Spinning Lazy Susans, Saying "Bless You" After Sneezes, Lying to Telemarketers, and More

Nick: Do you spin things the wrong way? Do you talk too much about money? Do you eat while standing in line? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help so people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right on to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: Nick, I don't know how you keep coming up with them.

Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about lazy Susan.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: [laughs] And I thought this was actually gonna be a quick one, but now I'm going down this deep rabbit hole, and then I'm looking into banquet seating charts from the Song Dynasty, and now it's 1:00 am and it's like, Nick, you gotta go to bed.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I'm gonna try to just make this relatively brief today, but oh, is there a lot to say! But the question to you, Leah, is a lazy Susan, first, what is that for the audience? Describe this.

Leah: So a lazy Susan, it—oh, I love how once I describe it, I see it in my mind's eye.

Nick: Of course.

Leah: It's say you're sitting at a table and in the middle there is a—it's like a tray that spins so you can turn it for people.

Nick: Yeah. It's a big turntable. It's a piece of wood on some ball bearings usually.

Leah: They're often very cute.

Nick: Are they?

Leah: Yes. I've seen some cute lazy Sues.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. And so the question today is, which way are you supposed to spin it?

Leah: This is such a bad question for me because I—you know, I danced for, like, 12 years and I was always the girl going the wrong direction. So—and then I had to, like, start labeling my hands. Anyway, so I would spin it—so I would go—that would be—that's clockwise.

Nick: Clockwise. Okay. So hold that thought. Before we get there, a little history. So the idea of revolving tables, those actually have been around for a few hundred years, but the lazy Susan that we think of, that's really, like, from the 1900s.

Leah: Just like me!

Nick: [laughs] Exactly. And there's actually a lot of theories about, like, where does the name "Susan" come from? Who was Susan? And I actually read—some people say, like, oh, it was Thomas Jefferson invented it and named it after his daughter Susan. He did not have any daughters named Susan. And then we have, oh, it was invented by Thomas Edison. Thomas Edison invented it and named it after his daughter Susan. He did not have any daughters named Susan. So they were not the inventor of this thing. But one theory is that the name "Susan" was just sort of like a generic term for a maid in the 1800s. And that was just, like, kind of a placeholder. And so the lazy Susan, does sort of do what a maid would do, which is, like, serve everybody. So this is one theory, but nobody knows, like, where this really came from. There is no actual Susan that this is named after.

Leah: It was probably actually invented by a lady named Susan and men were like, "Oh, we can't have people thinking women did stuff that was helpful!"

Nick: I mean, that's as plausible as the rest of the theories I read. And then cut to in the 1950s in San Francisco. There was a Chinese restaurant that started using this in their restaurant, and then that caught on like wildfire. And that also caught on, like, globally, like, even in China, like, this is what was happening. And so in China, the rule about what direction to rotate it is it goes clockwise. It always goes clockwise.

Leah: That's what I said.

Nick: So you're turning it to the left. Yes, you are correct. Yes. And there is no good explanation for why that is, though. The best I heard was like, oh, it's sort of like a Buddhist custom. Like, as we recall from an earlier episode, that you circumambulate a Buddhist temple going clockwise. And so some people have thought, like, oh, that's sort of related. But, like, that's not the story.

Leah: It just seems like it's in the flow going clockwise.

Nick: Well, true. But then in normal American dining, when you're passing plates, you pass them to the right, which is counterclockwise.

Leah: I don't know what to tell you, Nick. I instinctively knew it was to the left.

Nick: Well, I think because you're left-handed, somehow your brain is more oriented to that.

Leah: Not even somehow. Because I'm left-handed, it is more orientated to that.

Nick: But I think it is an interesting question in the United States: What would the proper rotation for a lazy Susan be? And I don't think any of the etiquette greats have weighed in on this. Like, Emily Post did not discuss lazy Susans in her 1922 book. Like, this did not come up for her. And so what would she say?

Leah: She may say it's based entirely on how much you like the person to your left and right of you.

Nick: Oh, who should get the Parker rolls first?

Leah: Yeah. You're like, "Oh, Edward over to my right? Not a fan. We're going to Robert on the left."

Nick: But I think if we had to come up with a rule for the United States, it's whatever direction you start with, the whole meal should just stick with that. And I would say I would—I would go counterclockwise in the United States. I feel like that keeps the same flow of dishes passing to the right. So that would be my interpretation. But if you're in a Chinese restaurant, if you're in China, then it's always clockwise.

Leah: Well, you know, I want to keep it as the originals. I want to stick to the origin story and it's gonna go clockwise.

Nick: I appreciate that you're a purist.

Leah: [laughs] I am a purist!

Nick: [laughs] So there you go. Lazy Susan.

Leah: I love it! Lazy Sue!

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Wow. I guess it's like deep and into the air.

Nick: [laughs] True. So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about saying "bless you" after sneezing.

Leah: And Nick brought it up and I thought, well, what's there to talk about? And then I found out how Nick handles the situation and I was like, oh, I guess we're talking about it.

Nick: [laughs] So the way I "handle the situation." I mean, what a way to put that.

Leah: Oh, I guess the way is the way you don't handle the situation.

Nick: Well, okay. Let's explain. So for me, I do not necessarily say "bless you" when people sneeze. I take the position that I don't want to call attention to it and I'm gonna pretend I didn't notice, and I don't want to embarrass you. I don't want—like, I just don't—no spotlight on you. I'm just like, it didn't happen. I treat it like other bodily functions that might be coming out of you.

Leah: Well, everybody heard the sneeze. Also, my soul might have just left my body for a second. I need a bless!

Nick: Yeah, that's true. We do need to catch it before the demons get in. That's true.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: What is interesting about this conversation is not the people who say "bless you" or who don't say "bless you," it's how some people take that. And I think there is an important sort of etiquette principle, which is like, don't look for trouble. This is just like a stock phrase.

Leah: This is like a habit, people—like when I'm in the middle of a sentence, somebody sneezes, I just go, "bless you." Like it's so in me to respond to a sneeze. I want to make sure people know we care that your soul just left your body. We're blessing you.

Nick: Yes. I think except for the demonic soul part, I think just the "I acknowledge that this is happening," it's just sort of a common call and response that we have in our culture. And, like, it has sort of no deeper meaning than that for most people.

Leah: Well, I think it's a—we have so few things left where we recognize each other's humanity. You know what I mean? Where it's just like a stranger and you're like, "bless you." Like, you're just like, "Hey, we're all in this together."

Nick: Yeah. Although, isn't it interesting that it's only sneezing that we do this for? We're not doing this for a burp. We're not doing this for flatulence. Can you imagine?

Leah: Well, I do. I do it.

Nick: You do? You—you give a little "bless you?"

Leah: If you're in my house and you flatulate, you're gonna get a "bless you" because I'm not gonna pretend I didn't hear that.

Nick: So I definitely take the position that I pretend I don't notice most things. And so I definitely let things go. But you brought up an interesting point, which is about strangers. So I think the question is: What is the radius that you need to be away from somebody where it stops becoming appropriate? Like, 40 feet away, we're not tossing out a "bless you."

Leah: Oh, I will. If I heard it, I'm saying "bless you." I mean, you might not hear me say it, but I wanted to make sure the blessing hits you 'cause you need it.

Nick: Wow! Okay. If somebody sneezed on the subway, would you do anything?

Leah: I always say "bless you" when someone sneezes on the subway.

Nick: Okay. All right. So we're kind of breaking the wall on the subway.

Leah: And I've never not had anybody not go "thank you" or acknowledge it in some way. Like, it made them feel seen.

Nick: Yes. And that is the appropriate response.

Leah: I'll even take a smile, like a—if it's like the subway and, you know, people don't ...

Nick: An acknowledgement of some sort.

Leah: It's an acknowledgement.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Also, if somebody flatulates in my home, since you brought it up, and if obviously they're embarrassed, I'm not gonna give you a "bless you." But if I know you and you're my friend and you do that, I'm giving you a "bless you." Sorry.

Nick: I mean, just for the record, if I'm over and this happens, you can pass on the "bless you." We can pretend it didn't happen.

Leah: Now I'm gonna double down. Now I will be like, "Bless you!"

Nick: So interestingly, in China, if you sneeze once, somebody might say, like, "Oh, somebody's missing you." And if you sneeze twice, they'll be like, "Oh, somebody's talking about you behind your back." So that's sort of more of a Chinese tradition. [laughs] Three sneezes is like, oh, you might be coming down with something.

Leah: But then I think you're still acknowledging people. Like, I just—I want to acknowledge a human.

Nick: Yeah. You're still acknowledging the sneeze. Yeah. Although it's not uncommon in Asia to just ignore sneezing. So the idea that we're acknowledging sneezes, like, that's not universal around the world.

Leah: Jackie Monahan, hilarious comic, has a funny joke that she said "bless you" to somebody and they got upset because they thought it was religious. And then so the next time they sneezed, she just said, "gross!" [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Okay. But still acknowledged. Still acknowledged their humanity. So I guess if that's what we're trying to do, that's what we're trying to do.

Leah: Well, I'll be interested to see what our listeners say. Do they mind a "bless you?" Do they not want a "bless you?" Do they want a "gesundheit?" Do they want to be not acknowledged? It's also such a gut reaction to me. It's like if somebody was throwing a ball at my face, I would catch it. It's the same thing. I hear a sneeze, I go—I don't even think, I go, "bless you."

Nick: Yeah. And that's why I don't know if we really should be taking offense to a "bless you," because it is just such a stock phrase. It actually is sort of divorced of any meaning. Like, when you leave the house, you don't think about the day and whether or not it'll truly be good before you say "good morning" to somebody. It's sort of like that. It's just like—it's just what we say. It's the call and response. Sneeze, bless you, thank you. Like, that's just kind of how it works.

Leah: I think it's just being polite.

Nick: Right. But I think the question for our discussion is: Is that the only polite thing, or is it also polite just to ignore it? Is that also fine? Are we obligated to say "bless you" to others?

Leah: Well, you can if you want to.

Nick: And for that, I would say, I don't know. I think it's okay to ignore it.

Leah: I think it depends on what kind of human you want to be, Nick. What kind of person do you want to be?

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I want to be a person that ignores it, I think. That's the person. I will receive the "bless you," I will say thank you for it, but I don't think I want to initiate it. I think that's kind of where I'm landing. And you, on the other hand, you want to give it, you want to get it. I get it.

Leah: Well, I gotta pick up for all the "bless yous" that you're not doing.

Nick: Oh, you're picking up the slack?

Leah: I'm working double time.

Nick: Okay, well great. I mean, thank you for all the work you're doing.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is, quote, "How would you let someone know that it's impolite to talk openly about how much money you make or have? I have a young coworker—let's call him Chad. His favorite topic of conversation is how much his watch costs, or the new car he bought in cash the last weekend, or the yacht he's renting for his girlfriend's birthday. At first, I may have humored these kinds of discussions too much. He's clearly looking for approval, or to impress his older colleagues. But now I fear I'm doing him a disservice by not letting him know that this is becoming quite distasteful. When he last showed me, absolutely unprompted, a big check he just received, I said, 'Well, I guess you're buying dinner.' He looked confused and said, 'No, I'm not.' I think I need to be a bit more direct next time. How would you handle this?"

Leah: I was really looking forward to your response on this one, Nick.

Nick: Oh! Well, to quote the great Judith Martin, she says, quote, "It is as vulgar as ever to inquire into or confess to the state of personal finances." So yeah, in the United States, it is considered quite improper to talk about money. This is not true around the world, but at least for us Americans, we don't talk about it.

Leah: I do think in certain circles in New York and LA, I think especially with, like, comics and actors, we're all like, "How much is that apartment?"

Nick: Well, yeah. So funny you should mention it. We definitely talk about real estate prices. [laughs] So that definitely comes up, but we don't necessarily talk about net worth. There's a lot of other ways we try to figure it out about each other, like all the different clues, but we don't just be like, "Oh, my net worth is X dollars."

Leah: Oh, definitely.

Nick: That's not something that we discuss.

Leah: No. And I actually do wish—and I think it's happening more and more, that people talked more about money in the arts, because that way people would know what they were supposed to be getting paid instead of all of us getting underpaid.

Nick: Yes. Salary transparency. Very interesting. I mean, this is one of the reasons why people want more of it. And I did actually just see a resignation letter recently where they're like, "Bye everybody." And then he listed his exact salary and all his bonuses so that everybody who still worked at the company knew exactly how much he was being paid. And so that when the company was like, "Oh, we don't have money for this," everybody could be like, "Oh. Well, you just fired that guy and what's happening to his salary?" So yes, money? Money is very charged in our community.

Leah: Well, I think in that case, because in so many circumstances, not talking about money, I think, has been used against workers because we don't know what's normal.

Nick: Yes. But I think there is an important distinction between talking about money in a business context and fairness, equity, things like that and then in a personal context.

Leah: Very much so.

Nick: And this is definitely a personal context.

Leah: Yes. And it's coming out as gauche.

Nick: Yes, it's definitely a little tacky. And I guess, how do we respond? I mean, that's really the question here. And so because this is not your direct report, this is just a colleague, I think the rules are a little different. I think you have to decide whether or not saying anything to them directly is actually helping them, or if it's your place to do that, and how well you know them. So I think the idea is just don't feed the beast. Don't indulge it. Don't be impressed.

Leah: I agree. I don't think it's sort of our place to say anything.

Nick: Because, like, what would you say? Like, what would the polite thing to be like, "Hey, Chad. I don't know if you realize, but when you talk about how much your watch costs, it's kind of off-putting."

Leah: I mean, I guess it would have to be something like, "You're making me—it makes me uncomfortable when we constantly talk about money."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think we just need to not indulge it. So, like, listen, but, like, don't ask follow-up questions.

Leah: I mean, I wonder, could we say, like, next time somebody shows us money that they made, could we say, "Oh, it feels inappropriate for me to see that?"

Nick: "I don't know if I should be seeing that." Is that the line?

Leah: Yeah, I think it's more about it being private or inappropriate as opposed to, like, tacky. I think we want to not call somebody tacky or gauche.

Nick: So if they're like, "Oh, my watch costs a billion dollars," you'd be like, "Oh. Oh, that feels private. Like, oh, that's information I shouldn't be hearing."

Leah: Because I feel like how people talk about money is, like, coming from a long line of some kind of a money thing. Like, either he had a family where people express things through big money ticket items and telling people, or this is the first time he's had any money and he wants to be like, "Look, I'm doing well." And so we—I don't think we want to insult somebody.

Nick: Yeah, that's a good point. Yes. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why somebody might be acting in this way. And so it's not really our place to assume what those reasons might be. But it makes you uncomfortable, letter-writer. Like, you just don't want to be around it.

Leah: So I think you can say it feels inappropriate to me, and make it about how you feel about talking about money.

Nick: Yeah. Sort of make it about you. It's not about them. And hopefully they take the hint?

Leah: And then if they don't, I think you can continue on with what Nick said where it's like, don't give it anything.

Nick: Yeah. Don't give it any energy. Don't indulge it. Don't show interest. Don't feed the algorithm.

Leah: Don't give that fire any air.

Nick: There we go. So our next question is, quote, "While in line at a buffet, is it okay to eat any of the food on your plate, or do you have to wait until you return to your table?"

Leah: I know what the answer should be, and I know what my answer is.

Nick: Yes, I know what the answer should be, and I know what Leah wants to say. So just say it, Leah. Just get it out.

Leah: I was gonna say, wants to or is going to?

Nick: [laughs] Does? Sure. Do you do this?

Leah: If I'm walking around—because a lot of buffets you're walking around place to place da da da. You want to sneak a little taste? You want to sneak a little bite, see what that is? Get in there!

Nick: Oh, I have so many thoughts. So my question to you then is not all foods are created equal, so are we just grabbing a French fry? Are we getting into a drumstick? Like, what are we eating? Are utensils involved? It's finger food only.

Leah: Yeah, I'm finger fooding. I'm not picking up a drumstick.

Nick: Okay. And we're not, like, getting the fork and getting into the pasta while we're standing.

Leah: Yes, but that's only because I only—don't think I have that many hands available.

Nick: Oh, okay. It's not because that would be wrong. It's just you practically can't do it. I see. Yeah. No, I think for me, the buffet needs to have a fiction that this is all clean. There needs to be a hygienic fiction. Like, those sneeze guards, are those really doing anything? I don't know. People touching all the tongs. Like, I want the fiction that this is as clean as possible, and so I want the idea of your hands being cleaned. I want to believe that. And when you're touching French fries and then putting it in your face, that makes it harder for me to believe that. And so I think that is one reason why I'm like, just go back to your table. Like, don't eat, just wait.

Leah: Well, the funny thing is is that it's not gonna make any difference between me touching it, my fries at my table and coming back to the buffet, and then me doing it walking from the buffet. It's the same thing.

Nick: Well, a lot of etiquette is about the lies we tell ourselves. [laughs] Yes. So that's the lie I want to tell myself.

Leah: So then if a person uses a fork, the fork, are you okay with it? If I stood next to you, and instead of sneaking, I just full-on forked food into my face.

Nick: I mean, on some level, I do feel slightly better about you eating fettuccine Alfredo off of a fork rather than eating French fries with your fingers. I do feel slightly different about it. I do. I don't love either.

Leah: I'm gonna do both. I'm just not doing a drumstick because it's sticky.

Nick: Also, part of me does feel like a dry roll or a dry cookie feels different than something that's greasy.

Leah: Yeah, I'm not doing greasy. This grease is too much.

Nick: Yeah. No, I just don't want you eating.

Leah: I'm starving. I pull a little bit off my roll. I just don't feel bad about it. I get what you're saying. I understand, and I know that's the right answer.

Nick: Also, there is a little quality of like, couldn't make it back to your table, huh? Couldn't wait? Couldn't wait?

Leah: Nope.

Nick: And a lot of etiquette around food has to do with, like, self-control and pretending that we're not actually eating. Be like, "Oh, am I eating right now? What?" Like, a lot of table manners have to do with that idea. Like, oh, we're just like dainty little bites. We're just dabbing the corner of our mouth. And so I feel like in general, etiquette is about, like, oh, pretending that we're not hungry. And so that's why etiquette is like, go back to your table first. You can wait.

Leah: I'm fine with this being the correct answer, but I'm gonna tell you, I'm not doing it.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So what a great question. I feel like I like my approach, but I guess it's not the only one.

Leah: No, I'm sure Nick's approach is appropriate, but I mean ...

Nick: Do we not have a hygiene thing? Do we not? I mean, you're into hygiene. You wash your hands all the time. Like, do we not—do we not feel this?

Leah: My hand isn't going into my mouth.

Nick: Okay. All right. I guess if that's all it is.

Leah: You know what I mean? It's not going into my mouth. I actually don't even use the same hand that I eat with to serve with. I serve with my right and I eat with my left. So my left hand isn't going anywhere near the food that's in the—for the communal.

Nick: Okay. All right. Well, I guess—I guess if this is how you eat while in line at a buffet, then I guess it's fine.

Leah: I understand why it's inappropriate, but Nick, we're all gonna die someday. And if I tell you that I was gonna die and I needed a fry and I didn't eat it before I keeled over because I thought somebody would think it was inappropriate, I don't want to live that life.

Nick: Okay. Yes, if these are the circumstances, then I could—absolutely will let you eat the French fries. Yes. Etiquette would be happy for you to eat the final French fry.

Leah: I'm not standing in the middle like a monster, just shoving my face, and then putting my hands with both—all 10 fingers into the melon balls and then pulling them out.

Nick: Okay. Okay, I appreciate that. And I guess as long as you're not holding up the line, like as long as nobody's waiting for you to finish eating off of your bowl.

Leah: The only reason that you're snacking is because the people in front of you are moving so slow that you have nothing else to do and you're trying to be respectful of their inability to make choices.

Nick: Okay. All right. So if the idea is I have to eat French fries, otherwise I'm gonna be enraged at the people who are holding up the line. Okay, then given those etiquette choices, then yeah. All right, I could see how we might—might land at that.

Leah: And I'm not snacking away. You know what I mean? I'm sneaking a bite.

Nick: Okay. All right. Fine. Fine, Leah. Fine. Eat. Okay, fine.

Leah: No, I'm not saying I even think it's appropriate. I'm just saying I can recognize that it's inappropriate and I'm gonna do it anyway.

Nick: [laughs] And it's just like poetry. Break those rules once you know them. Have at it. Eat the French fry. What's it to me?

Leah: At least I'm not sneezing into it.

Nick: I appreciate that. Yes. No, I appreciate that. Although I'd certainly say "bless you" if you did. So you out there, do you have questions for us? Oh yes, you do! Send them to us. Send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Nick, I am gonna repent.

Nick: Okay, what have you done?

Leah: I want to say up top that I—I feel bad about this.

Nick: Okay. So somehow I'm supposed to be nice to you, or ...?

Leah: I was gonna say be gentle.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: Because I know I'm already gonna have to answer for it in heaven.

Nick: Okay. All right.

Leah: So I'd like to repeat to our audience that I'm really against lying.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: I really try hard to never lie. I mean, even, like, little things, you know, I just don't do it.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: We also know that I don't like answering phones or making phone calls.

Nick: Also true. Yes.

Leah: So my phone rang. And I never see my phone ringing. I keep my ringer off. I'm not usually carrying my phone. My phone was ringing and I saw it ringing.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: So I was looking at it, and it was a Los Angeles phone number.

Nick: Okay?

Leah: So I thought, let's throw caution to the wind.

Nick: What?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Okay?

Leah: Side note, I thought it was let's throw cush into the wind for a long part of my life, and I didn't know what cush was, but I imagined it as like a thin grass. I was like, it must be like a thin grass that you throw into the wind and then it blows where it may. So it meant the same thing in my mind, but it just wasn't what it was. So if we're throwing cush or caution, that's what I did. And I picked up the phone.

Nick: Okay?

Leah: And Dustin was standing right next to me and I said, "Hello."

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: And then they said—it was like, a man's voice, not an AI voice. And they said, "May I speak to," and then there was a pause as they looked at their notes.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: And then they said my first name and then there was a pause as they mispronounced my last name.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So then I flashed back onto all the conversations that I've been stuck in because I did pick up my phone, and I felt bad hanging up on people because I don't know if I told you, I think I've mentioned it to everybody. I worked at the call center during university, nights. I was, like, calling up alumni, raising money.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And I got—I got promoted to, like, supervisor real quick. It's sort of like a do as I say, not as I do, because I'm really good at motivating people, but actually making the calls myself, not my skill set. But because I know how hard people at call centers are working, you know, I'm like—I feel like I gotta listen. And then eventually, you know, I do want to help the children. I do want to help the animals. Of course I want to give money to the environment. You know what I mean?

Nick: Of course you want a new home warranty.

Leah: Yeah. I don't even have a home, but I do. I want to—I want to support.

Nick: Of course you're interested in this timeshare.

Leah: Yes! And then I flashback on all that and then I just panicked.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I was like, we can't—this is why we don't pick up the phone.

Nick: No.

Leah: And then, so I said—I said, "I'm sorry, you have the wrong number."

Nick: Ooh, you lied!

Leah: And then I told a straight lie. And then I imagined myself at the gates of heaven having to be like, "I just told a lie for no reason."

Nick: No one would be in heaven if this was the criteria.

Leah: Well, it might be. And it's on my list of now direct lies that I've told. And then I panicked. So I tried to backpedal and I said, "May I take a message?"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And then he goes, "How can you take a message if it's the wrong number?" And then I just started laughing hysterically.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, he makes a good point.

Leah: No, he made such a great point. I started laughing and I go, "You're right. You're totally right." And then I just said bye and I hung up.

Nick: So ...

Leah: And then I just stared at my phone and I looked at Dustin and they go, "Oh, who was it for?" And I go, "Me." And he goes, "Oh, so they did have the right number." And I said, "Yes!"

Nick: Okay. Well ...

Leah: And then I know he knows I lied because that's why he said that.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then I know I lied, but then I was like, what if it's like somebody that I actually needed to talk to? And they were like, "Leah Bonnema is a big liar. Pants on fire."

Nick: I mean, what if this was, like, Publishers Clearing House letting you know you won?

Leah: I was like, what if it's like the head of A24? And they were like, "We saw the movie you submitted for a proof of concept and we love it, but unfortunately Leah Bonnema is not there. It's the wrong phone number, but this stranger is willing to take a message." I'm just mortified. I just panicked. I just went into sheer panic. I was like, I can't handle—I cannot handle this. I am great in emergencies, but daily life things are too much.

Nick: Yeah. Well, I think don't answer the phone. Let it go to voicemail.

Leah: I know. We're going back. We're going back to that.

Nick: That I think just if it's important, they'll leave a message and then you can obviously reply to the message. Yeah, let's not indulge scammers. Thank you.

Leah: Can I take a message? [laughs]

Nick: That's wild. I mean, how polite, how nice of you to take a message for a wrong number.

Leah: He was so funny. He goes, "How could you take a message if it's the wrong number? And I was like ...

Nick: Let's say you took the message. What are you gonna do with the message? Are you gonna try to find the real Leah Bonnema?

Leah: Imagine I said that. "I'll try to find her online. What was the spelling?" I'm just so embarrassed. It's so embarrassing.

Nick: Yeah, no, it's classic, peak Leah Bonnema, for sure. So for me, I would like to vent. And I was at a Broadway show recently. I would like to vent about the obligatory standing ovation that now takes place at the end of every musical in New York City. It has lost all value and meaning if everybody's just standing up at the end automatically, because then, like, when something is truly great, how do we show that? We have no symbol for this anymore because we have just diluted the quality of the standing ovation.

Leah: I mean, I guess we would have to stand on top of our chairs.

Nick: Right? Because, like, sometimes there are performances that are great and you really want to, like, get on your feet for them, but it's like, I'm already standing, and I'm short and I had to stand because otherwise I wouldn't be able to see what's happening. So, like, everybody has to stand and then it just—it can't be great for the performers because they're like, "Oh, they're standing again." Although I guess how devastating if somebody doesn't stand, right? Like, if your expectation is that everybody will stand now and, like, somebody doesn't, like, you would see that and like, oh, that would actually hurt.

Leah: I don't think I would feel like, "Oh, they're standing again. How banal!" You know, I think I'd be delighted.

Nick: No, I'm delighted. Sure. But it just feels like it has lost all meaning, because it's automatic now. And I wish it wasn't. I wish it still meant something. So that's all. I just—I guess I'm just lament— it's a lament.

Leah: Earn it, earn it! That's what Nick is saying.

Nick: Yes!

Leah: I do think it's funny. Dear listeners, Nick told me I can't do any more driving vents, so I'm gonna have to tell Nick that he can't do any more play vents.

Nick: [laughs] Well, it is true. We both go to the theater often or drive often, and so these are often where we're experiencing etiquette crimes. I get it, but I thought just for variety it might be fun to spice things up for both of us. So I'll take the note, Leah. I'll take the note.

Leah: Well, I think it's also where we both get irritated. Like, I get irritated on the road and you get irritated ...

Nick: Oh, I get irritated lots of places.

Leah: [laughs] I don't! That's my problem!

Nick: [laughs] Yes. Well, I mean, the road, a lot of bad things happen. I get it, but you know, we just want to spice things up, get irritated in other places.

Leah: I want you to know I had a proper repent that had to do with driving, but you said no driving, so now you missed a real repent.

Nick: Okay. Drats! Well, save it for the future.

Leah: I messed up in a Nordstrom's parking lot, I'll tell you that.

Nick: Oh, okay. Well, I can't wait until next time.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned that I lazy Susan—if I may make it a verb—in the traditional Chinese manner.

Nick: Yes, this is true. And I learned that you love tossing out a "bless you."

Leah: I do. I really do. I'm giving them out like Oprah's giving out stuff under chairs. You get a bless you. You get a bless you.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note in my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, this is for our international listeners. You all, do you have any questions about Americans? Things that confuse you, things you want to know more about, things we do that we think are normal, but you're like, oh, that's—that's not how we do it. Let us know. Let us know what you'd like to know about American etiquette and the way we do stuff, and would love to explore that further. So this is special homework for the international listeners. If you're in the United States, you get the week off. You're welcome.

Leah: I cannot wait for these questions. That's such a great idea, Nick.

Nick: Right? I thought that'd be kind of fun. So let us know. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: Nick, I want to do a special cordial of kindness to the Libby app, which is how I get my library books. You know, I love a library. Always a thank you to the library. Support your local library. And Libby app has just kept me in so much joy because they even have audiobooks, free audiobooks.

Nick: How great!

Leah: You can just listen all the time! Thank you, Libby. Thank you, the library.

Nick: And for me, I want to say thank you to my friend Eben, who taught me how to play whist. Contract whist. Are you familiar with this game? It's a card game.

Leah: No!

Nick: So a bunch of us gathered in Bryant Park yesterday. Lovely day. And they actually have a special game section where you have to be playing games in order to use these tables.

Leah: Oh, that's fun.

Nick: And there's, like, somebody going around, like, making sure you're only playing games. Yeah. And so we were gonna do mahjong, but then he was like, "What about whist?" And I was like, "What is whist?" And so we learned and, like, super fun. And this is the contract version. And so you have to like bidding and, like, a lot of strategy. So it was super fun. It was a lovely afternoon. So thanks to Eben for teaching me this fun game.

Leah: I love that!