a problem. At checkout, I mentioned it again. I was like, "Hey, just so you know, I've mentioned this several days. I wasn't able to, like, leave an electronic tip for housekeeping any of these days. I worry about all the other guests in your hotel. Like, I think this should be high priority." And so they're like, "Oh yes, of course we'll look into it." And so now it's been quite some time since our Dallas live show. I saved the QR code, because I took a photo of the QR code on my phone so I'd have a photo of it. And I just tried logging in and it's still broken. So, like, I'm so disappointed in this hotel for not fixing something that is so fundamental to etiquette.

Leah: Yeah, that is so disappointing because they haven't made an effort at all!

Nick: And to do it to housekeeping, of all the departments to do this to, like, let's be nice to housekeeping.

Leah: Yeah, I don't like that at all.

Nick: Right? So I'm kind of at the end of the line. Like, I mean, I guess I could escalate this to, like, hotel corporate, but it's just like, I would want them to get a jump on this.

Leah: Yeah, because people should be getting their tips that people want to leave them.

Nick: Right. And housekeeping is probably just assuming, like, "Oh, I guess just nobody's tipping us." And it's like, no, we want to, but yeah.

Leah: Yeah, that is ...

Nick: But I always carry cash for this reason. And so this is why $2 bills are very handy.

Leah: Yeah, I've gotten much better at—because there was a while there where I was like, "Ah, I forgot cash!" And now it's just in the bag.

Nick: Yeah, it's a good thing to do. So very disappointed in this hotel. Hopefully they will get it together. I will keep checking back. I saved the QR code, so I will report back at monthly intervals and let you know how it's going.

Leah: Because, you know, most people wouldn't even call in once. They'd be like, "Oh, it's not working." And then here you're doing it multiple times.

Nick: Yes. I mean, this hotel is well aware. And also the hotel has, like, an app where you can electronically send messages. Because they're like, "Oh, how's your stay going?" And I was like, "Oh, stay is great. However, just FYI, this is happening." And they wrote back, like, "Oh, we'll look into it." So, like, I have made it very clear to this property that this is a problem that they need to address. And even in the post-stay survey, I mentioned, like, stay was great, but there was a technical issue and, like, this happened and I did report it and just FYI. And, like, still nothing.

Leah: Yeah, we gotta get housekeeping their tips.

Nick: Yes. So that's my vent.

Leah: Now I'm worked up!

Nick: Yes, we all should be worked up.

Leah: We all should be worked up.

Nick: Yes. So I'll give you the phone number for the hotel. You can call.

Leah: Please do.

Nick: Will do.

---

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned about turning the table. And you're right, Nick, I feel like that should have been in a Jane Austen novel, and it may have been and I missed it. I probably just thought they were actually flipping the table over.

Nick: Yes, like Real Housewives.

Leah: And I love it. I could—I'm immediately visualizing a whole short story based entirely around this.

Nick: And I learned that people are dropping their driver's licenses all around Los Angeles.

Leah: Yeah, it's everywhere. Also, I love that between the two of us we've returned a file of medical notes, medicine, multiple licenses, a wallet.

Nick: Yeah, if you find it ...

Leah: Return it.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we would love your ideas for deep dive conversations. What would you like Leah and I to dive into more deeply? Let us know.

Leah: Oh, please do.

Nick: And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

---

Nick: Bye. All right, Leah, it's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I'm gonna do a cordials of kindness. I think all of our listeners know I'm in a ladies weightlifting group that I'm obsessed with, and we're on different online groups where we kind of check in with each other, and we're now all pickling our own onions.

Nick: [laughs] Okay?

Leah: And I could not be more delighted. You know, when I was a little kid, we had a garden and we used to pickle our own cucumbers. And it's a very fond memory I would have pickling cucumbers with my mom. So I was like, oh, I can still pickle. I just have to pickle on a smaller ...

Nick: Yeah, you can't do a full main garden of jars, but ...

Leah: But I can pickle an onion.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And so here we are. So thank you so much.

Nick: Okay. And for me, I want to read a nice email we just got. And it's, quote, "I was treated to a fabulous Michelin-star restaurant last night in Rome. And when a waiter arrived with a napkin menu, I called upon my Were You Raised By Wolves? knowledge and selected the dark napkin to match my dress. How nice! My husband was impressed and we had a laugh, gently side-eyeing our non-coordinating fellow diners."

Leah: I love that so much!

Nick: Isn't that great? Yes. Wolves knowledge in the wild.

Leah: Oh, I mean, and I get the full picture. I love it!

Nick: Yeah. So thank you for writing in. I really enjoyed hearing this.

Leah: Oh, I'm glowing, because that—I also wouldn't have known before you told us, Nick.

Nick: It's what I'm here for. So thank you.