Motoring with Manners, Sharing the Sidewalk, Charging Guests for Pizza, and More

Nick: Do you always let ladies go first? Do you poke people with your umbrella? Do you charge guests for pizza? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

*[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help so people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?*

Nick: Hey everybody, it's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right on to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: I'm like, what else is there? We've learned so much!

Nick: [laughs] Well, for today's amuse-bouche, I want to take you back to 1949.

Leah: Oh, okay.

Nick: And this is something I recently came across, which I did not know existed, which is Emily Post's Motor Manners: The Blue Booklet of Traffic Etiquette.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so in 1949, the National Highway Users Conference—which is actually still around, they've just sort of renamed—asked Emily to put together a booklet of etiquette for the road.

Leah: Thank goodness. I wish this was getting circulated now.

Nick: And so here's how Emily kicks it off. Quote, "Far too little traffic courtesy is shown on our highways. In fact, this lack of courtesy by highway users contributes not only to confusion and traffic congestion, but bad motor manners can all too often result in MURDER!" [laughs]

Leah: I mean, honestly, that really took such a turn. All of a sudden I was in the beginning of a movie that was like a Serial Mom kind of a situation.

Nick: And she put 'murder' all in caps.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: And so when I saw that, I was like, "Oh wow, Emily!" I mean, she's not wrong, but it's just like ...

Leah: She's not wrong!

Nick: Was not expecting that.

Leah: Wow! I honestly wasn't expecting it either.

Nick: So that's how she kicks this little booklet off. And what's amazing is that more than 75 years later, some things have never changed, but I wanted to highlight a few things that did catch my eye in this booklet. And so she talks about how so many people are rude on the road because cars are so new. We just haven't had enough time as a society to figure out rules on the road. And I read this and I'm like, oh, Emily. You will be so disappointed to learn ...

Leah: I know, that's—guess what?

Nick: We have not gotten any better. But then most of the book is just like, oh, how does the Golden Rule apply to traffic? And, like, oh, of course, yes. But then there's some things in the book which is like, oh, interesting. So the first question is: Is it proper for the driver to get behind the wheel from the street side of the car? And she says, "People who enter a car from the street side are actually being rude to other drivers." So you are supposed to enter your car from the passenger side.

Leah: And climb over?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess this is back when it was just a bench seat, so you could just climb over.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, now it's—that would be—most people I don't think could. I'm not that flexible.

Nick: Right?

Leah: I mean, I have, but it was under duress.

Nick: Yeah. That's a different thing. Yes. [laughs] That's not how we're normally entering our car. And then another question is: How does the courteous driver use his speedometer? And Emily, she really goes in. She says, quote, "Only a traffic moron thinks that speedometers are provided to prove to friends how fast his car can go. Anyone knows that any simpleton can hold an accelerator down."

Leah: Emily is coming in hot. And dare I say Emily has revved her engines.

Nick: Oh! Another thing that really caught my eye, which I thought was so interesting is, quote, "Why should no distinction be made between men and women in motoring manners?" And so the idea of, like, oh, do we need to be, like, chivalrous on the road to a lady driver? So she says, quote, "While gallantry is expected of all gentlemen, on the highway, women drivers lose the ready identity of their sex and simply become another driver. Only a pseudo-gentleman would make a show of chivalry to women drivers and then tangle bumpers in a bluffing match with a man driver."

Leah: So she's arguing for driving equality.

Nick: She is, but were there people of this era who thought, "Oh, I need to, like, let a lady go first at a four-way stop?" Like, was that what was happening? Like, that this question had to be asked?

Leah: Well, I didn't know that we were letting women drive.

Nick: Turns out, yes.

Leah: I like it.

Nick: Yeah. No, it feels very modern, but it's so interesting that oh, there were people in society who felt like, oh, women drivers should be treated differently on the road in terms of, like, the rules.

Leah: Well, I think she's saying you don't need to coddle women. Like, we are also drivers. We got it.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And I think she's also throwing in there that, like, you're coddling women drivers and then it's men, like, getting into arguments with each other in cars.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. Like, we're not the problem. Yeah. And then there's a question about, like, oh, should a gentleman light a lady's cigarette while driving? And so she says safety is more important than chivalry. So don't light a lady's cigarette if you're driving.

Leah: I just—I mean, smoking in cars period is so ...

Nick: Yeah. I mean, what a throwback. And then she talks about parking, and this is where she really kind of goes in. So she says, "Overtime parking is thievery from the standpoint of etiquette." So I guess if you're in a parking space for too long and, like, the meter runs out? Thievery.

Leah: What was the word she used? "Overtime?"

Nick: Overtime parking. Yes.

Leah: Mmm.

Nick: Mm-hmm. Which I guess, I mean, overtime parking, that must be like I put a nickel in the meter and then it ran out, right? That must be overtime parking.

Leah: But I mean, that's why you get a ticket.

Nick: Yeah. Well, it's thievery even if you don't get a ticket. And then she says, quote, "Drivers are rude and selfish when they hold up other traffic while laboring to get into a parking place. They expose lack of skill as well as lack of manners. To display inept parking technique is somewhat like a discordant amateur musician laboring through a poor performance to everyone's distress."

Leah: [laughs] I can just imagine her, like, teaching somebody how to parallel park and them just being crushed under the weight of expectation.

Nick: "This is inept parking technique!" I love the idea of comparing that to just like a bad musician. [laughs] So I mean, I guess it's true. Like, you should learn how to parallel park. That is a good skill.

Leah: But it is hard, and people can go around you. You roll your window down, you go, "Go around."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess that's what we do today, but she really had strong feelings about it. Also, back in 1949, the cars were so much bigger. I mean, I think it was a lot harder to parallel park back then.

Leah: But there was also way less cars.

Nick: You think the parking spaces were just bigger? That's true.

Leah: I mean, I don't think they were driving down Hollywood Boulevard and it was, like, back-to-back traffic on both sides.

Nick: That's true.

Leah: You know what I mean? They weren't—there wasn't the same kind of pressure to get in in a half a second.

Nick: Although power steering helps.

Leah: Oh, power steering helps. I mean, it—I think it's significantly easier now to park.

Nick: Yeah. And yet we're still bad at it as a society.

Leah: I got one. I don't want to brag, but I am going to.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I went downtown. I had to go to a store, and I was driving around looking for a spot. There was one spot.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: Man standing there in the—not in the spot but, like, by the meter on the phone.

Nick: Okay. All right.

Leah: I was on speakerphone with a friend, and I go, "Hey, I gotta hang up. I gotta park." And then I go, "Oh, there's a man there. I can't—I cannot parallel park because he's gonna get involved. He's gonna start telling me how to park. I can't do it. It's a really tight spot." And she just goes, "I'm hanging—I'm hanging up, but you can do it!"

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then I just pulled up and I got it in one shot in the tightest spot.

Nick: Is there anything more satisfying?

Leah: It felt so good, because there's nothing worse than parallel parking in a really small spot where you're gonna have to go "ee er ee er ee er," and someone's standing there watching you be inept.

Nick: Well, the only thing worse than that is where you're doing it right in front of a restaurant that has patio seating.

Leah: Yes! Oh!

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And I nailed it in one spot.

Nick: Okay. It can be done. Well, Emily would be very proud of you. And so this is "Motor Manners." And so I thought this was very fun. And the fact that this existed at all, like who knew that there was this little blue booklet in the world? But ...

Leah: I absolutely love it. I mean, talk about something that needs to be redone.

Nick: Right? Oh yeah. We should do an updated version. Yeah.

Leah: Blinkers!

Nick: Yeah, The Red Book of How Not to Be Horrible on the Road.

Leah: Wave while I thank you.

Nick: So that's your amuse-bouche.

Leah: Left lane.

Nick: Okay, we get it, Leah. [laughs]

---

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and outside down the street.

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, we want to talk about the sidewalk.

Leah: Which honestly feels—basket is the wrong word, but I mean, there's just—it's a cornucopia.

Nick: Oh, sure.

Leah: Of different interactions, different kinds of etiquette crimes. So much happening at once.

Nick: And you wanted to talk about this today. So has something specific happened to your life, or is it just cumulative?

Leah: Well, it's just because I live on quite possibly one of the busiest corners in Los Angeles.

Nick: Yeah, I think you really do. Yeah.

Leah: And it's so interesting to see all of these interactions happening, you know, also with people from different countries, people from different—like, you know, people from cities walk different than people—because they're like, "I gotta get somewhere." There are people here on vacation from, like—so they're like, "I'm looking." Then there's people with dogs, then there's people on speakerphone, then there's groups of people. I mean, it's so much at the same time. It's like a Petri dish.

Nick: [laughs] So let's just talk about it. And we've definitely talked about sidewalk issues in the past, but I thought this would be good to unify in one conversation. So overall, I think the most important thing to know is just like the sidewalk is a shared space. It is not your own personal hallway. So I think we just gotta start with that baseline.

Leah: I think we're almost writing the same things.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Well, I—no, I'm pretty sure you didn't write the first one.

Nick: [laughs] What did you write?

Leah: I wrote, "No poop on the loop."

Nick: Oh. Oh yeah. I did not have "No poop on the loop" on my list.

Leah: Which is a big sign at this place in Maine where, you know, it's a ...

Nick: It's a loop?

Leah: ... trailway. And you're like, "Pick up the poop." But I feel like that should be applied to any sidewalk.

Nick: Okay, yeah. Well, let's just jump into that then. So yes, it's a shared space.

Leah: Shared space.

Nick: So if you or your dog does something in this shared space, it's nice to leave it how you found it.

Leah: Pick it up!

Nick: Pick it up. Yeah. And I think that's a general theme is that the sidewalk is just a series of obligations. It's not a vibe. It's about flow, it's about yielding, it's about your duty of frontage, you know, because, like, as a store owner, I have some obligation to the sidewalk in front of my store or my house, you know? So it's all of these things. And I think we forget this, we forget this, and then this is how chaos happens.

Leah: And it's—it's moving.

Nick: It's a flow. Yeah, it's fluid dynamics.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. So yeah, that's, I think, actually the most important thing. You gotta pick a side and you gotta stick to it. And in North America, we typically head to the right.

Leah: We head to the right.

Nick: We're going to the right. And if you come up against somebody and you do that little dance, go to the right. Go to the right. If everybody went to the right, it would be fine.

Leah: And people walk at different speeds.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: That's normal.

Nick: Not a problem. Yeah.

Leah: You just can't take up the whole sidewalk so people who are walking at different speeds can't get around you.

Nick: Right. And what you think is fast may be quite slow, which I think is what happens in New York City where tourists come, they think they're walking fast, and your version of fast is, like, not anywhere close. And that just makes everybody behind you mad.

Leah: And I also think, like, on Hollywood Boulevard, we have groups, we have tour groups.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And they're not walking fast. They don't know where—people don't—they're trying to find each other. People don't know what's going on. They've never been there before. And I think there is an element of just giving people grace. You gotta walk around. You just like—they're also on vacation. They haven't seen it. You know what I mean? You go okay, that's what's happening here. This is the environment I'm in. It's a tourist area. I'm just gonna walk around calmly.

Nick: Yeah. You can't be mad at people in Times Square blocking the sidewalk.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: You can't be mad at people on Hollywood Boulevard blocking. Like that's the deal.

Leah: That's the deal. They came here to look at the stars on the sidewalk.

Nick: But it would be nice if you're taking your selfie, you're doing whatever you're doing, you were still mindful of the people around you. That would be nice. I would enjoy that.

Leah: I do think there's different kinds of sidewalks. There's that kind of huge sidewalk and then there's like a regular sidewalk.

Nick: Sure. Yes. And I think we do need to be mindful of, like, who gives way to whom. And so strollers, wheelchairs, mobility devices, those people get the right of way. That's how that goes. So, like, go around them, be patient. There is the old rule of, like, the gentleman takes the curbside. Do you know about this?

Leah: Of course I know about this.

Nick: What do you mean, of course you know about this? Oh, I guess all your Jane Austen novels. Is that what it is?

Leah: Oh no, women talk about it regularly.

Nick: This comes—what does that mean?

Leah: That, like, we went on a date and he put me on the curbside.

Nick: Oh, this still comes up? Oh, interesting. Okay, so I guess this rule comes from, like, horses and mud and puddles. Like, that's where that's supposed to come from, right?

Leah: Oh, I think it comes from if a car jumps the curb, I'm gonna die for us.

Nick: Okay. I mean, I guess that's a little darker version, but yes. I guess they might be.

Leah: I mean, that's what I thought it was. That's why I put my dogs on the inside.

Nick: Although I feel like if the idea is I want to be the person that dies first in New York City, I think actually it would be chivalrous for the gentleman to be on the building side, so that if an air conditioner falls out of the sky or you fall through a grate, then you'll be the one to fall through the cellar doors. So maybe it's different depending on where you are.

Leah: There's risks from so many sides.

Nick: [laughs] That's true. It's coming from all directions. Actually, you just have to piggyback. I guess that's how you do it. Baby Bjorn it.

Leah: I also don't think that way. I like to be on the outside because I like to be the furthest away from the congestion in the middle of the sidewalk.

Nick: Right. You want to be more on the slow lane away from oncoming traffic.

Leah: Yeah. I just want—because that way people can just do their thing and I'm just gonna walk up the side.

Nick: And then we also don't want to stop anywhere in the middle of the sidewalk.

Leah: Oh, please don't!

Nick: Or top of stairs, middle of the street, doorways. Like, let's not do that. Gotta remember the flow.

Leah: In a New York City subway, I used to have a whole joke, and everybody in New York, I think, is very familiar with the person who walks to the top of the stairs at the subway and then stops at the top.

Nick: Yeah. What are we doing?

Leah: To, like, look at their phone or just move.

Nick: Or the people that stop right before the turnstile or right after the turnstile.

Leah: What are we doing?

Nick: Top of the escalator, bottom of the escalator. Yeah. Let's not—let's not—that's not the place to stop. Yeah.

Leah: Also, I'm gonna put this into sidewalk. I think it's so important to follow crossing signals.

Nick: Okay. No jaywalking?

Leah: Don't walk against the traffic. People have very short times to turn.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Walk with your walk sign.

Nick: It is safer, for sure. And even one-way streets in New York City, it is a good idea to look both ways.

Leah: Look both ways.

Nick: Yeah, definitely a good idea. Weather is the next thing on my list. Umbrellas. Oh, so many golf umbrellas in New York City. Why do we have golf umbrellas in New York City?

Leah: Maybe it's because it's so far out that they want to make sure the bottom of their trousers don't get wet.

Nick: [laughs] It's just so much coverage. So yeah, I think we want to be mindful of the size of the umbrella and where we're going, which is definitely a ratio to be mindful of.

Leah: It's so funny. I love that you were like, "I'm bringing up umbrellas." And I'm like, "And I'm bringing up dog poop." We're covering our ...

Nick: Head to toe.

Leah: Head to toe. Desk to dinner.

Nick: And then eating. How do you feel about eating on the sidewalk? I feel like ...

Leah: I saw that on your list and I was like, I would never have thought of that.

Nick: I feel like you're into it or you're not against it.

Leah: I'm not against it, because sometimes you have one minute to get from something to something else and you gotta get a little something in there. You need a little nosh to continue on.

Nick: In the United States, I'm happy to do it. Like, I absolutely eat while I'm walking down the sidewalk or, like, I'll grab a banana or power bar or something like that. In Europe, I probably wouldn't do it. In Japan, I definitely wouldn't do it. Like, there's definitely places in the world.

Leah: What about an ice cream cone?

Nick: Ice cream cone?

Leah: A stroll.

Nick: Ice cream? Like a passeggiata?

Leah: Literally exactly what I was thinking.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. A passeggiata with a little gelato? Yes, how charming. Yeah, I'm on board with that. That's a lifestyle. That's not etiquette.

Leah: That's a lifestyle. [laughs]

Nick: But I think we can agree there are certain foods that are sidewalkable and some that are not. So apple, pear, banana? Fine. Peaches? No. Burger ...

Leah: Peaches are funny because they drip. You're just dripping all the way down the sidewalk.

Nick: Anything that involves utensils? Spaghetti?

Leah: I mean, it would be funny, but I mean, it would just be funny to me. I'd be like, "Wow, that person's having a five-course as they're moving."

Nick: A little degustation menu. Yeah. So yeah, I think there's a time and place, but I think we want to be neat about it. I don't want to worry about you eating and how it might affect me if I'm walking past you or next to you. So we can't be, like, splashing whatever we're eating.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. If I get spaghetti sauce on me when I walk by, that's not right.

Nick: That's not right. Yes. What is this, marinara? And then last thing on my list is solicitors. So people who want something from you, sign a petition, register to vote, buy tickets to a comedy show. Just people who want to say hi on the street.

Leah: I struggle so hard. We got got yesterday.

Nick: Oh, what happened?

Leah: It was a kid selling chocolate bars.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And she was good.

Nick: Oh, how many chocolate bars did you buy?

Leah: Only about one, but they were pricey. But she was so funny. I forget what her catchphrase was. I mean, this girl was good. Her mom was there, like, on the corner just watching. And her sales pitch. I mean, this girl was leaning in, you know what I mean? This young woman was an entrepreneur. And she was like—she'd be like—I forget what it was exactly, but she'd be like, "Wait for it," or "Let me explain." And then she's like, "I know these sound pricey, but let me break down the cost of the uniform for our teams." You know what I mean? And you're like, I would let this girl run the city. You know what I mean?

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: I just can't say no. And I'm like, you know what? I do like animals. I do want to help children. I just—I don't want to shut that off. Like, there was somebody for the parks and I was like, "Thank you so much for doing this. I'm actually already a member of the—" you know, "but thank you. And I'm late for something." I just—it's too hard for me to shut it down. I usually have to—I see it in advance and I have to cross because I have an existential crisis between my need to support people.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And my need to get where I'm going and, and not have a conversation.

Nick: Yes. This is what they're counting on.

Leah: Yes, I am—I am openly that.

Nick: Okay. Well, I guess if you're gonna do it on the sidewalk, I guess don't block the sidewalk. Although they like to be in the middle of the sidewalk to, like, block it so that you have to stop for them.

Leah: Yeah, that's their whole job.

Nick: That's the whole job, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm totally immune. I can walk past, not even flinch. I just completely ignore that you're there. And that's definitely the polite thing to do in New York City. But I can see how this gets harder in other places.

Leah: I mean, this is why I love an earphone.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I feel like I'm signaling I'm somewhere else. My ears are somewhere else right now.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I can still smile.

Nick: Okay, fine.

Leah: I hate acting like people aren't there.

Nick: That is what is required for this, though.

Leah: I know, but I hate it. I want everybody to feel seen, Nick.

Nick: [laughs] So I think in terms of sidewalk etiquette, it is fine to ignore these people. It is fine to engage if you'd like. If you do engage, pull over to the side with them.

Leah: Yeah, pull over to the side!

Nick: Don't become more of the problem. Because I see that happening. It's like, oh, now everybody's gotten caught by clipboard people and now I have to, like, shimmy by y'all. Because now you're, like, three across.

Leah: I think that the whole—if we had to say one thing about sidewalks, we had to do one thing ...

Nick: The pith, the kernel.

Leah: It wasn't like it's a common space and we're—it's in the flow, but one specific thing, it's step to the side.

Nick: Step to the side. Yeah. Yeah, if there was one takeaway, just step to the side.

Leah: Just step to the side.

Nick: Just step to the side. Okay. That's it. Just do that.

Leah: Just do that!

Nick: Just do that. How hard is that?

Leah: Seemingly very hard.

Nick: Yeah, apparently very difficult. Why is this so hard? Why do we think this is so hard?

Leah: I don't know if people—I think some people don't have spatial awareness.

Nick: Yeah. Okay.

Leah: I think some people are just so in their own, they're like, "I'm getting a text right now. I'm stopping in the middle of the thing. I'm dealing with this text."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "I am completely unaware that other people around me have needs."

Nick: [laughs] If we could solve that problem, everything would unlock from there.

Leah: I mean, literally the whole world would unlock from there.

Nick: Yeah, really all good things would flow. So let's work on that, Leah.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: So that's sidewalk etiquette. Step forth.

Leah: Step forth, step forward, step to the side.

Nick: Step to the side. Step to the side.

---

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is, quote, "When being invited over to someone's house for pizza, should I expect to chip in for the pizza, or is it the responsibility of the host? For context, a couple invited my husband and I specifically for a pizza night. They live about 45 minutes away, and we made the drive up to their house. The men left to pick up some drinks, which my husband paid for, while my friend and I stayed back to watch her two small children and order the pizza. She placed the order and then confidently told me, 'You can just Venmo me your half.' I was taken aback since she invited us over for pizza, and we made the 90-minute commute and my husband paid for the drinks—though she didn't know that at the time. I, of course, paid her the $20 because it obviously meant more to her than me in the moment, but I've had a chip on my shoulder ever since. Thoughts?"

Leah: Yeah, the host should have covered that pizza.

Nick: So wow! Just outta the gate, Leah? Wow. Okay. Next question.

Leah: Ninety minutes?

Nick: So ...

Leah: Ninety minutes. You invite me over for pizza. I just paid $1,000 for gas?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's—that's fair. Yeah. I mean, it is true. It's come over for dinner. We are the hosts. I mean, that is the rule. And I guess the question is: does the fact that it's pizza, does that change anything? Is pizza inherently a super-cazh food where that rule doesn't apply?

Leah: Apparently you've never had a Goop pizza.

Nick: I actually just had a Goop pizza.

Leah: Did you?

Nick: They just opened Goop in New York City. Yes.

Leah: I know, I saw.

Nick: So I am familiar with the Goop pizza, the Brentwood salad, the amazing arugula salad. I just had a Caesar salad from them last night. I'm a—I'm Gooping all over the place. So Goop, call us. We're happy to advertise. So yes, I am familiar with the gluten-free pizza. And so yes, that would definitely be more than $20. [laughs]

Leah: It's not casual at all. I honestly—side note for our listeners—you know, I love a side note. The ladies in my weightlifting group were talking about Goop and I go, "I'm not—I'm not a Gooper. I'm not—I'm not—I'm not Gooping."

Nick: I know you want to not be a Goop person. You want to be like, "No, Goop's not for me."

Leah: And then I saw, like, a video of a lady crying over the salad and I was like, what? And then I got one and I was like, oh, this is life-changing.

Nick: Yeah. No, it is—it is pretty good.

Leah: And it's all gluten-free.

Nick: Yeah, they're good. They are good. So I guess this wasn't Goop pizza. So this is regular pizza.

Leah: Domino's has gluten-free pizza.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: If you came over and I was like, "Nick, come over for pizza" and I ordered Domino's, it doesn't matter what the pizza, where it's from.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I asked you to come over for pizza.

Nick: Now just devil's advocate, there is a relationship where we just sort of split things because that's what that is. Like, if you told me, like, "Hey, come up for pizza, we'll watch Love Island. In my head, I'd be like, "Oh, we'll split the pizza." Like, I'll chip in for the pizza. Like, I feel like I would just do that. You're not hosting an evening of pizza for me.

Leah: But I don't think that's what this is. They're driving an hour, 90 minutes.

Nick: Yeah. The drive.

Leah: They went out to get drinks.

Nick: Yeah. The drink thing. Yeah, we contributed. Also, guests do contribute in ways that are not with money. So contributing with your time.

Leah: Time.

Nick: That should not be overlooked. And I guess that is being overlooked.

Leah: And we're coming to your house so you don't have to, like, pack up the whole family. I just, if the conversation was, "Hey, let's figure out something—we—hey, I want to do something." If you came to me and you were like, "I want to do something." And I was like, "Yeah, let's figure something out." And then we were like, "Should we go out for lunch? Should we go over this?" And you're like, "Well, why don't you swing by and then we'll just get a pizza?" That's a different conversation.

Nick: Right. Yeah. Or, like, "Come over Tuesday. Do you want to split a pizza?" That would've been the nice way to, like, say, like, "Oh, we're splitting a pizza."

Leah: Yeah. But if I was like, "Hey, we'd love to invite you over. Do you want to come over to our house for pizza?"

Nick: Yeah, it is a little different. So I think, letter-writer, you are allowed to be annoyed by this.

Leah: Be aggrieved.

Nick: Especially since you paid for drinks.

Leah: Be aggrieved.

Nick: And especially since you drove. Yeah.

Leah: Also, especially since gas is $30 a gallon right now.

Nick: So I guess if you wanted to have a script to use to say in the moment, you could have said, like, "Oh, didn't realize you wanted to split it. Let me check with my husband as we may have already covered drinks." And then you could have just, like, waited to see how that went. If you thought, like, oh, your husband's probably gonna, like, pick up the drinks. If you kind of knew that about him. Or it's $20, you just pay it, and then you just file this away. I think this is something you file in the filing cabinet about this person.

Leah: Yeah, I think it's easier to pay it and file it.

Nick: But also, is this the first time this has happened and come up in this relationship? Maybe.

Leah: Also with friends, like, I actually had a social event yesterday.

Nick: You left the house?

Leah: I left the house twice. And not for comedy. And well, one of them was like, I had a meeting and then seeing a friend. And so we met up. She's like, "Oh, let me grab your coffee." She grabbed my coffee. I go, "We can split." She goes, "I'm just getting it."

Nick: Nice.

Leah: She paid. And then we were at lunch and then I paid. I was like, "No, you got the—" and then we went for—like, to grab a little something else. She paid. It was just ...

Nick: Yeah. I mean, in certain relationships you pay, I pay. Over the lifetime of a relationship, we hope it just sort of works out.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And we do not try to actually have, like, an Excel spreadsheet where it's correct to the penny. Yeah.

Leah: So if you're driving out to my house, so ostensibly I don't have to get childcare or, you know?

Nick: Yeah. The driving part definitely changes this a little bit.

Leah: It's not like a road trip where it's like a Sunday and you're going and you're looking at the lovely, you know, wind through the fields or the apple trees. You're driving to get somewhere.

Nick: Oh, you don't think there's fields of lavender between my house and this pizza?

Leah: There might be, but my guess is that it's pizza time. And so, like, the sun is setting and I just gotta get there.

Nick: That's true. I cannot see the beautiful wheat. That's true.

Leah: This is not an enjoyable drive. This is an A-to-B drive.

Nick: Yeah. No, it's an obligation. Yeah. All right, so be annoyed and file this away, and that's great.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "My question is part vent, part question. I'm traveling for work and just requested a car service to take me home after dropping off my rental car. In the five minutes I've been in the car, my driver has been blaring music without asking my preferences, is eating something with a strong smell, and just now answered her phone and is having a full-length conversation holding her phone in one hand while driving with my life in her other. I don't condone any of these behaviors in a ride I am paying for. Is there a polite way to express ride preferences to a driver who clearly doesn't seem to care what my preferences are? Is it rude of me to think she should even care?"

Leah: I feel our letter-writer so hard.

Nick: Yeah. And this is being written to us in the moment. We are mid-ride here. And unfortunately, I was not by my email at this time to write back in real time to offer some real-time comfort.

Leah: What would the real-time comfort have been?

Nick: Well, I would've said, like, "It is not unreasonable to not want to die. So, like, I'm with you. I agree. That is not unreasonable."

Leah: Why are you eating and driving when you're the Lyft driver with one hand?

Nick: And I would probably say, like, let's prioritize what is important in this moment to correct. So the safety thing, let's start there. Music that I don't like, a strong smelling food? Like, I can deprioritize that but, like, let's get 10 and 2 going. Let's focus on the road. Let's hang up the phone. Let's drive. So I would probably focus my request on that, which is like, "Hey, so sorry. I'm a bit of a nervous passenger. Would it be possible to finish that phone call later and focus on the road?" We like that?

Leah: I think it sounds very logical and fair. Would I say it? No. I would get there and then I would change my preferences to quiet car.

Nick: Well, for all we know, we did have those preferences and they were just ignored.

Leah: Holding her phone in her hand while driving? That's not even legal.

Nick: Everybody knows you shouldn't be doing that.

Leah: No, it's dangerous. It's dangerous to you. It's dangerous to the other cars. And this person is not a professional, but they are in the job of a professional driver.

Nick: Yes. So it is not unreasonable to want to have a certain level of service. In terms of the other complaints, I think you could say, like, "Oh, it's been a long travel day. Would you mind bringing the music down?" I think that's fair. It's a nice way to say it.

Leah: Yeah. It's just getting your senses assaulted when you get into a vehicle.

Nick: Yeah. This is all the senses, right?

Leah: It's all the senses. It's smell, it's noise, it's ...

Nick: I guess we didn't have taste, thankfully. [laughs]

Leah: Well, unfortunately, sense of smell.

Nick: That's true. That's true.

Leah: I get very nauseous from certain smells because I taste it in my mouth.

Nick: Yeah. So yeah, no, this was an assault on all the senses. Yeah. And so I can see why this was super unpleasant. And yes, this was rude. This was rude for this person that you are paying for a certain minimum level of service to not provide that. And so I agree.

Leah: It's rude. It's unsafe. And so I think unsafe should be first.

Nick: Unsafe. That's what I would prioritize. Like, I could live with bad music blasting as long as I felt like I wasn't about to die.

Leah: And it's so crazy that in this world we have to be like, "Hey, I'm a bit of a nervous driver," like, putting it on ourselves to have a polite conversation instead of being like, "I feel unsafe right now. Could you please focus?" That's what you want to' say. And you should be able to say that.

Nick: Yes. I don't love that I made my example such that I really put the burden on myself.

Leah: No, but I understand why you did that. You're lubricating the situation.

Nick: But I wish I didn't have to. I wish society didn't require that to soften this, to make you feel better about your rude behavior and your bad driving, that somehow I have to make this my problem. Like, you're not the problem. It's my nervousness, my unreasonable desire to not die in this car ride. That's the problem here.

Leah: I think that would be a funny thing to say. "My unreasonable desire to not die is really flaring up right now."

Nick: "So would it be an imposition to indulge me?"

Leah: I have such a car safety issue.

Nick: Health and safety always trumps etiquette.

Leah: I'm not above being like, "Hey, I gotta get out. Have the rest of the fare. I just don't feel safe in this car. You're not paying attention."

Nick: That's, I think, important to note, too. Yeah, get out of the situation. Yeah. Etiquette does not require you to stick it out.

Leah: I've definitely, and this really came up against my—what am I doing, Nick?

Nick: You are banging your fists together.

Leah: So that's—these are my two needs hitting each other.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So it's been so hard for me to say because of my inherent want to make everybody feel comfortable.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: But I've been on gigs where the ride out, the person is just a bad driver. They don't pay attention. They—they're not taking—they're on the phone, they're not taking driving safely and then being like, "I'm not riding back with you."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think that's really smart. Yeah.

Leah: Like, you're allowed to protect yourself.

Nick: So to answer your original question, what would I have said in the moment? I would be like, let's prioritize the safety thing. You can have a couple different paths—super direct, a little more passive. I think your idea of, like, let's end the ride, let's just get out. I think any of those are great options. And then yeah, if you want to address some of the other comfort issues, then there's a polite way to do that. Or you just tough it out.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: So you out there, do you have any questions for us? Oh yes, you do! Send them to us. Send them to us through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message, (267) CALL-RBW.

---

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I was struggling between a vent or a repent. I couldn't tell which I felt more, the vent or the repent. And I'm gonna—I'm gonna lean into the vent.

Nick: Okay, let's hear it. What has happened?

Leah: I'm—we've established I'm in a busy area.

Nick: Yeah. No, this has been very well established.

Leah: So I'm driving up Highland, which is a big street.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: At rush hour.

Nick: Okay. So some time between the hour of 1:00 pm and 7:00 pm. [laughs]

Leah: Somewhere between the hour of 1:00 pm and 11:00 pm.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: This is the road with the Hollywood Bowl on it.

Nick: Right, yes.

Leah: And so it's wild. And I'm taking—myself and many other drivers are hanging a right onto Franklin.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I have the light. I turn. There's a car parked, not up flush against the sidewalk. They're on the corner, as if you can park on a corner.

Nick: Oh, they're, like, robbing a bank?

Leah: It looked like they were robbing a bank.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And the door was open.

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: The door's open, so it's all the way into the lane.

Nick: Wonderful.

Leah: So now we all have to—on a corner, on one of the busiest streets in the world ...

Nick: Make a very wide ...

Leah: ... pull into the other people's lane. But you can't see it, because they're far enough around the corner that you can't tell they're there until you get around the corner.

Nick: Okay. So this seems unsafe.

Leah: It is so dangerous. So then I assume, oh, this person must be getting out of their car really quickly. This must be a thing where they're getting out of their car fast and they're about to shut the door. And that's still egregious but not a felony. She's just parked there. There's no accident. And then she's just on her cell phone.

Nick: With the door open?

Leah: With the door wide open.

Nick: Wide into the intersection?

Leah: Yep. Just talking on her cell. And it's a casual talk. You can tell by the body language.

Nick: So this wasn't like, "Oh, I just had an accident. This is where I'm stuck. I'm calling AAA." That's not what this is.

Leah: No. Also, if you were stuck, you would still shut your door.

Nick: Yeah, I wouldn't want to make things more dangerous. Yeah.

Leah: There's moving traffic. What are you doing? What's happening right now? I was like—Dustin was in the car and I lose my temper. I go, "Should I pull over and talk to her about, like, the danger?

Nick: Oh yeah, get involved. Yeah, that's what we do.

Leah: That's literally—he goes, "Yeah, let's turn around and have that conversation." And I go, "You know, when you say it that way, I realize—I realize it's a bad idea."

Nick: So speaking of bad ideas, I would like to vent. So it finally happened. The thing I didn't think would happen to me, because I thought I was exempt, but turns out no. So I am walking down the street, New York City, heading to the subway, and somebody, random person on the street, yells to me—me specifically—"Hey, you should smile more."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And ...

Leah: I'm so glad you got one.

Nick: I was like, I didn't realize—I didn't realize that that could happen. And now I get how you feel. I get it. What is that?

Leah: How could I have not been there for this?

Nick: Like, what is that? Why do people say that? It's so rude.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: It's so rude. Yeah.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: I was just, like, so caught off guard and I was like, yes, I wasn't smiling. Yeah. It's New York City. I'm walking to the subway. Like, I'm not gonna smile for you.

Leah: I'm not gonna—I'm not here as a window dressing.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm thinking.

Nick: Yeah, this is what I look like when I'm not engaged with you, stranger person. Yeah, it was so wild. And so yeah, I guess I understand what millions and millions of women have experienced for the last couple thousand years. [laughs]

Leah: Over and over and over again. What did you say? What did you do?

Nick: I didn't say anything. I think I'd turn around just to be like, "Is that for me?"

Leah: Is that real?

Nick: Probably glared. Glaring was probably—I certainly didn't smile. Yeah. But I was like, oh, how rude!

Leah: I just imagined myself as a bird overlooking this situation. What a dream to be able to see that.

Nick: Yeah. So I get it now. I get it. And I'm sorry. Sorry on behalf of all men.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So that's my vent.

Leah: Oh, it's funny because I might also count it as a repent. You're sorry on behalf of all men.

Nick: Yeah. I—oh, I'm gonna count that as a repent.

Leah: I'm gonna say you can count that as one if you're listening.

Nick: I will. I will. On behalf of all men, I apologize for every man who's told a woman she should smile more. Every time. I apologize. Hope that does the trick.

Leah: I hope that you—I mean, imagine how many repents you can count that as.

Nick: Oh yeah. Oh, I can count each time? Oh, couple trillion. I mean, how many times?

Leah: At the end of the year, Nick's gonna be, "I had nine billion repents."

Nick: [laughs] How many times over history do you think a man has told a woman she should smile more? Can we put a number on that?

Leah: The limit does not exist.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Because it would—it can't just be smile. It has to be like all the machinations of smile more, like all the versions of that through the ages.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. What is it in Old English?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: What is it in Sumerian? What is it in hieroglyphics? Yeah. No really, it's true. So that's my repent.

Leah: [laughs]

---

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that Emily Post had a motorist book.

Nick: Sure did.

Leah: And I mean, she came in hot. Hot!

Nick: She came in hot, yeah. But good thing you're a good parker, so ...

Leah: I mean, I'm only a good parker under duress.

Nick: Well, whatever it takes. And I learned that you like Goop pizza.

Leah: I really do. And it's been a new thing, and it was like a—I didn't know, and I was like, I can't. And then, wow, can I!

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, I want you to go and do the journey again. I want you to go back to episode one, and I want you just to experience the journey.

Leah: That's so funny. I'm like, "Don't listen, we're finding ourselves," and you're like, "Go in, go in."

Nick: Go in, yeah. No, those early episodes, they're different. We talk slower, there's a guest. There was a time before Chad and Lisa existed, and it's kind of fun to sort of like go through that journey. So if you've never done the full catalog, go back. Go back to episode one. Let me know your thoughts. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

---

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: Okay, so this cordials of kindness goes out to a group of people that I actually don't know.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: But you know I'm in all these dogs groups.

Nick: Yeah, sure.

Leah: And this is just sort of my faith in humanity has entirely been restored. This is more than 30 seconds, Nick, and you're just gonna have to hold on.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: This woman lost her home. She was living in her car with her kids and their dog, and then she got it—she was able to get a new job, and then put them in a hotel, but then they couldn't stay in the hotels during the day. And so they had to put the dog in this shelter. The dog started falling apart. He only wanted to be with the family. The shelter was like, "We're gonna have to euthanize this dog." The mom kept coming to visit. It was so sad. She was doing her best. She's keeping this whole family going. And the dog was supposed to be euthanized today. And in the middle of the night, this group was like, let's get these people into a long-term. And it's just thousands of people on the internet giving $5 for this woman they've never met. And then when I woke up this morning, they'd saved the dog. This woman is back with her dog and her kids, and they're in a long-term stay. And I was like, even though the world is falling apart, humanity can come together for strangers.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And change somebody's situation. And I'm sad that we have to do that, that we're in a world where, like, everybody has to give $5 to pay for someone's healthcare or their home. But I'm so glad that people show up for other people, and it makes me so grateful. And it made me cry a little bit, to be completely honest. And I think it's really beautiful.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it is nice to be reminded that there is an inherent goodness in all of us.

Leah: There really is.

Nick: Like, that really is sort of all of our default setting.

Leah: And people just want people to have their family together. And oh, I just think it's beautiful. And it's nice when people come together for others. And I'm so grateful.

Nick: Well, I'm very grateful for this lovely email we got and it's quote. "I love and greatly appreciate your show. Your show brings levity, education, lightness and joy at critical moments during otherwise stressful days. I'm a Catholic priest, and I currently officiate many funerals for former military members. After particularly emotional funerals, I often turn to your show to put a smile on my face for the next family. I frequently recommend your show to others in stressful vocations. Thank you."

Leah: That is such a lovely thing to say.

Nick: Isn't that lovely that we can be there to sort of make a bad day better? That's really nice.

Leah: And also thank you to our priest who's, like, being there for families in such hard times. And then I'm glad that we can be there for them in hard times.

Nick: Yeah. So thank you. Really appreciate it.

Leah: That's lovely.