Jumping Over Babies, Asking Callers to Announce Themselves, Giving Plants Without Pots, and More

Nick: Do you screen all your calls? Do you make people bring their own pots? Do you schedule appointments you don't intend to keep? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about El Colacho. Do you know what this is?

Leah: Colacho.

Nick: Oh, come now, Leah.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: You do know what this is.

Leah: I do?

Nick: You do. So I want to talk about this annual festival—let me know when it sparks your memory—that takes place in a tiny village in Spain.

Leah: Oh! Yes. So sorry. What was I thinking?

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: What was I thinking?

Nick: So this is a tiny little village in Spain, about a two-hour drive southwest of Bilbao. And this festival, it dates back to the 1600s, and Pope Gregory XV actually granted it papal approval in 1621. So it's at least been since then, but I'm sure much longer. And it is part of the celebration of the Feast of Corpus Christi, which usually is in May or June. And the centerpiece of this festival is El Salto del Colacho, which translates as the jumping of the devil.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And what this festival is is men dressed as the devil. And when I say "devil," this is more of like a Carnivàle type of devil. This is not like a biblical devil. This is more like a troublemaker kind of devil. And they're in red and yellow costumes, and they are causing trouble in the town. And basically, at the end of this festival, we take all of the infants that have been born in the village in the last 12 months, and we put them on mattresses and the devils jump over the mattresses with the babies.

Leah: So their feet don't touch the mattresses. They jump all the way over the mattress.

Nick: Correct. Yes. Yes.

Leah: Right. So they're not bouncing the babies.

Nick: They are not doing that. And in more than 400 years, apparently there has never been any recorded instance of any baby being harmed. The only people that have ever gotten injured apparently are the people jumping who have, like, pulled a hamstring.

Leah: Well, this really—because in my mind they were, like, on the mattress, and the babies were, like, bouncing.

Nick: Nope. Nope. Nope.

Leah: This feels so much safer.

Nick: Yeah. There's just a series of mattresses on the street, and then the people run and then jump over the mattress and then—it's like almost like hurdles.

Leah: Yes, I get it now.

Nick: And the idea is that by jumping over the mattress, you are sort of taking original sin, you're purifying, you're protecting them from misfortune. And so that's kind of the idea behind this.

Leah: It's like a good luck to the babies?

Nick: Yes, it's a good luck thing. And it probably came out of a pagan fertility sort of festival that kind of got merged into a Catholic rite. And so that's kind of where this comes from. And it has sort of a christening feel to it, a baptism feel. And this is actually one of the reasons why Pope Benedict XVI wasn't into it, because he felt like only baptism actually cleanses original sin and, like, this is not that. And so he actually asked the local Spanish priests to, like, stop doing this or, like, back away from this or, like, not support this. But obviously, that didn't go over big. And so what they do in the town now is after the jumping happens, the local priest then comes and blesses all the babies with holy water. And so this is sort of like the way they can sort of square that circle.

Leah: Merge.

Nick: Merge. And so I think from an etiquette point of view, a question is how can you visit and participate in a respectful way? Because yes, this is a festival, this is fun, but this is also a serious religious ceremony. And so it's very important to sort of keep that in mind.

Leah: Right. So don't stand, like, directly in front of them shooting a phone selfie being, like, "And now we're jumping babies!"

Nick: Yeah, definitely don't do that. And participate. You know, there's actually a processional that takes place first, and the devils that run around town, they have, like, horsehair whips that they playfully sort of whip people with. And you're actually supposed to tease them and berate them. This is part of it, the idea of, like, when you berate them, you're sort of giving yourself good luck for the year. And so that's very important. So don't just stand there silently filming them, like, yell back. And I'm sure you'll hear phrases that other people are using that you could also use if you'd like. So it's important to participate.

Leah: Oh, wow! Get involved, insult people!

Nick: Yeah! Yeah, get into it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Absolutely. And you can't bring your own baby. And I think I just want to clarify that unless you have a connection to the town, it is not BYOB.

Leah: [laughs] I was literally gonna say, "Not BYOB." That's so funny. You cannot bring your own baby.

Nick: You cannot bring your own baby. Now I think there actually probably is an exception that if you make contact with the group that organizes this every year, and you express your interest and you explain, like, how you understand what this is and how important it is to you, and you want to participate for the blessing aspect of it. I think there is a world in which they might, like, welcome you to do that, but it cannot just be like, "Oh, I'm a tourist and I just wanna bring my baby for this."

Leah: Right.

Nick: So just know that you're not gonna bring your own baby.

Leah: Don't show up with a baby.

Nick: Don't show up with a baby and expect to participate. Right.

Leah: Don't show up with a baby unannounced.

Nick: Yeah. And I think that's good advice for a lot of things, but definitely for this ceremony. Yes.

Leah: I mean, this was by demand, this amuse bouche.

Nick: Yes. Well, I mean, I teased it because I really just want to talk about it. Because I love things like this, that for us, this is not part of our tradition, but I love that this exists, and I love that it's part of their tradition. And I feel like by understanding this tradition, you have a better understanding of this culture, and why it's important to them and how it fits into a larger picture of Spanish identity.

Nick: Because there's other festivals in Spain that also to the outside feel like, oh wow, that's wild. Like the tomato festival or the running of the bulls. But why I want to talk about this is it's very important to talk about other people's traditions in a respectful way and not treat them as sort of oddities. And so I think it's just important to know that this exists, be curious about it, be interested in it, but not think of it as sort of this "other" thing. And that we also have traditions that we do that also feel very other to other people, and all of them are okay, and all of them are wonderful and all of them should be celebrated. So that's really why I wanted to talk about this today.

Leah: I think that's terrific.

Nick: And then afterwards there's food and wine, so it's a great festival.

Leah: Would it be really weird if I just thought of an amuse bouche I wanted to do for you?

Nick: No, I think that's wonderful. I mean, how many episodes in, Leah?

Leah: I think roughly this is 294 episodes.

Nick: [laughs] Give or take.

Leah: Give or take.

Nick: So yeah, I would love an amuse bouche. Do you want to do the next one?

Leah: I'll do the next one.

Nick: Okay. And it'll be a surprise for me.

Leah: Well, I don't—I honestly don't think anything will be a surprise to you, Nick. You'll immediately get it, but it's in this realm.

Nick: Oh, now I'm intrigued! Okay. All right. You're on, Leah. Make it good.

Leah: Oh my God! I actually just felt like I got chills down my back.

Nick: Oh, no pressure. But don't blow it! [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and unidentified.

Nick: Ooh! So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about a new feature that the iPhone has which screens your calls.

Leah: And I didn't know about it. Nick sent me the how-to video on it, and I was—I'm shocked.

Nick: So basically here's how it works—and I think other operating systems have something similar. I don't think this is unique to iPhone. So let's say you call me and I don't have your number saved in my phone. I can turn on a setting that will ask you to announce yourself and explain why you're calling me. And as you're doing that, my phone actually will have a transcript of this pop up, so it's gonna translate your words and I'll be able to see what you're saying. And then I can decide whether or not I want to accept the call or send it to voicemail.

Leah: Well, on top of that, you can respond in text, "Can you give me more information?"

Nick: Oh, can you? Oh, I didn't know that part!

Leah: And then send it to voicemail.

Nick: [laughs] Wow! Oh, I didn't know about that detail.

Leah: Because one example was the person saying, "I'm busy right now, let me call you back." Like, you can respond in real time.

Nick: Yeah, I've gotten those.

Leah: So one of the options was like, you ask what more details, they give you the details, and then you can send them to voicemail. Like, you've made it extra clear.

Nick: Oh! Oh! The dagger to my heart!

Leah: Yeah, right?

Nick: There is also a related feature that we should talk about, which is the live voicemail. And that's where you've just called me, it went to voicemail, and it's gonna transcribe your voicemail same way, and then I can choose to actually interrupt you leaving me a message and talk to you live if I want.

Leah: Oh, what's so funny is I didn't realize that was a feature. I didn't understand why it kept happening on my phone.

Nick: Oh, this is what this is. Yeah. So if somebody's leaving you a voicemail, and you're like, "Oh, actually I do want to talk to Leah right now," I can just jump on and then actually we're connected.

Leah: Because what will happen to me is I don't—I keep my phone off, so the ringer's off. So I'll have missed the call, and then I'll see, "Oh, blankety blank is leaving a message." And then I'll be like, "Oh, it looks like I can still pick up." And then I'll pick up. I didn't even realize this was a feature.

Nick: Yeah. So obviously we have feelings about this. So why is it catching us as sort of like, oh, we don't like this?

Leah: Because it feels hurtful.

Nick: It does feel a little hurtful. Yeah.

Leah: Although, I mean, if someone's number's not saved, it's—there's so much spam out there now. And not even just spam, a lot of it's like aggressive callers.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: That, like, get you by scaring you up top. So it's sort of a way to filter that. But also the other way to filter that is to just not pick up at all.

Nick: Right. And there's a whole generation of people who live amongst us who just don't pick up the phone anymore. They don't want to make phone calls, they don't want to receive phone calls. This is a whole text-based generation. They're terrified of having to pick up the phone.

Leah: I'm pretty much right there.

Nick: Yeah. Well, you have a very youthful spirit.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But yeah, the screening the call, because the message it sends is like, "Hey, you're calling and I don't want to talk to you." That's—that's the message.

Leah: Well, what it also says is—yes, that is the message, but, like, it says, "I'm here, I'm looking at my phone," as opposed to "I'm just not available right now. I'm not looking at my phone at all."

Nick: Right. Now I think they don't know that you're looking. Like, they don't know if you're there or not. But if I'm calling you and I'm asked to state my purpose and reason for existing, and then it goes to voicemail, part of me is gonna feel like, oh, you saw that and you don't wanna talk to me right now.

Leah: Well, definitely if you do a follow-up question and then send it to voicemail, it's a hundred percent for sure.

Nick: Yeah, for sure. I mean, then it's like, oh yes, you are there. You absolutely acknowledged that you are there and you still don't want to talk to me.

Leah: I just hate the idea of people's feelings being hurt.

Nick: Now I do think you're not in my phone, and so very good chance that this is fine. I mean, you're basically screening unknown calls, which okay, I mean, I don't want to live in a world in which I have to, like, answer the phone.

Leah: I mean, I'm not answering the phone point blank.

Nick: Right.

Leah: So I guess for me, that just seems more like blanket fair then. But it's also my phone. I mean, there's so many feelings here, because it is my phone and you are calling from an unknown number, and 85 percent chance you are spamming me.

Nick: 99 percent chance.

Leah: Yeah, right. 99.9 percent chance you're spamming me.

Nick: Right. I guess why it bothers me is that I'm creating more work for you as the caller. Like, instead of just getting my voicemail and leaving me a message, I'm making you jump through an extra hoop, which is like, who are you and why are you calling? And then it's like, now leave me a voicemail. And so it's like—you know, I guess for a spammer, who cares? Let's waste your time. But for everybody else, it's like, oh, I don't love that.

Leah: Like a doctor's office.

Nick: Right? Yeah.

Leah: I guess if I felt like—because I saw that second feature where you can get into, like, a text conversation with this person, that's really for me the ouch-y part. Like, if everybody knew that on everybody's phones, if it's an unknown number, it's gonna ask you to state your business, and then you will go to voicemail, that's totally different.

Nick: Right. Yes. If that were the default standard for everybody. Right. But because this is new, not everybody's using this feature, it does feel pointed.

Leah: It feels pointed, especially if you—there's then a follow-up conversation and then you go to voicemail.

Nick: And the live voicemail thing bothers me because let's say I'm leaving you a voicemail and then you pick up. I do feel like, oh, you were screening, and then it was important enough for you. Okay, fine. But then if I call you again in the future and you don't do that, part of me is like, "Interesting."

Leah: I think on that one you should assume that people are more like a Leah, where they weren't looking at their phone and then they were like, "Oh, did Nick call me?" And then you just pick up and you were like, "Oh, it was in a voicemail." And it was more just a complete accident.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess I like these features as the person who is being called. It's when I'm doing the calling, I guess I don't love these features, because I just don't like to be rejected. And it does feel like rejection.

Leah: It's so funny, because I don't like to reject people.

Nick: So this is why you don't want to use these features.

Leah: Yeah, I don't want people to feel hurt.

Nick: Right. Yeah. But it is interesting how this technology is intersecting with etiquette.

Leah: It is. It's very interesting.

Nick: Because is it like being at my house, and then somebody knocks on my door, and then the question is: do I know them or do I not know them? Am I expecting this person to knock at my door? Is this a stranger and is this random? Is that a parallel?

Leah: Well, I was thinking about it, because if there's somebody at my door and I don't know them and I'm not expecting anybody, I'm not opening my door.

Nick: Oh, I play possum all the time. Yeah. In my building here in New York, in my apartment building, if you just knock on my door? Uh-uh. No. I'm not expecting you? I'm not expecting a delivery? Nope, I get very quiet and I pretend I'm not here and I hope you go away.

Leah: Yeah, because we don't want to get murdered.

Nick: Yeah, and also, like, have the doorman call up if you need me.

Leah: [laughs] Have the doorman call up.

Nick: Have the doorman call me. They have my number. What are you doing knocking on my door?

Leah: I'll say something. I'll say, "Hey, can I help you?" But I'm not opening the door to a stranger. But that's also—I'm not—I'm not picking up a call that's an unknown number.

Nick: Okay. So I guess that's the same thing. So it's really screening people you know. I guess that's really the problem. When you have a relationship where the power is not in balance. Because in screening a call from a spammer or a business, the power is with you, the person receiving the call. But in a relationship where it's equal, like, there should be equality there. And when you screen calls, you're kind of throwing off that power imbalance. And I guess maybe that's what it is for me, that, like, the screening of the call just throws that off.

Leah: Well, it's not going to screen people whose phone number you have.

Nick: No, I guess that's the live voicemail part.

Leah: I honestly think that you shouldn't feel screened by that. You should just feel like these people get to the phone slower.

Nick: Okay. I'll feel better about it then.

Leah: For real.

Nick: Okay. So where are we coming down on this?

Leah: I think we've come down in this weird place where it's like, we understand people don't want to get spammed and we want people to protect themselves, but that it does get weird if you are doing it, asking people questions and then sending them to voicemail.

Nick: Yes. I guess that is weird.

Leah: And they're, like, real people, not spammers.

Nick: Are you sure that's really a feature?

Leah: Yeah, I watched videos.

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And the person in the video was like a DoorDash delivery person.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And so then the person came back and goes, "Oh, okay. I'll come let you in." They texted that and then they went.

Nick: Okay. So wow. Okay, I guess technology making our lives better.

Leah: Or even just not pick up the phone.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, don't call me. What are you doing?

Leah: Also, who's looking at their phone all the time?

Nick: Well, I mean, I am.

Leah: I most certainly am not.

Nick: Yeah. Well, I know.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "We have a friend who is part of a small yoga group that we host at our home on some weekends. We provide the space, and pay for the yoga teacher and invite a small group of friends to join in. We can only fit about six people in the space and the group is fairly consistent, but when we have room, we try to invite a new person in. The yoga group works because everyone is very supportive and respectful of each other. We recently had to take a hiatus with the yoga group, but we plan to bring it back soon. This friend—let's call him Chad—he recently went on a trip and met a woman—let's call her Lisa. They had a brief fling, but Chad said he ultimately had to escape because he found Lisa's life to be very chaotic. Once Chad returned home, he was very busy for a while and we didn't hear from him. We find out that Lisa has moved in with him, and we finally got to meet her last weekend at my husband's birthday party. She was just as chaotic as he had told us. She quickly got very sloppy, and generally made everything about her. She got intoxicated and messy and other guests steered clear of her.

Nick: "I'm concerned for our friend, but he's an adult and can make his own decisions. But now that we're starting the yoga group up again, we have a dilemma: Chad was one of the most dedicated people in the group, but I don't feel comfortable inviting his new girlfriend. Her energy is the opposite of what the group is all about. How can I explain this to Chad without hurting his feelings or seeming unsupportive? I could tell him that there's not enough room to bring in another person, but he would know that isn't true. Should I be honest and risk alienating him? He's been a great friend as well, and I don't want to lose that. Help!"

Leah: I think this is a great question.

Nick: It's a great question. Yeah.

Leah: I see two routes.

Nick: Okay?

Leah: I think with friends—and I've been thinking about this a lot—our best option—because we really can't control how what we say makes people feel.

Nick: Right.

Leah: But what we can do is be kindly honest.

Nick: Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think there is a difference between brutal honesty and tact.

Leah: Yes. There are those people that are like, "I was just being honest," and it's like, no, you were being mean.

Nick: Yeah. That's not a get-out-of-etiquette-jail-free card. Yeah. No, you still need tact. So yes, I think honesty is the best policy. I mean, because I don't want to lie. You can't lie. You're not gonna get away with that.

Leah: You can't lie to your friend.

Nick: No. So, like, that's off the table.

Leah: And that'll—that'll always blow back on you.

Nick: Yeah. No good ever comes of that. So yeah, just take that off the table. But my first question is: Are we assuming Lisa wants to do yoga? Like, is that even on the table? Is Lisa somebody who wants to do yoga?

Leah: Well, the thing is is that sometimes it's hard to invite people and say, "Hey, you're invited, but Lisa can't come." Like whether or not she wants to do yoga, when you invite somebody, if they're in a partnership, you probably feel like you have to invite both people.

Nick: Yeah, that's true. Yes, hosting does sort of require to treat couples as units. True.

Leah: The other option is to just not invite Chad at all.

Nick: Oh, but I don't think our letter-writer wants to do that, because he was such a good part of the group.

Leah: No, I know. I'm just saying that's the other option. I don't even ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So I think that the only option is to just have a direct conversation with Chad, that we find a way to do it tactfully.

Nick: I mean, could we find out if Lisa even likes yoga, though? Could we, like, have dinner with them and be like, "Hey Lisa, so how do you feel about warrior one?" And see what she says. Like, maybe she doesn't do yoga.

Leah: You could try that. My guess is that even if she didn't do yoga and we invited both of them, she would come.

Nick: So okay, "Hey Chad, we are restarting the group and would love to have you. We're keeping it to the same OG regulars as before. It seems to just work best for us. Let us know if you'd like to come."

Leah: Okay. And then I'm Chad and I say, "Can we squeeze in one more person?"

Nick: So to that I would say, "Oh, Chad, you remember Lisa from my husband's birthday party? I don't know if that's the vibe for our yoga group, right?"

Leah: Yeah. I think that that's the thing. Like, Lisa got sloppy at your husband's birthday party.

Nick: Yeah. And I think Chad knows that, right?

Leah: Chad knows that.

Nick: Chad knows that. I mean, Chad has even admitted Lisa is chaotic. That's why you actually broke up with her the first time.

Leah: So if he gets mad about it, it's more that he's—he doesn't not know.

Nick: I mean, on some level, hosts get to determine the guest list. That is your prerogative, you know? You're hosting this thing. It's up to you to decide who you want in your house. So I think you could maybe set that polite boundary, which is like, "Hey, Chad. Would love to have you. Unfortunately, Lisa isn't bringing the right yoga vibes for this group. Hope you understand."

Leah: You would even say something like, "You know, we're so excited that you and Lisa are working out. We don't feel like she's like the yoga vibe because she—" I mean, she clearly upset a few people at the birthday party, and those people are presumably going to be in the yoga group.

Nick: So yes, it is provocative to invite only one half of a couple, but etiquette decisions have etiquette consequences. And so you can make that decision, and the consequence may be that Chad's gonna have feelings about it and is gonna be mad. And then you just have to decide is Chad being mad worth not having Lisa in your yoga group? That's the calculus.

Leah: And on top of that, you wouldn't do this if she didn't come to a birthday party and get sloppy and act out at people. So this is sort of the consequence of her actions.

Nick: That's also true. Yes. Her etiquette decisions had etiquette consequences. And this is one of those consequences.

Leah: I will say I have had a Lisa in my history.

Nick: Mmm?

Leah: And I knew this was the behavior. And because I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I didn't step in and say, "You can come, but Lisa can't come." And it got proportionately worse every time.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then—and then Lisa had to go.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it was a much bigger deal than had I dealt with it in the beginning.

Nick: Yeah. So I guess maybe there's a lesson there.

Leah: And sometimes I tell myself as somebody who hates upsetting people, I'm just being honest. This is because something has already happened. This is a responsible reaction to her behavior. And if they get a little bit upset, we can all live with it. People get upset, friends have arguments, they move on.

Nick: Yeah. And I think the yoga aspect of this is actually very material.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Because a small yoga group like this is inherently about the vibe and the group and the community. Like, that is inherent into the yoga-ness. If this were a dinner party and you're like, okay, we can have a guest that might be a little out of control but, like, we can manage that. Okay. But, like, yoga, this will fundamentally make everybody have a bad time if Lisa's ill-behaved.

Leah: Yeah. When I first read this, my first thought was, this is not karaoke. This is like a quiet, Zen environment.

Nick: Now I think what you could do is, you know, whenever you're taking something away, you could offer something in exchange, which is we're not gonna do yoga with you, but let's do brunch. So, like, we still want to socialize with you. We want to get to know Lisa, but we just don't want to get to know Lisa in this context.

Leah: I love that. Because I think that we could actually present this to Chad like, "You get it." You know what I mean? You were there at the birthday party. Like, you get it.

Nick: You were there.

Leah: So you could just be like, "You know, we'd love to have you. Lisa doesn't really feel like the right fit for the yoga, but we'd love to go out to lunch with the both of you."

Nick: Yeah, exactly. And I think that seems nice. That seems nice. I like that.

Leah: That feels really good.

Nick: Yeah, that does feel good. All right, letter-writer, give that a whirl. Let us know.

Leah: Let us know!

Nick: So our next question is quote, "What's the etiquette for gifting houseplants during a move? A friend of mine is moving internationally and can't take her plants. She asked me if I would like the plants and I said yes. Before bringing the plants to my apartment, she texted me to say, 'Don't forget to have your pots ready.' If I'm doing the favor of accepting her plants that she would otherwise have to sell or rehome, shouldn't the pots come with her plants? On the other hand, I can see the situation as she's doing me a favor by giving me free houseplants. Thoughts?"

Leah: I immediately thought she should be bringing the pots.

Nick: I mean, what are these pots? Are these Ming Dynasty cloisonné? Like, what is happening?

Leah: Are they made out of gold? Also, she asked you, "Can you take my plants?"

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You didn't say, "Can I have your plants?"

Nick: Yeah. And the default setting for plants is that they come with pots. That's the default setting. And so if we are not gonna be using the default setting, then you have to say that way in advance. "Hey, do you want to take my plants? I won't be giving you the pots."

Leah: Yeah, definitely. I also want to say, so when we moved from New York to Los Angeles, we had a plant that we love very much. Robert Plant.

Nick: Rubber?

Leah: Robert Plant was his name. From Led Zeppelin.

Nick: Oh. Oh, okay. [laughs] I'm like, rubber plant? No, no. Robert.

Leah: Robert Plant.

Nick: Bobby. Okay.

Leah: And so Kendra Cunningham, who we all know from our first live shows, he's fantastic, volunteered to take Robert.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I felt like Kendra was doing me the hugest favor because otherwise I'm gonna have to give Robert to a stranger.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Or I'm gonna have to throw Robert away.

Nick: Ugh!

Leah: And now Robert has a great home, and she randomly sends me pictures of Robert living his best life and she says, "Love from Bob."

Nick: Nice.

Leah: But she's doing me a favor. I'm not like, "Hey, I'm gonna throw you some dirt and if you could—" you know?

Nick: Right. So if you're not gonna give the pot, you just have to make that very clear, and then I'll decide if I want to accept plants that I now have to, like, find pots for.

Leah: Yeah, I think it's very weird that they would be like, "Do you have your pots ready?"

Nick: Yeah. It's like, "Oh, do you want this milk that I have in the fridge, because I'm going out of town and I'm not gonna drink it all." And then, like, "Make sure you have your own container." [laughs] "I'm gonna have to pour it, because I want to take the carton back." I assume it's a carton.

Leah: Well, they must be in at least plastic containers. They're just not in the full ceramic pot. I mean, how else are they gonna carry them over?

Nick: No, I think the idea is I'm bringing the plants to your house. I'm gonna transfer these plants to your pots.

Leah: And take my pots back.

Nick: Because I'm moving internationally, and I'll use my pots, and I'll get new plants and I'll put them in my old pots.

Leah: But I'm gonna carry the pots? I'm carrying my own pots internationally?

Nick: I mean, I don't know. I mean, otherwise, what am I doing with these pots?

Leah: I don't understand. I think you give me the pots. I think Nick said is what it is. If you're not giving me the pots with the plants, that should have been up top.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, default setting. Pots. Avec pots.

Leah: Avec pot.

Nick: Con pots.

Leah: If somebody texted me that, "You have your pots ready?" I'd be like, "Oh, no. I don't have pots."

Nick: [laughs] You're like, "You're sans pots?"

Leah: [laughs] Sans pots?

Nick: And you're like, "I thought this was gonna be "Avec pots."

Leah: [laughs] I think you just totally say it that way.

Nick: Yeah, I think that is the text response here. You'd be like, "Sans pots?" Sad face. Yeah.

Leah: I think the sad face knocks it home.

Nick: Yeah. So letter-writer, you are not in the wrong here. You should be receiving pots with these plants. Yes, you are receiving free plants, but you're also doing this person a huge favor. And so I feel like that is not being acknowledged by you having to source your own pots here.

Leah: Yeah. You're pot sourcing, and they asked you.

Nick: Yeah. That's also material. You didn't go to them and be like, "Hey, I know you're moving. Can I have your plants?"

Leah: They were like, "Hey, do you want these plants?"

Nick: And you're like, "Yes!"

Leah: "Sure!"

Nick: "Delighted to take these off your hands. I just didn't know that, like, oh, it wasn't coming with the pots."

Leah: [laughs] So it's like a completely nude plant.

Nick: So you out there, do you have any questions for us? Oh yes, you do! Let us know. You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com, or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Oh Nick, I am gonna vent.

Nick: Okay! What has happened?

Leah: Hold on to your seat.

Nick: Buckling up.

Leah: I'm shopping.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: I walk into a store.

Nick: All right.

Leah: Salesman comes up.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: Sales teen comes up.

Nick: [laughs] Okay, that feels material.

Leah: Looks at me and goes, "Are you shopping for your kids?"

Nick: [gasps]

Leah: Beat. "Your grandkids?"

Nick: [laughs] No!

Leah: Yes. Yes.

Nick: What?

Leah: Yes. I just walked into a store and I got, "Are you shopping for your grandkids?"

Nick: Wow! Oh! Oh, I—okay. That's all. [laughs]

Leah: I don't know the look I gave him.

Nick: I'm sorry. What merchandise was being sold in this store?

Leah: Clothes.

Nick: Just clothes. Did they have clothes for adults too?

Leah: It was mostly clothes for adults.

Nick: What are we doing?

Leah: I was like, "Why am I not shopping for me?"

Nick: Yeah. How is that not—yeah, surely there's the senior clothing section for you he could point you to.

Leah: Do women only shop for others?

Nick: Oh! Yeah, there's a little of that. There's a little of a lot in there.

Leah: There's a little of a lot of things. And I was like—I go—I look at him and I go, "Grandkids? Huh!"

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: And then I don't know what look I gave him. Sometimes I am not in control of my face, but it might have conveyed all of my thoughts.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: Because he came up to me in the store multiple times and apologized to me.

Nick: Okay. All right. I appreciate that.

Leah: One time he came over and he goes, "I wanted to ask you if you were shopping for your niece or nephew, but I just forgot the words and I said 'grandkids' by mistake."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I was like, what's happening right now? Why are you following me around the store? But I think—I don't know, maybe my face was scary or ...

Nick: Yes. You don't have children of your own, but perhaps one of your siblings has children, and that's who you're shopping for.

Leah: It just—he just—I had to be shopping for somebody else, and he was just trying to nail the age category.

Nick: Wow! Oh, bless.

Leah: "Are you shopping for your great-grandchildren?"

Nick: I mean, I—my heart stopped. I can only imagine what you did.

Leah: Grandchildren.

Nick: Grandchildren.

Leah: "Shopping for your grandchildren?"

Nick: I mean ...

Leah: I was not in a children's store. This man is assuming that I have teenage grandchildren.

Nick: [laughs] Also true! Oh, do that math.

Leah: I know, I was like ...

Nick: [laughs] Wow!

Leah: I—I mean, I have nothing—I think I have nothing else to say.

Nick: Yeah, what is there to say? Well, for me, I would also like to vent. And so let me take you back to Christmas. And so I'm actually in California for Christmas, and I get an email on Christmas Day. There's a journalist wanting to do a television interview about regifting. And he sent this message on Christmas Day, which is like, "Hey, looking for sources." And this is actually a special, like, service website where journalists try to get hooked up with, like, sources for media.

Nick: And so, like, this request went out to a lot of people, but I saw it and I was like, "Hey, I'm available. Happy to talk about this. I love talking about regifting. Let me know." And so he writes back, "Great! How about 8:30 tomorrow morning?" And that's 8:30 Eastern time, which means 5:30 Pacific time, but I say, "That's great. Happy to do it, but if you want to do a pre-tape, also can do that." And he's like, "Pre-tape is great," which means, like, it won't be live on TV, we'll, like, tape it and he'll air it, like, at some later point. Okay, fine.

Nick: So we set up the pre-tape for noon Eastern time on the Friday, and then an hour later he writes, quote, "So sorry, but I just realized our equipment will be in use at that time. My apologies. Would you be available on Saturday or Sunday morning?" And so we agree to do this on Saturday at 12:30 Eastern time. Now let me also explain that there was a snowstorm. I was supposed to be flying back from San Francisco to New York on that Friday, and my flight got canceled. I ended up going through LA to get a red-eye back to New York that night, partly because, oh, this thing is happening in New York and I cannot be in the air or I cannot be traveling the next day. And so part of me did do a red-eye flight, which is super unpleasant, and I did it via Los Angeles for this interview. Okay, fine.

Nick: So now it's Saturday morning. I have landed, I'm back in New York, I'm a little tired, but hey, okay. I sent a note, "Hey, just confirming we're still on for 12:30." He writes back, "Yep. Talk to you soon." And then 12:15, he writes, quote, "I am so sorry to keep doing this. We are now having a tech issue due to a power outage at one of our locations, so I have to cancel the interview. My sincere apologies." And I wrote back, "Oh, drats. I'm so sorry to hear. Let me know if you'd like to reschedule." No response. And so Leah, this is not great, right?

Leah: Well, I know what's coming, so I know it gets worse.

Nick: [laughs] So if it just ended there, okay, this is unfortunate. Okay, fine. I can live with that. But then a week later, you know, it may be a surprise to people, but I don't always see the good in everybody. And part of me felt like, I wonder if any of this were true. I wonder what is up. And so I googled this journalist, and I googled "regifting" and I was like, I wonder if this ever aired. Huh! Wouldn't you know, this interview did air on Friday the 26th at 8:34 am, the original time he wanted to schedule with me.

Leah: Insane!

Nick: With a different etiquette person, who I know very well, like very much, no issues there. But, like, you did the interview. And so what is that about? Why did you do this live interview that you wanted to do—great—and then continue to schedule with me through all of Friday and Saturday.

Leah: And confirm. And confirm.

Nick: And confirm. Right! What was your plan?

Leah: That is so wild.

Nick: That is so wild. So then when I see this, I was like, oh, this is not cool. So I wrote an email. I was like, "Hey, hope you're having a great day. I saw your interview posted with such-and-such person on December 26. Do let me know if I misunderstood the timing of this pitch request, or if there was something I could have done differently to have been included in this one." And so no response. But, like, what? I mean, how disrespectful of my time. I mean, so disrespectful!

Leah: So disrespectful of your time. And there was a night flight involved, which is a horror.

Nick: Which he didn't know about. He didn't need to know about it. I mean, that's not his problem. I committed to be somewhere and I was like, I'm gonna do what it takes to meet that commitment. That's important to me. And he was definitely more cavalier with my feelings and my time.

Leah: He was. He definitely was.

Nick: How rude! Also, I don't know what explanation there is. There is no benefit of the doubt here other than he's just a coward and he didn't know how to tell me, like, "Oh, I already just booked this with somebody else."

Leah: I mean, that's really sort of the only way to see it.

Nick: Because, like, that would have been fine. I would have been annoyed, which is like, oh, I thought we had this, like, but okay, totally get it. You wanted to do this live, and you wanted to do it with somebody else. All right, I get that. But, like, to pretend to schedule with me? I don't understand!

Leah: I mean, we could say that he liked you so much that he was like, "I'm gonna have a second version with Nick to hear Nick's opinion, because I don't trust this other person's opinion on regifting." And then there was a tech issue.

Nick: Okay. I mean, that would be plausible hypothetically.

Leah: But then he would've had to follow up with those two emails that you wrote back.

Nick: Yes. If that were really true, he would've written back and be like, "Hey, sorry for the misunderstanding. We did book this interview. I was planning on actually having a slightly different interview with you."

Leah: Yes.

Nick: "So sorry for any confusion."

Leah: "And so sorry for taking up your time."

Nick: So yeah, I just—this—this really got me, because it combines all of the things I hate: commercial flying, red eyes, wasting my time, having my expertise disrespected. What else don't I like?

Leah: Dishonesty.

Nick: Dishonesty. This is dishonest.

Leah: It's dishonest.

Nick: Lack of professionalism.

Leah: Lack of respect.

Nick: Lack of respect. Yeah. So, mm!

Leah: I do want our listeners to know that when Nick first told me, I screamed.

Nick: She did. [laughs]

Leah: And I was like, "Give me his home phone number and I'm going over."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "And I'm banging on the door."

Nick: Yeah. No, this? This is rude. There's just no way to slice it. So I—argh! So that is my vent. Thank you for listening.

Leah: I'm sorry that happened.

Nick: I do feel slightly better. I don't feel like I've achieved the justice I'm looking for, but I do feel slightly better.

Leah: Well, I think the way you achieve justice is when everybody emails you and asks who it is you tell them.

Nick: Oh. Uh, no. I'm not—I'm petty, but I'm actually not that petty. But this person is on my banned journalist list, which is a list that I do maintain of people who I will not work with. If you want to ask me for my opinion or a quote, I am unavailable to you if you've done a bad thing. And this person has done a bad thing. I said good day! [laughs]

Leah: I like the idea that Nick has the banned journalist list written in red crayon in the back of his closet, and it's just like a list of names that he's written down the wall.

Nick: I mean, it's not not that. Yeah.

Leah: That's what I hope it is.

Nick: Yeah. No, it really is that. Yeah. And I delight in adding your name and explaining why and the date in which it occurred. And I add the receipts in case you ever want to challenge it and be like, "Oh, no. You did a bad thing. And here's the proof!" Yeah. No, I—I'm like Aaron Jackson. I'll hold a grudge happily.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: Well, I learned that at the baby jumping festival, they're jumping over the whole mattress.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Because in my visual, when you first brought it up as a teaser, do we want to know, the way it was presented, I sort of thought they were jumping on the mattress with the babies on it. And I was like, this feels like it could go very wrong.

Nick: Yeah. Not a trampoline. And I learned that you have a plant named Robert Plant, and it's currently alive and well.

Leah: He's doing very well.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, you have a choice. You can do one of the following: You can follow us in the app you're listening to right now, so whatever podcast player that is, follow us, hit the bell, do something. Or you can sign up for our newsletter, or you can join our private Facebook group, or you can follow any of the social media platforms where we are. So you can join us on Instagram, Facebook, Threads or TikTok. Your choice.

Leah: I think this is the first your choice homework assignment that Nick has given.

Nick: I'm trying to spice it up. So please do one of those things, and we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: Well, I would love to thank Tamron Hall and everybody at the Tamron Hall Show for having us back for our fifth time.

Nick: Yes! And actually, I was gonna say thank you, too, because after sort of a bad journalist television experience, I love working with a professional team that's super nice and delightful. And it's just great to be there, and it's nice to be so welcome. And had a great time. So thank you, Tamron, and your entire crew. Super fun. Really enjoyed being there.

Leah: Thank you! Thank you!

Nick: Thank you!