Driving Coworkers Home, Asking About Allergens, Calling Your Husband By Name, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is, quote, "I am a teacher at a suburban high school outside of a large city. The majority of my coworkers live in towns around the school, and only myself and one other teacher live in the city and commute about 20 to 30 minutes to work every day. On Sunday night, I received a text from my coworker—let's call her Lisa—asking if I was planning to stay for after-school meetings on Monday. I said yes, and she replied asking if I could give her a ride back to the city afterwards. I immediately answered, of course. As a fellow city dweller, I know how hard it is to deal with our commute when one's car is out of commission. She replied, thanking me, and then let me know that her teenage son, who attends a suburban high school different from ours, has half days for final exams, and she wanted to let him have the car for the day. I was taken aback. I had assumed the reason she asked for the ride was an inconvenience and not as a favor to her son. While we live in the same city, we live in two totally different neighborhoods, and my home is at least 20 minutes away from hers. I don't mind this extra time on my commute to help a colleague, but I am annoyed that I am now inconvenienced as a favor to her teenage son. Was it rude for Lisa to ask me for a ride home? Am I rude for being annoyed by the reason for the favor? And how should I handle future requests from her? This is the first time she's asked, and we've worked together for some time, so I don't want to be insensitive to a colleague in need, but I also don't want to be regularly inconvenienced in this way."

Leah: I think this is a very interesting question.

Nick: For sure. Yeah, I can see why our letter-writer is annoyed. It feels like a little bit of a bait and switch.

Leah: But then it brings to light, if we are asked for a favor, is the reason for the favor, why the person needs it, do we need to know that?

Nick: Right. Is the reason important for our evaluation of the favor? Should the reason matter?

Leah: Because since we know that this coworker doesn't ask this often, they've been working together for a long time, this is the first time they've asked.

Nick: Right.

Leah: This is important to her.

Nick: Right. We're still doing something nice for our colleague.

Leah: Yes. So I understand why our letter-writer feels it was a bait and switch. At the same time, I feel like this was important enough to our colleague to ask for a favor when they do not normally ask for favors.

Nick: Right. And I guess the question is, had the colleague said, "Hey, would it be possible to get a ride home from you on Monday because my son needs the car," would you have said no? I don't think you would have. I think you would have agreed and been okay with it. I think it's the idea that oh, this new information was added after you already said yes, after the favor was already secured. That, I think, is what is making you annoyed.

Leah: I think so, too.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Because I would feel the same way if a person said, "Hey, can you—would you mind dropping me off? My car is in the shop." And "Hey, would you mind dropping me off? My kid needs the car for the day." I would feel the same way.

Nick: Right. I think it's the idea that you feel like your friend was actually withholding that information and secured this favor without giving you all the detail. And so I think you feel a little misled.

Leah: But I actually don't think they were doing that because I think in their mind ...

Nick: What difference does it make?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And it's not like you have to give the kid the ride. Like, "Oh, are you working late on Monday? Great. Would it be possible to get a ride back to the city?" And you're like, "Yes." And then this person was like, "Oh, it's not for me, it's for my son." Like, it's not even that.

Leah: No, you're still doing the favor for your colleague.

Nick: Right. Now the 40 minutes out of your way is material. So, like, I get that that is not convenient.

Leah: But I mean, you could even have the conversation, "Hey, I assumed your car was out of commission. Since it's still there, do you mind—I'll drive you into the city, but then can your kid come pick you up at my house?"

Nick: Right. Yeah, that would be fair.

Leah: But I do think that because they don't ask for favors often, that this is really important to them and that we should still feel, as Nick said, like we're doing our colleague a favor and that they weren't trying to bait and switch us. For them, it's like the same thing. Their kid needs the car.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And they need a ride.

Nick: But I think something you brought up at the top, which was, does the reason for the favor matter? Yes. I think if I'm being asked for a favor, I would like to have context, right? I would like to kind of know, like, oh, what is this favor about? How badly do you really need it? How much is it worth my inconvenience? Like, I feel like I want all that information.

Leah: Like, I think—completely different example, if you came to me and you were like, "I really need $600."

Nick: Okay. Yeah. I would like to know why.

Leah: Yeah. And you were like, "I—you know, it's a medical thing. It's a thing."

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then if you came to me and you were like, "I really need $600," and I assumed it was a medical thing or, like, a rent thing, and then I found out it was because you needed these crazy shoes.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'd be like, oh, that would be a whole other thing.

Nick: Right. Okay. That's—I think that's actually a very good example. Yes.

Leah: But I think in this circumstance, she's just trying to take care of her kid.

Nick: And who knows? There may be a day when you need a ride back to the city, and won't it be nice to have a colleague you could lean on and a favor you can call in?

Leah: And I don't actually think she's gonna ask again.

Nick: No, this was a kid, finals, half day. Like, finals probably happen once or twice a year. He'll have to graduate at some point. So yeah, I don't think this is gonna come up that often.

Leah: And I think it's very nice of you to drive your colleague home.

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "You often mention the heinous crime of getting to the front of a line and not being ready to order. And I realized that this is not only something I've done before, but it is also something that may be unavoidable in my life. The problem is I have a wide selection of severe allergies. When I arrive at the front of the line, that is my opportunity to ask about allergens and cross-contaminants that may be present in foods. This takes a significant amount of time and surely inconveniences those standing in line behind me. These places typically have allergy menus or things of the sort online. However, they are often incomplete, incorrect, or simply lack information about some of the allergies that I have. I've also tried calling the businesses beforehand to see if I can get information that way, but that rarely works as people have very limited knowledge about the ingredients to the things I'm ordering. Often when talking at the counter, the workers have to talk to managers or someone else in authority in order to get the information that I need, which often takes significant amounts of time. Is this an occasion where health and safety trumps etiquette, or is there a way I can go about this safely without greatly inconveniencing those who would also like to order? I don't want to take time away from other people, but I also would rather not go into anaphylaxis. If you can come up with some magical solution to this conundrum, I would greatly appreciate it."

Leah: I underlined, "But I would also rather not go into anaphylaxis."

Nick: Yeah. Valid.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Totally agree. No complaints.

Leah: Totally agree.

Nick: So our letter-writer brings up some excellent points. Yes, health and safety always trumps etiquette. And on our show, I may from time to time make it sound very absolute about certain things, my way or the highway. And one of those things is I really do want people to be ready when they step up to a counter. And I say it with such gusto, with the knowledge that our audience knows that there is this exception. Health and safety is always the exception. So, like, no problem for me behind you in line. So that's my first top-level thought here.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, you gotta ask about food allergies. It's—you can't have your throat close over. I think that's pretty ...

Nick: Reasonable.

Leah: Very reasonable.

Nick: And I think something that we don't talk enough about, which is very important here, is that there is a very big difference between taking all the time you need and taking your sweet time. And so I am happy to always wait in line behind somebody who is taking the time they need. At TSA, you need to put your belt back on? Okay. Take the time you need to do that. If you're also checking your hair and putting on lipstick, holding me up, that's taking your sweet time. That's not allowed. But I think for people to take the time they need to do the thing they need to do, no problem. And so you need to take time to ask about allergens. No problem. Really, no problem. And you have gone so above and beyond—checking the website first, even calling—like you've done all the things. So the best you can do is like, if a manager has to get called in, step to the side, let them take the next order while the manager comes, you know, from the back. Like, I guess you could do that.

Leah: You really have gone above and beyond. I mean, you've tried to get the information in every way possible.

Nick: Yeah. And as long as the conversation is sort of efficient, which is like, "Hi, I have allergies such as X, Y and Z. Can I order this thing?" Like, as long as the conversation is sort of like, efficient and to the point, and we're not going out of our way to be like, "How was your day? Did you see the game last night?" Like, as long as there's not that conversation. That I would have a problem with. But if you're asking about allergens, yeah, it's totally fine.

Leah: Two things. I do love this differentiation between taking your sweet time.

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And taking the time you need.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Very important.

Nick: Very important.

Leah: Second thing, there are many places in this country, let alone all over the world, where asking people how their day was when you get there is a part of the back and forth. It's just that Nick lives in New York City.

Nick: [laughs] So I expect everybody to do it that way. Yes. If you're living in a part of the world in which you start every interaction with a long conversation about weather, how you are, how's your mom and them, all of this, okay, fine. Do whatever is culturally correct for where you are, and then ask about your allergens.

Leah: Yeah. A lot of places, if you got up to the counter and you're like, "Hey!" You know, you probably know the person, you know their mom. You're not gonna say, "Hello, how was your day?"

Nick: Yeah. Rudeness comes in many different forms in many different places. It's contextual. All etiquette is local. Okay, fine.

Leah: So I think we should throw that in there too.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. I stand corrected. But in New York City, don't do that, please. No one—no one cares how your day was.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "I'm writing to make sure that I'm not being the Chad here. I have a creative project that often requires guests that I don't know personally. I always try to follow their preferred communication method, and if someone says they can't do it, I respect that and I move on. But unfortunately, the internet means that there's a lot of ambiguity when I don't get a response at all. Are they ignoring me on purpose? Did the message get missed? I don't know, and I don't want to pester them beyond reason, but I also don't want to miss out on a guest if they never saw my message. How many messages can I send before I start being rude?"

Leah: I would say two.

Nick: Yeah, I think I agree with two. But how did you arrive at that? Show your work.

Leah: The first one, you're reaching out.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: Are you interested?

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: You don't hear back.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I mean, I know I have backed up emails. I have backed up messages.

Nick: Oh, sure.

Leah: It's moved through the inbox. I want to give out one more shout out to be like, "Hey, just—" what was the phrase that we decided we hated? Bumping it to the top of the inbox?

Nick: Oh, hate that.

Leah: "Hey, I just wanted to follow up." I don't know if you want to say "In case you missed it," or just want to follow up in blank. Nick's gonna come up with that blank right there.

Nick: Uh-oh. Okay. No pressure.

Leah: And then reach out and then that's it.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, for our podcast, we get a lot of solicitations from people, like, wanting to be a guest on our show. Like, "Hey, my client is a Beverly Hills dermatologist and wants to come in about, like, inner beauty etiquette." And so these are, like, not good for us because we don't have guests on our show.

Leah: Mm-hmm.

Nick: And obviously if you listen to our show, you would know that's probably not a great pitch. And so for those, those just get deleted. If you've really personalized it, you've listened to our show, what you're asking us actually might be something we might do, like, make sense for us, like, if it's in that world, it's clearly not an AI-created solicitation, then I am happy for you to follow up twice because you put effort in. It was like a nice personalized something. I might have missed it or it just wasn't a priority and you need to hear back from me. Okay, fine. Twice. Twice is great. The amount of time between those needs to be at least a week.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Like, let's not follow up in three days. Like, seven to ten days? I'm good there. If it's not super time sensitive, I'm good with 30 days. Email me next month. But two, two is good. And it is true, no response is a response. So one missed is plausible, two is not.

Leah: I love that we were both a hundred percent on the same page before we even said it out loud.

Nick: How wonderful! And there was, like, a question about, like, switching, I guess, methods, like, trying to follow their preferred communication method. So I think that's like following up via DM on Instagram if I've emailed you. And I think you can do one of those, like, "Hey, DMing you here in case it's a better way to reach you. Totally get if you're busy." Like, I guess I would allow one of those, but I don't want multiple follow-ups on multiple channels.

Leah: I kind of feel like if you're gonna DM me, then there shouldn't be the second email.

Nick: Right. The DM is the second thing.

Leah: The DM is the second email.

Nick: Yeah. That should be the rule. You get two opportunities to reach out. So you can do both the same channel. You can do multichannel, but I only want to be contacted twice. Three times is too much.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Okay. I think that's fair.

Leah: Because I get a lot of the same things too about, like, comedy stuff where people reach out and it is very—I'm really glad Nick brought this up. It's so clear what's been personalized to me.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then what's just not appropriate to me at all.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then when people follow up, you're like, "How are you following up? The first one wasn't even really to me."

Nick: Yeah. And we are actually starting to get AI-derived email pitches where it starts with some vague reference to the last episode in our feed. So it was like, "Hi, Nick and Leah. Really loved the last episode about black napkins. Your blend of humor and history really moved me. I wanted to suggest so-and-so to be a guest on your show." And it's sort of like, ooh, what a weird start! Also, we don't have guests, so thank you for being such a fan.

Leah: AI is just—there was a really funny post where somebody wrote on the internet, "I can't believe that people used to write 10-page papers without AI." And then somebody came in underneath and was like, "I used to write 10-page papers without even reading the book!" [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, AI, it's definitely not helpful sometimes. Let's put it that way.

Leah: I almost go A-I? A-why?

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is, quote, "What is the etiquette around mentioning a person, such as a spouse, child, friend or coworker, by name rather than the relational category in conversation with a third party? To give a specific example, I am very social and have a lot of friends and friend groups, while my husband does not. So sometimes even my close friends have not met my husband in person. It feels most appropriate to me when I mention my husband, for example, in the context of something he said or something we did together, to refer to him as my husband until he and the friend I'm talking to have actually met each other personally. My impression is that you would switch to the name after the person being talked about and the person being talked to have met in some form. Is that correct?"

Leah: I just wrote next to it—I mean, it feels like I'm just having really concise opinions about all of these questions, which is so not me.

Nick: I love the new Leah! I mean, our show's gonna be two minutes long now.

Leah: It's gonna be one episode and then we'll be back. But I just wrote, "I agree," and then I underlined it.

Nick: Oh, that's it. Okay. Yes. I mean, let's talk about the etiquette forest for the trees—the etiquette trees for the forest? Somehow there's etiquette trees and forests and we're gonna be in someplace. And so the idea here is we want to make it easy for the listener to keep track of who we're talking about. Like, that's the etiquette rule. And bad storytelling often involves introducing new characters who we don't know. Like, that is very common among bad storytellers. Just like a random introduction of a character by name, and we have no idea who they are or who they are to you, right?

Leah: Yeah. People get lost.

Nick: Right? It's just like, oh, who is Mary again? Wait, why does Mary have anything to do with this story? Right. It's like, what? And so it is true. For the listener, the name may not register if they have not met them. Like, they may not connect, like, "Oh, Chad is your husband." And so referring to just, "Oh, my husband," that is probably more considerate if they don't necessarily know that Chad is your husband.

Leah: I think it's definitely easier on the listener, and I think it's also—coming from the other direction, I find it a little odd when people bring up first names of people in my life that they've never met, and I've never spoken to them directly about that person.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Without saying their name.

Nick: Like, if somebody referred to your parents by their names?

Leah: Well, I've had people come up to me who have never met Dustin and I as a couple, I've never spoken to them about Dustin. They go, "How's Dustin?"

Nick: Oh yeah. I mean, that's a slightly different etiquette crime. That's like being overly familiar.

Leah: Well, I feel like that's the other side of this coin.

Nick: Although, would you want them to be like, "Oh, how's your fiancé?"

Leah: Well, ostensibly I have spoken about having a partner.

Nick: Okay. So, "Oh, how's your partner doing?" Yeah, that actually does feel slightly better than, like, "Oh, how is Dustin," if I've never met Dustin.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Yeah. That is weird.

Leah: It's weird.

Nick: Yeah, that is weird. So the reverse, I guess, is also a little weird. So yeah, we should not be referring to people by name if we've never met them. Is that the default? That feels a little too much.

Leah: It feels a little too much. Like, if you—if we're close friends and I've never met your child because we work together, but our homes are far apart and you're constantly talking to me about your daughter Lisa.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I can say, "How's Lisa?"

Nick: Yes, you could do that. That's true.

Leah: Because we see each other regularly. We have a relationship. You often tell me about things that are happening with your daughter.

Nick: That's true. That's a good point. Yeah. There is also a thing that happens when you use a name and the other person can't place it. It almost sometimes sounds like name dropping. Like, you should know who Lisa is. You should know who Chad is. And there can be that dynamic that's happening. And the listener's like, should I know who Lisa is?

Leah: Yeah, I do think that the major part of this is that it's easier on the listener. Like, I hear with my—my eyes.

Nick: You hear with your eyes. Okay.

Leah: I understand by seeing. So if I haven't seen Chad, if I have never met Chad, unless we talk regularly all the time and you're always talking to me about Chad ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... I'm not gonna place it. I'm gonna get lost. I'm gonna be digging in my brain feeling like I'm somehow inadequate. I don't know who this person is.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Just say your husband.

Nick: Yeah, it would be actually best to be like, "Oh, my husband Chad." Give me the name and the relationship together in the first mention.

Leah: Mm-hmm.

Nick: And then for the rest of the conversation, then, like, okay, I'll let you pick whichever one as long as you've introduced the character properly.

Leah: Yes, please introduce the character.

Nick: Please introduce your character properly. Miss Manners was actually asked something along these lines and she says to use the name. She would prefer you just use the name, but she says what's to be avoided is, quote, "terms that suggest you know him too little or too well, such as 'Mister' or 'lover.'" So you should not refer to your husband as "Mr. Something," and you should not refer to your husband as "my lover." So that's Miss Manners' advice.

Leah: I'm gonna say that if you're telling me a story and you want to introduce your partner to me in the story, like, in my head as you're telling it to me, and you want to say, "My lover, Dustin ..."

Nick: I mean ...

Leah: I'm fine with that.

Nick: [laughs] Well, that definitely would fill in the story for me.

Leah: Yeah. I'm getting so much.

Nick: Yeah. I get a lot of information. Yeah. So on some level, that actually is the perfect word choice. Yes. In fact, I hope you refer to him only as that moving forward.

Leah: I have referred to him as that because I don't even know what to call a 19-year fiancé anymore.

Nick: I feel like it's a long-term engagement.

Leah: It's a—he's my—my—my—my promised.

Nick: He's your life fiancé.

Leah: He's my life fiancé.

Nick: I think actually that's the best.

Leah: I think that's nice. "This is my LF."

Nick: He's my LF. Yes, my life fiancé. I actually think we just solved that for you. You're welcome.

Leah: I do think we just solved that, because we like to stay in a state of celebration.

Nick: Oh, is that what we say?

Leah: Mm-hmm!

Nick: Oh, that's nice! Oh, that's very lovely. Yeah. Why let the party end?

Leah: Why let the party end?

Nick: Why ruin it with a marriage?

Leah: Why ruin it with joint taxes?

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is, quote ...

Leah: Really quickly, I'm adding—look at this. I'm going back to my original self. I love this question, because it's like a topic that we haven't—we haven't covered it. And we have all these regular things that we do in our life when we talk to people, regular habits, the way we communicate that you're like, oh, was it—is it appropriate that I do it this way?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Why did we decide to do it this way? And I think this is a really nice conversation about one of those things.

Nick: Very nice. So our next question is, quote, "I am a co-leader of a Brownie troop. It's very informal, and all of the girls call all of the leaders and moms by their first names except for one. This young mother insists that her child call me by my title, 'Mrs.' I said 'No, I prefer to have her call me by my first name. That's what I like to be called.' The mother said that she's teaching her daughter to be respectful, and so therefore she must call me by my title. I said, 'I think it's respectful to call people what they wish to be called, and I do not like to be called by my title.' What say you?"

Leah: What say you, Nick?

Nick: Well, I say this is actually one of the oldest etiquette rules on the books, which is basically people should be addressed the way they want to be addressed. That's the rule. So that's nicknames, that's titles, that's pronouns. It's people should be addressed the way they want to be addressed. So if you want to be addressed as the Countess Leah Bonnema, then so it shall be. That's what I will call you. I prefer to be addressed as Nick. I don't like going by Nicholas. And so call me Nick. And so if I tell you this and then you go out of your way to not do that, then we're in new territory.

Leah: Yes. I immediately felt, well, you've said this is what I like to be called.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then the—she doubled down.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And the only thing that threw a spanner in the works for me ...

Nick: I know what you're gonna say.

Leah: What am I gonna say?

Nick: We don't want to parent other people.

Leah: Yeah. And I think that, you know, for our listeners, Nick and I have—since neither of us have kids, always like to have that one caveat. We don't know.

Nick: We don't know.

Leah: But that being said, I think that the polite thing to teach people, or the polite thing to put out there is we call people what they'd like to be called.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: So the kids started out with Mrs. Smith.

Nick: Great.

Leah: And then Mrs. Smith said, "Oh, I actually like to go by Lisa." And then we adjust.

Nick: Yes. And I think the mother here is not wrong. It is polite to use titles, but that's actually where we begin. That is not where we end. And so yes, we start there. And then the etiquette lesson that needs to be taught is that if somebody says, like, "Oh, call me this," then we do that. And so this etiquette rule actually does need, like, a second part. The mother here is only using the first part.

Leah: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's so interesting that our Brownie troop leader said this to this person. "Oh no, I would like to be called this." Like, has said it. Hasn't written in being like, "Can I say this or is it appropriate?" They've said it, and then this person was still like, "Nah."

Nick: And I think of etiquette like sort of concentric circles, where we have rules within rules within rules. And for this, yes, there is a rule: Use titles, but we actually need to go a circle out. And the bigger rule here is have respect for your elders, or have respect for your teachers, or have respect for your troop leader. And that is more important than the using titles.

Leah: Yes. And our elder in this case wants to be called Lisa.

Nick: So yes, so that would be polite. And I get that we want to have an easy rule to teach our kid, like some sort of like, here's the rule. So, like, this is what we always do. And I get that black and white, all or nothing is sometimes sort of the easy way to teach some of these lessons at the beginning. Unfortunately, etiquette is a lot of gray. And so we will need to layer in some of this nuance sooner than later. And I think this is a good place to do it, which is like, the rule is respect your elders, be formal until you're told otherwise. But if told otherwise, then that's what we're doing.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So our next question is, quote, "I'm getting married soon, and many people have sent presents off our registry ahead of the event. I plan to send physical thank-you notes after the event so I can include a photo from the day as well as thank people for their attendance in addition to the gift, include an anecdote from the evening, et cetera, et cetera. However, it feels rude to wait so long to thank people who have already sent their gifts. I've been sending a text to acknowledge the receipt of the gift and to send an initial thank you, but I fear they will think I am rude for not sending a physical piece of mail. What say you?"

Leah: I wish that our audience could see the smile that Nick just gave me.

Nick: [laughs] What say me? Hmm! Yeah. Actually, I wrote down, quote, "There is no way for me to respond to this without being sassy." [laughs] Yes, it does feel rude, doesn't it, letter-writer? It does. Why does that feel rude? Hmm. Let me count the ways. Yeah, the formal note is for the gift. It is not for the attendance. And this is a very common ...

Leah: No, no, no. They're saying they want to wait because they want to include pictures.

Nick: Oh, I—oh, I get that. Oh, I've heard that before. Yeah. No, I get what we're trying to do. This is very common. I don't want to say it's a mistake, but it is very common and it is not correct. But many people do wait to send the thank-you notes for the gift for the express purpose of sending photos from the event in the thank-you card. And so they wait. They wait. They wait so long for these photos. I mean, let's say you wait—let's say charitably you wait eight weeks after the event for your photos. And let's say I gave you the gift three months before your wedding, 90 days. Now I'm waiting five months for a thank-you note? Yeah, that is too long. That is too long. So what you should do, you should send the thank-you note as soon as you get the gift. That's the rule. You should do it. And then after the event, send that text with a link to your photo album online, and then let people download the digital copies of whatever they want then. Because honestly, people just want the digital copies. They don't need a hard copy from you. Save the postage. But do the thank-you note in the mail as soon as you get the gift, whenever that is. And it may be before the event.

Leah: I, as a person who's received many thank-you cards from weddings ...

Nick: Sure.

Leah: ... have no problem waiting, because I understand that people are getting married and there's a lot happening, and they want to also have thoughts on the day in their card.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Maybe they waited to open their presents. I love that our letter-writer is being like, "Hey, I got it. Wanted you to know I got it."

Nick: It's not Christmas morning.

Leah: It might be. I don't know how they do things.

Nick: I mean, that is true that actually there is a style of wedding where they do wait to open the presents. Yeah.

Leah: A lot of people wait until the evening of their wedding and they open all the presents before their honeymoon.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. In which case, I guess, how would you know how to thank people?

Leah: So I think it's fine. You get the thing. You say, "Hey, I want you to know I got it. Thank you so much."

Nick: I will say the acknowledgement. I do appreciate we're doing the acknowledgement. I will say that in our day and age, many people receiving that text will think that's the whole thing. Many people will be surprised to get a thank-you note later.

Leah: I would say, "Thank you so much." Either—you know, either for the people who wait, "We're waiting, and then I'm gonna send out cards. I just want you to know we got it. I'm so excited to open it." Or "I'm gonna send you a card afterwards. I wanted to include, like, pictures from the wedding. I just wanted you to know I got it and I'm excited."

Nick: Okay. So in order to make this work in that text message, we have to indicate don't worry, a real thank-you note is coming.

Leah: Don't you worry, Nick.

Nick: I need that assurance. Well, because I will say if we're gonna be real honest, little vulnerable, if I got that text, I would assume that was it and that no thank-you note was coming. And then I would be resentful through the event itself. I would be sitting at that wedding, being like, "Huh, the cake's good, but didn't get a thank-you note." I would have that feeling throughout the whole event. I would feel resentment, anger, frustration. I would feel like I failed. I couldn't make the people hosting this wedding follow proper etiquette? And then I would be, like, so delighted afterwards to get a note. I would be honestly shocked and surprised, but I would have those feelings.

Leah: I think also there are different types of brains in this world.

Nick: Okay, sure.

Leah: And there's a Nick brain who can send it out as it comes in. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Then there's other people's brains who are like, "I'm gonna do this all at the same time." When I'm in a framework, I'm in the card writing framework. I gotta do it in a group. To be able to function.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And I get that.

Nick: I get that, too. I think the issue here is that when people do nice things for you, it's important to express gratitude, right? We all agree on this.

Leah: But she's going to express gratitude.

Nick: Well, but I don't know that. I just sent you a KitchenAid mixer, and now eight months later, I'm gonna get a card with a photo.

Leah: What if in her text she said, "More coming. Just want you to know I got it."

Nick: That would give me a little more peace.

Leah: Would you feel better?

Nick: I would feel better. I would. I would still prefer you send the card, because honestly, people, to send a card and to send a text? Relatively same amount of time. Very close.

Leah: For you.

Nick: Well, follow the Nick Leighton method. Follow my easy 10-step method. And you, you too can send physical mail as fast as a text. But okay, I get your point, Leah. I get your point. All I want for the world is to show gratitude sooner than later. So I guess if you're achieving that, okay, great. Or let's split the difference. For the people on your guest list who are like me, who really would like to have an acknowledgement of that gift—and you know who those people are, you know who on your guest list are gonna be in the Nick category—just send me my note and then don't worry about everybody else. How's that?

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Send Leah her note never. Send me mine promptly.

Leah: I've gotten notes, like, a year later and I was delighted.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, better late than never. Sure.

Leah: Well, I wasn't timing it.

Nick: Yeah. Well, that's how we're different. [laughs]

Leah: I just sometimes worry that people don't get things. That's why I love a text. That way I don't have to worry that I sent it to the wrong place.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think that's very good. Yeah, to not acknowledge a gift at all, that is rude. And so we do need prompt acknowledgement. Yes.

Leah: So I feel like when it comes to notes, I know everybody's gonna follow Nick's ...

Nick: No, there's many people who are on Team Leah on this one, so you're not alone.

Leah: Well, I don't like to think of us as teams. We're not in camps. It's not a war. We're informing each other.

Nick: There are many people that I feel like are more aligned with your philosophy. How's that?

Leah: I like that verbiage very much. Thank you!

Nick: Yes. And I am quite strict on it, I know. I am wanting to sort of be a maximalist here in the hopes that people will at least settle somewhere close. Like, if you don't hit my 100 percent, maybe you'll hit the 90, 80 percent mark. Maybe you're gonna get 70 percent of the way. And I can live with that. If we can get to 70 percent compliance with the etiquette rules, that's much better than where most people are. So I'm just trying to, like, tell you where 100 percent is, and then you do your best to get as close to the target as possible.

Leah: I feel we've given our letter-writer all of the answers.

Nick: All of them. Yes. [laughs]

Leah: There is multiple choices. You know ...

Nick: Yes. You can choose your own adventure here.

Leah: What say Nick and casual Leah? What was it you said? Soirée-Shindig?

Nick: Yes. I'm Soirée and you're Shindig. Yeah, so if you want the Soirée approach, you know what that is. If you want to be a little more Shindig, Leah Bonnema's got your back.

Leah: I like that they both start with S's, so that's fun, but I feel like it's more like ...

Nick: I'm canapés and you're ...

Leah: Well, I want to be more of a rock show than a shindig.

Nick: Slasher concert? Is that what it is? I'm Soirée and you're slash metal?

Leah: I don't know if that's a term.

Nick: Is that even a genre? That should be.

Leah: I don't think that's a genre.

Nick: That should be. I'm sure my Spotify can come up with something.

Leah: You're—I don't know. I'm gonna find—I'm gonna find a good word. We'll stick with Soirée and Shindig until we find a better thing that works with both alliteration and something that I'm closer to than Shindig. That is exactly what we are.

Nick: So you out there, do you have any questions for us about shindigs or soirées or anything else? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!