Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah answer listener questions about feeling obligated to babysit for a neighbor, serving sliced lemons at a buffet, fixing a friends' social media typos, and much more. Please follow us! (We'd send you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)
Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah answer listener questions about feeling obligated to babysit for a neighbor, serving sliced lemons at a buffet, fixing friends' social media typos, and much more. Please follow us! (We'd send you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)
Have a question for us? Call or text (267) CALL-RBW or visit ask.wyrbw.com
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Producer & Editor: Nick Leighton
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Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.
Leah: And I'm Leah Bonnema.
Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...
Nick: That we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question? Oh, when this hit my email, I was just like ...
Nick: Okay. Quote, "I have a neighbor who I frequently babysit for, and I enjoy spending time with their adorable daughter. However, last week I planned for a much needed me day. That same neighbor asked me the day before my scheduled me day to watch their daughter. When I let them know through text that I was unavailable, the husband then replied that I quote, 'Must not really care about our friendship or his daughter.' In the end, I agreed to babysit for fear of angering this neighbor. What should I have done, and what should I do next time?"
Leah: I even have trouble answering this with, like, etiquette words.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, I just wrote down, "Whoa." [laughs]
Leah: I actually read this aloud.
Leah: To Lacey, because I needed somebody in the room to hear how upset I was.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, oh!
Leah: Manipulative. I mean, that's not within—I know we try to answer everything within the bounds of etiquette.
Nick: Well, I mean, being manipulative is considered impolite, yeah. *[laughs]]
Leah: It's rude! That is so manipulative.
Nick: Yeah, extremely. I mean, I actually don't know what could be more manipulative.
Leah: It's unbelievable to me. I literally wanted to get in the car, go pick up Nick, get an address and show up at this person's door. What?
Nick: Yeah, this definitely feels like a good housecall. Yeah.
Leah: And I don't mean our letter writer. I mean, the next door neighbor.
Nick: Oh, no, no. Definitely not our letter writer. But our letter writer lives next door, so we could see both on the same visit.
Nick: So I wrote a couple phrases down. One is, "No good deed goes unpunished." I also wrote down, "I'm sorry. I'm doing you a favor."
Leah: I even have trouble getting to responding. I like, "I'm sorry. I'm doing you a favor."
Nick: Oh, no. That's not a good response. That's not a polite response.
Leah: No, but I don't even think we politely respond to this. This is if you feel like you have to do something because you're afraid of how somebody's going to respond to you, it's a huge red flag.
Nick: That's the part of the letter I dislike the most, yes. Because I was so afraid of consequences that I just agreed to allow my boundary to be totally blown through.
Leah: And I think we all know this feeling, and it's very upsetting. I even have trouble with the idea of continuing this relationship in any way, but they love the daughter.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, whether or not you want to continue this relationship, I mean, for me, the well is poisoned here. So I don't know what we do with this. I mean, what's unfortunate is that we really like this adorable daughter, and so I think we would enjoy still babysitting and spending time with this person. Unfortunately, at least one parent here is totally toxic.
Leah: Very toxic. This is a toxic person. I feel like that is something that we could very fairly say. "I really enjoy spending time with your daughter. I found that your last message to me was egregious, and that I would just try to take time for myself and that you would somehow—" I mean, what is the wording there that we're gonna try to walk a line of—I mean ...
Nick: So benefit of the doubt. I can see a world in which this parent was stressed out, lashed out, said something they didn't mean or intend. Because I would like to think that there was some important thing that they really needed a babysitter for and it was last minute and, like, they just lashed out. And I would like to think that there was an apology that came unprompted from this person afterwards. I would like to live in that world.
Leah: I'm gonna guess 99.9 percent that's a no because of the line "Fear of angering this neighbor." My guess is that this neighbor has some kind of a personality.
Leah: In which we wouldn't think that. And also, I've lashed out at people when I was stressed, and I never lash out with, "Well, I guess you don't care about me or my kid."
Nick: Yeah, I mean, that's the ultimate. Sure.
Leah: And then I realized I did it and I apologized. I think we have all lashed out by mistake. We were overtired. And I'm hopeful that I've apologized within that same moment.
Nick: Right. Like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. That's actually not what I meant. I'm sorry." Yeah.
Leah: "That was inappropriate. Please forgive me."
Nick: Yeah. No, the fact that we've received a letter from somebody on this topic indicates that no apology was forthcoming.
Leah: Time has passed.
Nick: So I think that in the moment, what could I have done? I mean, I'm still in shock from reading your letter, so I can only imagine what it felt like in the moment. So I think you did the best you could, given how—I mean, what do you do with this? You know, who has composure in this moment? So just agreeing to do it? Okay. I mean, it's done. What to do in the future? I think it's up to you to decide, do I want to continue this or not? Because there is a thing where you volunteer for somebody or you do somebody favors as, like, a frequent, regular thing, and then people just assume that you should do it, and that now this thing is your obligation. And so that's definitely what's happening here: that you are now somehow obligated to always be on call. So if you wanted to continue babysitting, I think you'd want to have a polite yet direct conversation about, like, "That text message? Not appropriate. Here are the boundaries of what type of babysitting I'm willing to do and when. And always happy to do it if I'm available, I cannot promise I'm always available. And if that's not gonna work for you? Totally understand."
Leah: That seems like a polite and direct conversation that I think is completely fair. I also think it would be completely fair to say something along the lines like, "I can't be spoken to that way. You can't speak to me that way."
Nick: Yes. Yes. I think you could definitely start the conversation with that boundary setting at the top. Like, "I received your text."
Leah: "I'm still thinking about it."
Nick: "And I feel like it was hurtful and inappropriate because obviously this is not the case. And I think you will know that."
Leah: I think that's a great way to phrase it. And then I think our letter writer will feel better if they say that. "Like, obviously, you know, this isn't the case. This felt hurtful and inappropriate."
Nick: "And I really enjoy babysitting your daughter. I'm always happy to do it when I can, but there will be times when I can't. And it's not personal. It's just I also have other obligations in my life."
Leah: And then I think we can see what this neighbor says, and then make our choice off their response. I think there needs to be some recognition from them that they were out of bounds.
Nick: Yes. And I think if you don't get it, then I think it's clear how to proceed.
Nick: So our next question is quote, "I'm having a buffet lunch and plan to put a bowl of sliced lemons next to the water pitcher. Are these served with a spoon or a fork?"
Leah: Can we go tongs? Is there an option C?
Nick: [gasps] Oh, Leah! Oh, the student becomes the master!
Nick: Oh, I mean this—oh could we just take a moment to bask in this moment? Yes! Oh my goodness. Yes! Tongs! Tongs! Yes, the correct answer is tongs. Option C, the hidden answer. Yes. So yes, I would say tongs, for sure.
Leah: I mean, you can attribute that to my mother. She has great tongs. She's a tong lady. So I'm familiar with this question because of my mom.
Nick: So—well, how wonderful. Doesn't matter how you arrived at it. Correct. Yes, I would say tongs, because what we're trying to avoid is touching the lemon and squirting the lemon. Like, these are the things we're trying to avoid. So if you do not have tongs, I guess I would go spoon because with a fork, you're gonna squirt as the fork goes in. And then now we have to get the lemon off the fork somehow. So we either have to, like, scrape the lemon against the rim of the glass—not very elegant. Or we have to use our fingers and, like, get the lemon off the fork. And now we're touching the lemon. So what have we done?
Leah: Really? I was thinking if we didn't have tongs, we could actually go—but then this is gonna be the same issue. We could go toothpicks, and then you could just put it on the side of the ...
Leah: Have we sliced a little—whenever I put out lemons, I slice a little line in it so it can just go on the side of the glass.
Nick: Oh, you pre-score it so that it is available to be on a side of a glass. Interesting.
Leah: So they have been pre-scored. I think you could go toothpick.
Nick: Okay, interesting. Or cocktail pick.
Nick: In the pick world, yeah.
Leah: In the pick world. Maybe it has a little flag on it, or perhaps an anchor or a sword.
Nick: Oh, thematic!
Nick: So here's a question: you have the lemon wedges scored down the middle.
Nick: Through the pulpy part so that you could put it on the side of a glass. But if you have a bowl of lemons, the idea is that you would take the lemon, and the idea is to get the lemon juice into your water. And so there could be some squeezing that's required here.
Leah: I think, you know, though, the wedge that's like a triangle? That's when I think you're gonna squeeze, and when it's like the crescent moon? That's when I think it's gonna go on the side of the glass.
Nick: Okay, interesting. But then if it's the side of the glass, is it getting any lemon essence into my beverage?
Leah: Yeah, some of it just—it's the essence. It's more of an essence. Whereas a ...
Nick: I see. It's more of a LaCroix.
Leah: As opposed to like a Bubly.
Nick: Okay, got it. But regardless, I think we all feel like tongs.
Nick: Tongs is the answer. And the tongs you use, I think there are probably some Victorian lemon tongs that are some specific thing but, like, tongs that you would use for sugar cubes?
Nick: Like, that would also work for this.
Leah: Yes, little baby tongs.
Nick: And those are available at your finer retailers nearby wherever you live.
Leah: Little baby tongs.
Nick: Baby tongs, yes.
Leah: LBTs. You got a little baby tong?
Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "I have noticed that an adult member of my family isn't washing her hands when she goes to the restroom. Should I say something to her about it?"
Leah: I would need to know how close this relative is.
Nick: Yeah, I have some follow-up questions. The first question is: is this your house or is this not your house? Second question is: who is this person?
Leah: I don't know how it would be your house, because if it's your house, that's—I mean, it's possible there's a house where there's two toilets and one bathroom and we're all sharing the same sink. But in most houses, people go to the bathroom by themselves, I'm guessing. So I don't know how you don't know that she's not washing our hands, unless what you're doing is going into a public restroom together.
Nick: Okay. So your question is: how do we know this person is not washing their hands?
Leah: Well, I immediately assumed that we were in a public restroom together because how else would we know? But I guess it's possible that we would know ...
Nick: I see. So it may not actually be your house. Because what I was thinking is that if this is my house and I have a relative that just doesn't wash her hands, it's just like not her thing, I could consider putting a sign in my guest bathroom like, "Wash your hands, everybody," for everybody, but really intended for her to see and encourage her to wash your hands. Like, that was an idea I had. It may not be a good idea, but it's an idea.
Leah: You could also say, if we're on that line of thinking before we all eat, "Everybody wash their hands before dinner." Just like a fun thing you throw out up top.
Nick: Mm-hmm. Okay, I like that.
Leah: I really need to know how far of a relative it is. Like, is it once removed? Is it your parent? Is it your grandparent? Is it your great aunt?
Nick: Reading between the lines with no other information than the sentences I just read, "Adult member of my family" feels like this is a spouse or an adult child living in my house.
Leah: Oh, really?
Nick: That's what I'm getting from this. Or it's a mother-in-law.
Leah: Because I feel like if it was my spouse, I'd be like, "Babe, wash your hands."
Nick: Right. Okay, so it's not that. And if it was mother-in-law, the letter would totally just say "My mother in law."
Nick: So it's not that. I'm gonna go final answer: adult child living in my house.
Leah: I feel like if it was my child, I would be like, "What are you doing? Wash your hands."
Nick: Then who is it then?
Leah: I think it's like a great aunt, because if it was an immediate family member, I feel like you would just say it in that way where you're like, "Come on, what are you doing?"
Leah: But it's one removed, so you don't feel like you can cross that boundary. That's how I feel it is.
Nick: Okay. So do we have a polite yet direct approach in private?
Leah: And we're not doing the signs.
Nick: Yes, we don't have a little sign in my bathroom.
Leah: I think it really depends on the relationship. Like, I read this as you're in a public restroom together, and they are leaving the bathroom and you're at the sink washing your hands. And it's can you throw a casual, "Don't you want to wash your hands? Are you gonna wash your hands?"
Nick: Okay. Yeah. I mean, this seems habitual.
Leah: Right. But I mean, that's how we would introduce it next time we were in the washroom.
Leah: "Oh, hey. Aren't you gonna wash your hands?" Can you throw that out casually?
Nick: Okay, so if it's a public restroom and we're in the moment, could you say something that felt non-judgmental? Yeah, okay. Probably.
Leah: You know, toss it out. Always say it with a smile so it sounds like it's a, Oh, aren't we all washing our hands together?"
Nick: I mean, I guess one question, and maybe we don't even want to go there: is it necessary? Is it necessary for this relative to wash their hands? Does it affect our life?
Leah: That's the thing I was thinking. Is there a way that we could just not touch anything they touched?
Nick: Right. Yeah. So I mean, if this person is not washing their hands and then immediately going to chop vegetables for the raw salad, then there's a health and safety issue here. Health and safety always trumps etiquette. Say something politely but, like, say something. Okay, fine. If we're at Disneyland ...
Leah: Oh, yeah.
Nick: And you didn't wash your hands and now we're gonna go on the log ride, yeah, I mean, I guess maybe just keep your distance and don't share any surfaces.
Leah: I think in the first situation, I don't think we have to say "I noticed that you didn't wash your hands in the bathroom." You could be like, "Hey, do you mind cutting the salad, and can you wash your hands first? Everybody wash their hands first." Not like a "I notice you always use the bathroom and don't wash your hands.
Nick: Right. No, there would have to be the right way to phrase it and introduce the topic. Absolutely, yes. I think our struggling with this is a good signal that, like, this is a little tricky.
Leah: It's a little tricky.
Nick: It's a little tricky, yeah.
Leah: And I think with the Disneyland option, you know, I always have the back up where we've left the washroom. I then, before I'm about to go on, I love to hand sanitize. I'll be like, "Anybody wants—I'm hand sanitizing. Anybody wants some hand sanitizer?"
Leah: And then I'll just put it out to the person. It's already there. It's ready.
Nick: It's above your palms already.
Leah: It's above your palm. It's coming out.
Nick: Just let me squeeze.
Leah: Just let me squeeze a little.
Nick: Yeah, that might be your best option here. Like, if you see this person and it's in public, and hand sanitizer being offered feels kind of organic.
Leah: Yeah, it's just because I wouldn't want to not offer it. I would feel rude.
Nick: It's like a stick of gum.
Nick: "I'm having some gum. Would you like some gum?"
Nick: Okay. And then if it's in your home, then yeah, I guess something polite and direct.
Leah: Or I would try with the sign putting up. That was nice.
Nick: I did have one option I wrote down. Maybe it's terrible. What do you think about, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I must have run out of hand towels. Let me get some."
Leah: I just don't know how we know they're not washing our hands if they're the only person in the bathroom.
Nick: I mean, if you are in a normal home and you hear the toilet flush and they walk right out.
Leah: Oh, I see what you're saying.
Nick: I mean, I think you're like, there was not a lot of opportunity for hand-washing, and also didn't hear the sink go.
Leah: I mean, if you think you could throw that out in a way.
Nick: That would be really hard to land. Yeah.
Leah: The thing is, if it was my kid or my spouse, I would say, "Did you not wash your hands?" That's why I think it's an extended ...
Nick: Yeah. So okay. Have we actually offered anything of value to this letter writer?
Leah: I hope we have. I feel like we've put an array of options out, depending on where the location is, how close of a relative are they?
Leah: And we've admitted this is some murky, murky water.
Nick: This is murky waters. Very inky.
Leah: I also—you know, I know people that maybe have—and I really don't—I'll be like, "I'm not gonna touch what they touched."
Nick: Yes, I definitely have people in my life where I'm sort of like, I'm aware to keep my distance from any surfaces. Yeah.
Leah: I'm gonna double hand sanitize.
Nick: Yeah, that's just what you got to do.
Nick: And you just sort of take care of yourself and try not to worry about them, I guess.
Nick: So our next question is quote, "I graduated high school back in June, and I started my first semester of college last fall. I wrote, thank-you notes for the gifts that I received close to my graduation, trying to keep their delivery prompt. However, one graduation gift came much later after I had already left for school, and it was sent to my home address. This resulted in my not receiving the card or the enclosed check until my fall break in October. I wrote a thank-you note shortly after returning to school, but unfortunately I never got around to mailing it, and I thought it would be best not to cash the check until I'd sent a thank-you note. So the check remains uncashed. I'm now wondering how to proceed. I'm gonna write a more updated thank-you note and send it within the next week. But have I missed my opportunity to cash the check? I don't want the gift giver out of the blue to see a debit on their account when they weren't planning on one, but I also don't want to seem ungrateful. What should I do?"
Leah: I feel like any time a thank-you note comes up, we always defer to you because you have ...
Nick: [laughs] Okay.
Leah: I mean, I know what I would do.
Nick: Oh. Well, which is what?
Leah: I would write the thank-you note.
Leah: I would say, "I apologize for the tardiness. You know, I didn't receive this until after I'd left for school."
Leah: "Thank you so much. So looking forward to depositing this." I would cash it still.
Nick: Okay. Interesting.
Leah: I wouldn't say, "So looking forward to it." I would just say, "Thank you so much. Apologies for my tardiness. I didn't receive this until—this didn't come in until already I'd left. Thank you so much." And then I would cash it after I'd send it.
Nick: I see. So my first thing is, do we not have any mail forwarding to school? Just a thought. Now I don't want to shame anybody here, and I suspect that our letter writer does feel bad about this situation.
Leah: I think so.
Nick: And so I like that. So that's good. Also, I suspect that our letter writer may be relatively new to our show because I would suspect for better or for worse, that had this been a regular listener at the time this letter episode first happened, my voice would have been in their head. And I think my voice would've been very loud, because I think my voice might be very loud in a lot of our listeners' heads right now when it comes to thank-you notes.
Nick: And so I would be very surprised if my voice could be in this person's head back in October, and for them to be like, "Nah, I'm gonna ignore Nick's voice in my head. No problem. I can tune him out." I don't think you can do that.
Leah: I know I can't tune you out.
Nick: [laughs] I can't do it.
Nick: So I think it's great that you want to do the right thing here. And so the right thing here is absolutely yes, you were correct, Leah, write the thank-you note. Apologize profusely for the delay. I would give a little detail about what happened. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation. And there's a difference. And then I would even maybe in that letter ask, "Would it still be okay for me to deposit this check?" And, like, leave it on them. And so I think they would be like, "Yeah, of course. Still deposit it. Check's still good. Have at it." Or they may say, like, "Oh, let me reissue a new one. We put a stop payment on that." Or if they say nothing, then that's also your answer, and you shouldn't deposit it.
Nick: So I think that's kind of how I'd proceed. But I think I would probably ask for permission before I deposited the check, just so they do have an opportunity to know that it's happening.
Leah: I think that sounds good.
Nick: Yeah. And in the future, this is a great reason why we should, you know, get that money in our bank account as quickly as possible.
Nick: Great. So I do hope that by the time this episode airs, this letter is already in the mail. I really do hope that that's the case.
Leah: I think it's in the mail. Our letter writer clearly feels bad about it. It's mostly—I mean, they've already sent many thank-you letters out. One slipped through. It happens.
Nick: Yes, they know how. They know how to do it. They have the skills, yes.
Leah: It happens.
Nick: It absolutely happens, yes. And with etiquette, it's never the crime, it's the cover up. So it's just how do we recover from the misstep? And so misstep happens. Fine. Yes, totally understand. But yes, I think apologizing profusely, still being very grateful and gracious about the gift that was given, and asking how to minimally inconvenience the gift giver any further. I think those are the main categories, and let's check off those boxes and then never let it happen again.
Nick: So our next question ...
Leah: I love it! Slipping in the "Never let it happen again," right at the end there real quick.
Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "A dear friend quit her job to start a new business and regularly posts on social media promoting her life-coaching services. She often has several spelling and grammatical errors in her posts and advertisements. And as the daughter of an English teacher, not only does this make me cringe, but I also feel it reflects badly on her and may possibly dissuade future clients from pursuing her services. She seems to be struggling to find new clients, so do I point out the errors? If so, how do I do it without hurting her feelings?"
Nick: This is tough.
Leah: This is tough. I feel like I think the first thing we do is we drop the first part of the "not only does this make me cringe" when we approach our friend.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good place to start.
Leah: Coming from the "I'd like to help my friend," I'm assuming that your friend has brought up to you that she's struggling getting new clients.
Nick: Right. We assume that that's a conversation you all have had, and this is not just something you know or are assuming.
Leah: So I think if your friend has brought that up to you more than once, you can say, "Hey, do you want to do some brainstorming ideas together?" And then maybe offer to help write fun advertisements together.
Nick: Hmm. Okay, I like that. Or introduce her to some spell check or grammar check system that she could use for all of her communications.
Leah: Yeah, I think you could say "I love one of those." I don't want to pick one because there's—"but I love this program. I find it helps me write snappy things. I recommend it to anybody."
Nick: Because this issue is actually pretty common, where we have a friend who has some habit that we think is holding them back in dating or professional life, and we feel like if they could only address this thing, then all these other problems could be solved for them. And so this could be like a friend who has, like, bad table manners and you're like, "Do you do this on dates? Oh! No wonder you don't get a second date." Or like, "Oh, you don't know how to spell? Like, no wonder no client wants to hire you." So I think that is actually relatively common, where we see these things in some of the friends we have and we're like, "Oh, how do we bring this up? Because I really think if you could solve this your life would be better."
Leah: I think that if they've never brought it up to us as it's something that's bothering them, maybe. But if they say—they're bringing up, "Oh, I don't know why I'm not getting new clients or I'm struggling," I think that's when we maybe say something like, "May I make a suggestion?"
Nick: Right. All right. I mean, I think that's definitely one path. I guess one question is,: what would you want to have happen if the situation was reversed? So would you want your friend to let you know? And if so, how? I mean, I think that could also be a question.
Leah: I was thinking about it that way, and I was thinking I've had people give me—have ideas to make something on social media pop more.
Leah: And I've had a friend write to me and just write it without any preamble, without me saying anything. They were like, "You're doing this wrong, blah blah blah."
Nick: Uh-huh. Love that!
Leah: And then I had another friend write, "You know what? I've noticed that something really helps me do this. Would you be interested in hearing about it?" And then yes. And then they tell me. I really think it's in the setup.
Leah: It's a person who, if they've never brought it up to you, as if they're, like, living their life and they're happy with the way everything's going, I don't know if we bring it up.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess, yeah, do you have to bring it up? That's a good question.
Leah: But if they're saying "I'm really struggling getting new clients," then maybe that's when we would introduce, "Oh, this app works great," or "Do you want to brainstorm together?" Or ...
Nick: Yeah, I think the asking for permission before you offer that advice, that's probably the way to go then.
Leah: I wouldn't bring it up out of the blue.
Nick: Yeah. No, it shouldn't come out of left field. I mean, at the end of the day, it just needs to be done with kindness.
Nick: And so is this gonna be mindful of their feelings?
Leah: And I think it's the idea of, like, I know when somebody's trying to help me and they're saying, "You know, let's try this. I had some ideas. You know, would you want to run over them together?" Yeah.
Nick: So, okay. So I guess how to proceed depends on what your relationship is with this person and what the previous conversations have been.
Nick: Okay. All right. So I think we came to something with this.
Leah: I think so, too.
Nick: So the last thing is actually a suggestion from you all in the wilderness about a previous question. So you may remember that someone asked, "What can I bring to a dinner party?" And the people hosting the dinner party sent the entire shopping list.
Leah: Oh, I remember that.
Nick: And so one of you had a great idea, which is quote, "I think what I would have done would be something like, 'Hey, it looks like you're planning on making so-and-so. So I'll pick up a nice red wine or dessert to go along with it." And then just totally ignore the fact that they sent me the entire list of groceries."
Nick: I like that. I mean, if you could land that, that's wonderful!
Leah: I mean, I would love to be there for that text conversation because it was a family member, I believe.
Nick: If you could land that. "Oh, I'll bring devil's food cake. See you at six."
Leah: And then you're going to be eating devil's food cake. [laughs]
Nick: [laughs] I'm not mad at that.
Leah: Not mad. You will have set your boundary.
Nick: So that's great. So if you have any ideas about previous questions, let us know. And if you have anything else you want to share with us, please send it in. You can send it to our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com, or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.