Oct. 19, 2020

Touching Fruit in Italy, Flossing in Public, Answering the Door in a Robe, and More

Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah tackle buying produce in Italy, going on a job interview, flossing in public, opening your door in a robe, and much more. Please subscribe! (We'd write you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)

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  • AMUSE-BOUCHE: Buying produce in Italy
  • A QUESTION OF ETIQUETTE: Going on a job interview
  • QUESTIONS FROM THE WILDERNESS: Is it rude to ask someone to help you bake a cake for a party you're not invited to? When did it become normal to floss in public? When someone shows up at your door unannounced, is it more rude to make them wait while you put on clothes or more rude to open the door in a robe?
  • VENT OR REPENT: Recommending cancelled shows, Voicemail system options that haven't actually changed
  • CORDIALS OF KINDNESS: People who listen, CordialsOfKindness.com




Hosts: Nick Leighton & Leah Bonnema

Producer & Editor: Nick Leighton

Theme Music: Rob Paravonian


[Instrumental Introduction]

Nick: Do you touch fruit in Italy? Do you floss in public? Do you answer the door in a robe? Were you raised by wolves?! Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better
When we have to live together
We can all use a little help
So people don't ask themselves
Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody, it's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And I am Leah Bonnema.

Nick: Let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.

Leah: [Giggling] Oh, let's get in it! I don't know what it is!

Nick: [Giggling] I want to take you to Italy. Picture it - Sicily. We're strolling the streets of Palermo, and we stumble upon this market. Oh, what is this market? Oh, look at all this wonderful produce. There's a stand. They're selling melons. Look at that cantaloupe. Leah, let's buy some cantaloupe. Let's walk up to this stand and buy some cantaloupe. Leah, would you please buy me a cantaloupe?

Leah: A) that was a beautiful picture, and it was so nice, and I love it. I still want a Nick app that I can just listen to things.

Nick: So, please buy me a cantaloupe. What would you do?

Leah: I would touch it.

Nick: Hmmmm.

Leah: But I know I'm not allowed to anymore, right?

Nick: No.

Leah: I'm not supposed to touch it.

Nick: No.

Leah: I would touch it, and I would smell it, but-

Nick: Yeah ... Yeah.

Leah: Since recently, I know that's a no-no.

Nick: [Giggling] Okay, so you know about this. It is true - in Italy, don't touch the fruit. Don't do it. Don't think about it. Un-hmm. This is a very major faux pas, and you will get yelled at. Yes, you will get yelled at.

Leah: Yelled at by Italians, and as an Italian, I'm letting you know, it's a big deal.

Nick: [laughter] Yeah. It is a really big deal.

Leah: We are good yellers.

Nick: I mean, the easiest you'll get off will be a very withering look from an old woman-

Leah: [Giggling]

Nick: -but it will be devastating [laughter] I just want to save you this trouble. Basically, here's how this works - you don't touch it. You go up to the stand, and you basically have to tell them what you want. There will be some follow-up questions from them because they have to select the perfect thing for you, so they may want to know what you're going to do with it. Are you going to roast with it? Is it going to be for grilling? So that they can select the right size, or they may want to know when do you want it? Because they want to know - how ripe is it? Are you going to have it today? Should it ripen tomorrow? Those will be the follow-up questions. This also applies in smaller grocery stores and even big supermarkets. In a supermarket, there will be gloves. There will be plastic gloves near all the produce. You have to put the gloves on before you touch anything. Even though you are allowed to select it yourself, you still have to wear gloves. Otherwise, the aforementioned yelling or withering looks will apply. That's the deal with Italian produce-buying.

Leah: I think you're saving a lot of people.

Nick: Yes, I feel like people only mess up on this once [laughter]

[Musical Interlude]

Nick: We're back and now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Very pragmatically deep.

Nick: [Giggling] For today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about etiquette for going on a job interview.

Leah: So good. I think this is a great, helpful one.

Nick: I mean ...

Leah: I mean, I think they're all great and helpful [Giggling]

Nick: Sure. Some are more helpful than others. I'll admit that. No, I know what's up. But I think this is helpful because nobody has one career anymore. Nobody works for the same company for 90 years and then retires with the gold watch and that's it, so people will be switching jobs, which involves some interviews. So, here are some thoughts, I guess. The first thing is - before you even get there - I think just be prepared. That shows consideration for the person you're about to meet. When you're prepared, that's respectful of their time because you're in, you're focused, you know what the interview questions might be, or you've researched the company, or whatever it is.

Leah: Yeah, I ... For two jobs that I've had in the past, I ended up being the person who did interviews. On two occasions, I remember interviewing people who clearly didn't know what the job was. I don't know if they had just gone out to a bunch of interviews that day and then didn't check their notes to themselves- you know what I mean? Because I was like, "Oh, that's the whole job ..." You know what I mean? [Giggling] Just come in knowing where you are.

Nick: Yes. And something actually I read online is: know the name of the person you're meeting, which I guess comes up - that people forget who they're meeting. So, know who you're meeting for that interview.

Leah: Yeah. If you have a bunch of interviews that day, or if you're a person who gets nervous, so you blank on ... Just write it all down and then, right before you walk in the building, go over your notes real quick.

Nick: Yeah, that's fine. All right. We've arrived-

Leah: And we have arrived in a timely fashion.

Nick: [Giggling] Yes, which also means not too early. Don't get there an hour early either; 15 minutes ahead of time is probably the max.

Leah: I always get places incredibly early because I'm always afraid something will happen with public transportation, so then, I just loop ñ do some nice loops around the block.

Nick: Yeah, and I think there's a couple of different flavors of being early. There's the, "I'm early, and I'm sitting in your lobby, and I've already told you that I'm there." Then, there's, "I've arrived at the building, and I'm ready to walk in, but I'm just going to wait until we get a little closer to the appointed time."

Leah: Right.

Nick: I think you definitely want to be in the office, basically on time - however that is. If you want to get to the lobby a few minutes early, that's great; settle in ... But, yeah, I think there's a limit.

Leah: Oh, definitely, but there's always going to be some kind of security protocol. Factor that in.

Nick: Yes. Definitely in New York, you have to be mindful of what building you're going to. If it's the Freedom Tower, give yourself an extra half an hour.

Leah: I think I was at the Sirius XM building ... I don't remember which- this happened to me first. I got there early- I mean reasonable early, not obscene early. And then, it was an elevator bank that I had not experienced before.

Nick: [Giggling] What does that mean?

Leah: Now, I'm used to them, but the ones where, once you get into the elevator, you had to have pressed the number of your floor outside-

Nick: Oh, right. It's a turbolift. Right.

Leah: -then, once you get in, there's no ... I got in, and I just freaked out because there's no buttons-

Nick: Well because there's no buttons [Giggling] and there's no- you don't even see where the light source is coming from-

Leah: [laughter] No!

Nick: -and even the door disappears, and you're just in this sensory deprivation pod [laughter]

Leah: You're like, "What is THIS!!" Then, finally, it went to the floor the person had called it, and then I went back down with them, and then, somebody else got in, and then, finally, I just looked, and I said, "Hi ... Um, I don't know how to get it to go to a floor ..." [laughter] and then we had a good laugh. [laughter]

Nick: So, know that, if there's an unfamiliar elevator technology you might be encountering. All right, so you have made it to the office. Now we're in the waiting room, and we're checking in. I think my only advice here is be nice to everybody.

Leah: Oh, yeah.

Nick: Be nice to the staff. Be nice to the receptionist.

Leah: It makes a big difference. A) why wouldn't you want to be nice to everybody, anyway?

Nick: Right. You should be nice to everybody, and we shouldn't have to say that ... But ... I've seen a lot of people rude to the receptionist.

Leah: Yeah, and that makes a difference.

Nick: Oh, I know a lot of hiring managers that do ask the receptionist for their feedback about people. They want to know how that interaction was.

Leah: Yeah, because it's so telling about a person's personality.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Also, I think there are waiting rooms where people are very loud. I've seen it happen where there'll be a few people waiting for an interview, and they'll just sort of start talking to people. I think it's fine to be friendly, but don't cut into people's prep time.

Nick: Hmm. I see. So, don't be disturbing.

Leah: Yeah, don't be disturbing.

Nick: Yeah. I feel like that's good advice at all times, but okay [Giggling] We can emphasize it here, sure. Then, we get into the interview. We're in the room now, and I guess we're offered some water. I think there's debate as to whether or not you're supposed to take the water, but I think you should take the water.

Leah: I think if you want the water, take it.

Nick: Yeah, take the water. Yeah ... Take the water.

Leah: Why would you not?

Nick: I don't know why you wouldn't take the water.

Leah: I mean, they're not testing you to be like, "I want them to be offered water and not take it." That's-

Nick: [Giggling] Unless they are.

Leah: In which, if they are, you don't want to work there.

Nick: Oh, that the water is a test? Do they have self-control?

Leah: Self-control in hydrating?! What would be wrong with drinking water?

Nick: So, take the water.

Leah: If you want it.

Nick: Yeah, if you want it, or take the water anyway because I think, actually, it's a good prop if you want to think of an answer, or if you want to kind of break up the rhythm of the interview, it gives you an opportunity to reach for something, and take a sip, and break up the rhythm.

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Very nice.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I would- this would be me - I would take the water-

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: -I would open the water. I would spill it right down my face. [laughter]

Nick: Things go wrong in interviews, so I think a question is - is this catastrophic? No. It's how you handle it. How do you handle the water going down your blouse?

Leah: Oh, I think you just, "Oh, my goodness ..." and then I would laugh at myself, and then I would grab a napkin, and just pat it down, and then I would move on!

Nick: Yes, we move on. We don't dwell. Yes. I think that would be good advice any time you get flustered in an interview - just acknowledge it, or maybe not, and just move on.

Leah: Yep.

Nick: Some things that came up as I was researching this - turn your phone off. Don't have your phone on.

Leah: Oh, definitely.

Nick: Just turn it all the way off.

Leah: All the way off!

Nick: Don't even have it on vibrate.

Leah: Definitely turn it all the way off.

Nick: Then, don't touch stuff! Don't touch stuff on their desk.

Leah: [laughter]

Nick: If they have that little thing with the balls that go back and forth, the little kinetic sculpture thing, don't touch it. Don't touch their stuff.

Leah: Yeah, definitely don't touch their stuff. I also- I read for several auditionings. They say don't shake anybody's hand unless they put it out first. A lot of people don't want to touch people anymore.

Nick: Okay, yeah. I think that's probably fair. I think, in general, you always want to just follow their lead. Follow their lead with body language; follow their lead for where we're sitting. You want to read the room as best you can and just do what feels the most appropriate in that moment.

Leah: That's so funny. Now that you've been like, "Don't touch their stuff," and keep your shoes on ... How far do we have to ...?

Nick: [Giggling] Don't chew gum. Take off your coat. Don't wear sunglasses. I mean, yeah, what else is on this list?

Leah: I am a huge gum-chewer.

Nick: Well ...

Leah: I mean, I've kicked the habit. I've kicked the habit.

Nick: And you know better than to go to a job interview while chewing gum.

Leah: No, but I'm- it would help me with my anxiety. It would keep my mouth wet because when I get very anxious, my mouth dries out.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: So, I've actually worked on this very hard, but for a long time ... I know in all the tapings, interviews, you can't have gum, so I would chew gum up until the last moment-

Nick: Ah, and then what do you do with it?

Leah: -and then I would put it in a tissue in my bag.

Nick: Okay. So, don't forget to take out the gum [crosstalk]

Leah: -yeah, if you're a person who needs gum to keep your mouth wet, which I get happens, if you have anxiety mouth. It's a real thing.

Nick: Yes. I think a cough drop, I guess, is okay. I don't know, that can be a little distracting.

Leah: Cough drops kind of smell.

Nick: Yeah, if it's a very aggressive Ricola kind of thing.

Leah: Somebody'll be like, "Who's got a Hall's Are you getting me sick?!" You know what I mean? I'm just saying-

Nick: [Giggling] Oh, that's true.

Leah: -I understand that sometimes people have gum for their anxiety. Just get rid of it before you get in there.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And not in some weird place, either.

Nick: Um, yes. Please don't-

Leah: -like spit it in the hall when you're walking through [laughter]

Nick: -put your gum in a weird place. That's a long list of places. Something that came up, which I don't understand how is even a thing, but somebody says, "Don't have an oversize handbag." [Giggling] I think, if you go on a job interview, don't bring your Mary Poppins bag with you.

Leah: Well, Mary Poppins actually had a very delicate bag. It just fit a lot of things.

Nick: Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's true. You should get a whole coat rack in there.

Leah: I don't know what that means. I also think-

Nick: I don't know what that means.

Leah: In New York, you have to carry with you-

Nick: That's your whole day.

Leah: -your whole day.

Nick: It's the trunk of your car in there.

Leah: What if you're coming from the airport?

Nick: Yeah, I think that's a weird thing. Yeah.

Leah: Don't bring, I guess, a tent, and an Appalachian Mountain Trail backpack. That's maybe aggressive.

Nick: Yes. I think, in general, be mindful of what you're bringing. Don't bring a harpoon, and a hoagie, right?

Leah: [Giggling]

Nick: I think those are on the No List.

Leah: But I think if we have to worry about our bag size? I mean ...

Nick: Yeah, there's a ... I mean, at the end of the day, I have interviewed people, and I've been interviewed, and I think what is important is just sincerity and authenticity. I think that's just what it is. You don't want to pretend you're somebody you're not, because if you get the job, they're going to figure out who you really are real fast, and that's never good. You also never want to get a job based on, I guess, not being yourself on some level, right? You want them to hire you for you.

Leah: Yeah, because you also want to like them. You want it to be a good mix.

Nick: That's also a good point. You are also interviewing them, right?

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: When you're going in, it's a two-way street. They have to offer you the job, but you also have to accept the job. Let me tell you, I have been on interviews that were so shocking, where it was like, "Oh, I am not interested in this anymore." I went to this one interview where it was set up - I was supposed to meet this guy, and then his boss, and I get to the office, and it was open plan. They had me waiting in their little reception area. He goes to talk to the boss, like, "Oh, Nick's here." And she's like, "Who?" He's like, "Oh, Nick Leighton. He's the 2:00." She's like, "Oh, that's not on my calendar. Who is this? What is this about?" They proceeded to have a whole conversation about how she wasn't interested in having this meeting with me because she didn't know anything about this for 10 minutes, as I'm 10 feet away hearing this whole thing.

Leah: Oh, no! Oh, no!

Nick: I was like, okay, I get it. We don't want to have this meeting. No problem. I can go now. But it's like, what a huge waste of my time. That's just unprofessional, and rude. So, obviously, I'm not interested in working with those sorts of people. Yeah, just know that your behavior, as an interviewer, this also matters.

Leah: Yeah. I think an interviewee- you're allowed to ask questions.

Nick: Oh, sure. Yes.

Leah: Have your questions ready.

Nick: And the most important thing of all ñ afterwards ñ gotta send a thank you note.

Leah: Which is in your thank-you-note cubby [Giggling]

Nick: Your stationery wardrobe. That's right. Yes, you want to send a follow-up email immediately. I think that's very important, while you're still fresh on their mind. "So great to meet you. Thank you for the opportunity to learn more about you and your company. Let me know if there's any more questions or anything else I can do for you." Then, you also want to follow up with a handwritten note. I think that's very nice. Very few people do it. It will make you stand out. If it's between you and one other person, and you're the one that sent the thank you note, it could tip it in your favor. So, do that.

Leah: I remember reading this article about Paul Rudd, from this casting director who said that, early in his career, which- how would we know? He looks the same, 20 years later ... What an amazing man. He sent handwritten thank you notes to the casting director, and then she still remembered it.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it is remarkable, the effect that a handwritten note has for any occasion. It really is remarkable, and we talk about it a lot. It's sort of like a schtick here, but it's not a shtick. We do it. We want you to do it. It really will change the world. Help us change the world. World peace - that's what we're going for, Leah.

Leah: We are. We will not stop until we get world peace!

Nick: That's it. That's the goal of the show.

Leah: No presh-

Nick: Once we get world peace, then we're canceling the show.

Leah: Then, we're done-zo!

Nick: That's it. That's the end of the show - World Peace.

[Musical Interlude]

Nick: We're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you guys in the wilderness.

Leah: [Howling]

Nick: Our first question is: "I was working out of the home office of my boss, who was a close friend. I was leaving one day, and she had a friend over to help her bake a cake for another friend's birthday. She asked if I would like to stay and help her bake a cake for her friend. It was a girls' kind of thing. Granted, I love to bake, and our relationship was friendly and casual, but is it rude that I said no, politely, and that I could not help them because I knew I wasn't invited to the party? I mean, why should I help her bake a cake to a party if I wasn't invited? I was very polite, and I said, 'Oh, sorry, I can't. I have plans after work today.' Isn't it odd to ask your friend to help you bake a cake that you know they won't be able to eat? At first, I felt bad because I felt like I wasn't participating in their girl time, but then I realized I wasn't really their friend."

Leah: This question is slightly confusing because, halfway through, she says, "I said no; why would I make a cake for a party I'm not invited to?" But then, she didn't say that. She just said, "No thank you. I have plans after work today."

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Then she, basically, at the end of the question, has a-

Nick: Epiphany.

Leah: -realization that these people aren't her friends.

Nick: Yeah, right. It starts with, "I was working with my boss. We were friends."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: At the end, it's like, "Oh, wait a minute, we're not friends."

Leah: [Giggling] Yes.

Nick: Yes, that happened. Then, in the middle, I think the thing which is like, "Oh, why would I help you?" That was her internal monologue.

Leah: Yes, that's what I think.

Nick: Then, what she actually said was just this neutral, "Oh, sorry, I can't. I'm busy." I think that's what she actually said.

Leah: Right, which isn't rude at all.

Nick: Which is not rude.

Leah: Not even in the least bit.

Nick: Is the question - is it rude to ask someone to help you bake a cake that they can't eat? I think that's the main question here.

Leah: Well, it wouldn't have been rude if it was during work hours.

Nick: Uh, okay ... If this was part of the job-day thing.

Leah: Yeah, but she's asking her to stay afterwards. "Hey, you wanna hang out afterwards? We're baking a cake for a party that you're not invited to."

Nick: [Giggling] Right. Now, is it rude to invite someone to bake a cake if they can't eat it? Do we feel like that's rude or was that invitation okay?

Leah: I think it's layered ... [Singing] No pun intended ...

Nick: Like a cake! [Giggling]

Leah: Because of the power dynamic in the relationship.

Nick: Yeah, that definitely adds a layer, yes, of GÈnoise.

Leah: The icing on top- [Giggling]

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: -is that it's a home office.

Nick: Yes!

Leah: So, the boundaries here are ...

Nick: Yeah, no, we have we have frosting oozing out.

Leah: [Giggling]

Nick: Yeah, I feel like ... I love to bake. You may not know, I'm actually a professionally trained pastry chef, and I enjoy baking, and I enjoy sharing things. I don't necessarily feel like I need to eat everything. I would actually be very content to make croquembouche, and give it away, and never taste it. I get that it could be fun to hang out, and bake, and, "Here's a cake that you'll take to some party later that I'm not invited to." I'm not personally bothered by that, but I can see why that's also problematic.

Leah: Yeah, I'm exactly where you are, except for with the professional training-

Nick: [Giggling] Mm-hmm.

Leah: and that's that I can see why this would bother a person. It wouldn't bother me because I'd be like, "Oh, we'll just hang out," but I understand why, in this relationship, it's probably happened in other ways with other things.

Nick: Right. And I think this is tricky, when you have a employer that you're friendly with, which I think is nice- I think it's nice to like our employers, but when we confuse employment with friendship, that can be tricky. We don't know if they were friends first and then became employer, or if the employment happened first and then the relationship became friendly.

Leah: I think it's that one.

Nick: Yeah, so I think we may just be misinterpreting friendliness for friendship. Then, the second thing, which also sort of makes it blurry, is that it's home office, like you said.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: We are actually in your home, so that line is very ...

Leah: I think it's just fine to say, like you said, "No, thank you. I have stuff to do."

Nick: Yeah, I think that's fine, and set those boundaries, like, I'm not being paid for this, and I don't really want to do it, so, no.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Our next question is: "When did it become normal to floss in public? My grown-up son, who is almost 30, and his girlfriend, about the same age, are staying with us for a week. After a home-cooked dinner, they get up and start to self-importantly floss their teeth - in the kitchen, walking around, talking about their plans for the evening. I find it gross and very impolite. I don't need to see the results of their explorations."

Leah: I think some of our letter-writers are just the most wonderful wordsmiths.

Nick: This is poetry. Yes.

Leah: It really is.

Nick: So, when did it become normal? Uh, it's not ... It's not normal.

Leah: No, but I have seen it, and I do- I also find it gross. Anything- nail clipping, flossing-

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: -anything that has-

Nick: Grooming!

Leah: -yeah, where there's particles? No! Keep it in with yourself in the bathroom.

Nick: Lizzie Post says, "If it requires a mirror, it requires a bathroom." [Giggling] So, that's good advice.

Leah: Obviously, these people are flossing mirrorless.

Nick: Yeah. There was this survey that was done by one of the companies that makes those plastic picks that you see littered all over cities. It looks like a U-shape with the floss across [crosstalk]

Leah: Oh, yeah, the one-flosser?

Nick: One of those companies did a survey, and they showed that millennials are twice as likely to floss in public than baby boomers. I guess the younger you are, the more likely you are to floss in public. Doesn't mean it's okay.

Leah: Yeah, no matter what your age is, I still find it gross.

Nick: Yeah, no, it's gross, and you shouldn't do it. I think there's a feeling of, "I'm at home, so this is a private space, and therefore it's okay that I do it in front of my mother." No, no ... [Giggling] It's not.

Leah: I'm just making a face, for those at home. I just ... You know, I want to be open and affirming to everybody's habits, but flossing and stuff, just keep it to yourself.

Nick: I mean, the thing about flossing is that you are removing particulates.

Leah: Yeah, that's the word. What did I say? Oh, I said particles. That's okay. As long as I didn't say "particulars."

Nick: So, those particulates often leave your mouth-

Leah: They fly!

Nick: -as flossing is happening. I think that makes this particularly egregious. Yes. Now, I think a question is - can we say anything? Can mom in this story say anything to her grown son? Because, in general-

Leah: Yeah! It's your house!

Nick: It is your house, although is the son a guest in your house? In which case, you probably wouldn't say something to a guest who was doing this ... Or is the son your son, and there's still an opportunity to correct their behavior because you are allowed to correct someone's etiquette if they're your child, and you were helping them become better citizens in society. That's allowed. That's an occasion when you are allowed to correct someone's behavior. But a grown son? Has that window closed? I don't know.

Leah: I don't think so.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I mean, you don't have to do it publicly, so he feels embarrassed in front of his girl lady.

Nick: [Giggling]

Leah: But ... You know what I mean? You could just be like, "Hey, I don't like seeing flossing. Can you do it in the bathroom?"

Nick: Yes, I think you could definitely say something. And I think if you said it in a nice value-neutral, nonjudgmental way, which is like-

Leah: Like, "UGH!!! GROSS!!!"

Nick: "Ugh! Are you flossing?! Who raised you!?" Yeah ...

Leah: [Giggling] Super subtle, like that, would work.

Nick: Mm-hmm. So ... Yeah, but it's gross, and I think don't do it. Also, also, I don't like when people floss in their cars because I still feel like that's kind of public. Even though you're in your own little bubble-

Leah: I haven't seen this.

Nick: Yeah, well, I mean people do all sorts of grooming in their cars.

Leah: I've seen, obviously, people putting on their makeup and stuff. I mean, I know sometimes, say, it's a chewier beef, or-

Nick: Uh-huh? Like a ropa vieja sort of thing?

Leah: [laughter] -or spinach. You get that in there, and it's uncomfortable, and you have to get it out.

Nick: Uh-huh. Uh-huh ...

Leah: I understand that, where you're like, "This is an emergency. It's hurting my face." Okay.

Nick: Mm -hmm.

Leah: I'm just going to throw that out there as like, maybe you had to run to your car because there was a piece of chicken that was going to put you over the edge.

Nick: No, I don't mean run to your car in the parking lot to get floss that you need. I mean you're stopped at a stoplight, and you're going to town on your third molar.

Leah: I just can't ... I haven't seen it.

Nick: Okay. Well, it happens. So, our next question is: "Say that you're working from home and are typically in your underwear or robe. If someone walks up unannounced, is it more rude to make them wait while you throw on clothes, or is it more rude to answer the door with a robe tied tightly, so it kind of looks like you're naked underneath?"

Leah: Let me say what's rude is the person arriving unannounced.

Nick: That's what I find shocking, right!

Leah: Unless it's a delivery, because sometimes, things don't come on the day you realized and then, obviously, they're just doing their job, but if you swung by to say hello, it's not my fault I'm naked!

Nick: So, is it fine to show up at the door for UPS in your robe then?

Leah: It's just a robe. I don't see why it's rude.

Nick: I mean, I think, definitely, a robe probably covers you up more than what a lot of people wear on the street.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: And we're talking like a terrycloth robe from a hotel, not gauzy negligee.

Leah: Either way, if I was your UPS person, I don't care what you wear to the door.

Nick: [Giggling] Right. "Just please sign, ma'am."

Leah: Just sign.

Nick: [Giggling]

Leah: But if you're a person I know, and you just swung by, A), I'm probably going to hide [laughter]

Nick: Actually, if there's a knock on the door, I will actually play possum. I will freeze, and I will get very quiet, and I will wait for them to go away.

Leah: Here, it's so nerve-wracking. When I'm at my parents, it happens all the time, and I can't un-New York myself. I can't undo all the years here, where I'm like, "Why is there someone at the door?!"

Nick: I once had one of my neighbors - sidebar; told sidebar - wake me up at 6:00 a.m.-

Leah: No!

Nick: -on a Saturday-

Leah: No.

Nick: -knocking on my door. Why? Because one of our other neighbors wasn't separating their recycling-

Leah: No, no, no!

Nick: -and wanted to know if that was a problem. 6:00 a.m. on a Saturday. Can you imagine?

Leah: I can't imagine!

Nick: That was the last time I ever opened the door. It's like if the building is burning down, the doorman will call up, that's all. Yeah. Can you imagine?

Leah: No, I can't imagine. Who ... Who puts that- like that's okay in their brain?
Nick: Yeah, this is total insanity. So, yes, I don't answer the door. I play possum. If you need me, have the doorman call up. Otherwise, it's not important.

Leah: [laughter]

Nick: For our robe/underwear-wearer, we're saying it's fine.

Leah: I think do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable. You had no control over when this person was showing up.

Nick: That's true. It's not really rude to make them wait.

Leah: No!

Nick: I guess you would shout through the door, like, "Oh, one minute ..."

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: You want them to know that you're home. It'll just be a minute to recombobulate, and then open the door.

Leah: Recently, my landlord came by, and he knocked on the door, and I was, as we said, shocking ... I looked through the little thing, and I saw it with him. I was like, "Hey, what's up?" He had a reason that was .... I said, "Just one second." He's not- he's my landlord, and I don't want to have my robe. You know what I mean?

Nick: Right.

Leah: And I just had him wait, and I put on clothes, and he didn't care, and I didn't care.

Nick: Right. Okay, so I think whatever makes you comfortable, either is fine.

Leah: But if a friend stopped by, I'd stay in my robe. You came by, you get to see me casual.

Nick: For me, I'm always camera ready, even if you stop by. I'm still in full hair and makeup. I'm ready to roll.

Leah: 6:00 a.m., you woke up ready to go [crosstalk]

Nick: That's it because if you stay ready, you don't gotta get ready.

Leah: [Giggling]

[Musical Interlude]

Nick: We're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent-

Leah: [Singing] Vent or Repennnnnnnnt.

Nick: -which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So, Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: I've really been struggling with this because I'm having less and less interactions with people, and I've gotten really good at apologizing in real time for my repents.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I mean, I'm just walking around being like-

Nick: Got nothing left. Nothing in the tank.

Leah: -"So sorry I did that." Then, my vents are so specific-

Nick: Hmmmm.

Leah: -to things that have happened on the job-

Nick: We can't protect your anonymity anymore.

Leah: But it's also like who wants to hear about a thing that happened with the comic? Nobody.

Nick: I mean ... [Giggling]

Leah: Then, I was thinking, what am I going to talk about? And then, a Facebook memory came up, and it's just three pages of me being very upset about something.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I reread it, and I thought it was so funny. This is a legitimate vent I have, and I still stand by it. I still think this is egregious.

Nick: Okay, bring it.

Leah: You need a quick little backstory on it, and that's: I grew up without watching TV. I'm unfamiliar with watching television as a series. I came to it late in life.

Nick: Okay, so you don't know about Punky Brewster? You don't know about Cherie in the fridge.

Leah: I don't even know what Cherry in the Fridge is. Is that a show?

Nick: It's a very special episode of Punky Brewster, let me tell you.

Leah: Oh, I don't. I don't know about it.

Nick: Take the doors off the fridge, people! If you're gonna throw out a fridge, take the door off. Very important. Okay.

Leah: Oh, no!

Nick: Yes!

Leah: I'm gonna have to look that up later.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I learned about television. I got my own television. I'm into it. I'm loving it-

Nick: Mm-hmm. You made up for lost time.

Leah: Yeah, I'm making up for lost ... I love BBC thrillers. Murder mysteries. That's my thing. A friend recommended the show White Chapel.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: I'm in it. You gotta put some time in on White Chapel because they didn't find their rhythm right away, but I hung in there.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I hung in there. I hung in there.

Nick: You invested.

Leah: I invested copious amounts of time, and then, White Chapel got canceled!

Nick: [Gasping]

Leah: And then, it got canceled without them finishing out a major storyline!

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I have now invested all of this time, and now I have an open-ended story in my mind that will never be closed! My friend knew the show had been canceled. It was out a very long time ago. I contacted ... "Why would you recommend show to me that was canceled?" Because I can never now find out that ending, ever! Because I don't have TV experience, that feeling of being broken-hearted, that somebody would just take their funding away, and I'm never going to find out-

Nick: Wow!

Leah: -is so upsetting to me! You can't Google something before you start watching it. I did that once with Battlestar Galactica, just to see where I knew somebody from; I found out something that I didn't know was going to happen. Ugh!! Never again!

Nick: I'm in the middle of season three of Battlestar Galactica right now, so don't tell me anything.

Leah: I say nothing. Don't Google anything.

Nick: [Giggling] So say we all.

Leah: So say we all! If you recommend something to somebody, you have to tell them in advance that the show gets canceled and they will be left with unanswered questions for the rest of their lives!

Nick: Wow. Okay, that's a powerful vent!

Leah: That's the thing I wanted to share. I was real worked up about it [Giggling] for a long ... I actually wrote to somebody just because, you know, I'd never had experience with it. I realize now this happens to so many people, that they love a show, and it ends. I was like, "Can you just hire somebody to close out stories for us? Why is that not a job? I just want to know!"

Nick: "I just need closure." Yeah.

Leah: I need closure on this thing that I've dedicated hours and hours! That amounts to daysto ...

Nick: I'm sorry. I'm sorry this happened.

Leah: [laughter]

Nick: Well, speaking of wasting time, I would also like to vent.

Leah: Great!

Nick: Here is my vent - phone systems; phone systems that ask you to: "Please listen carefully, as our options may have changed."

Leah: Hmm.

Nick: Really? Have they changed? Have they changed? And do I really need to listen carefully? Why have you wasted all of this time telling me this in this recording, when you could have just gotten right to it, and you really think I memorized your menu options? You really think I remember what four was, and I was going to push it unless you told me to listen carefully? How was I listening before? Casually? If you run a company that has a voicemail system, and you have a: "Our options may have changed" message, get rid of it. Those options have not changed. You are lying to all of us. You're wasting our time. Please don't do that. Just eliminate it. Thank you. That is my vent.

Leah: [laughter]

Nick: It's so infuriating. I know this is clichÈ, but I just- I find it so egregious in this year of our Lord 2020 that we still have phone mail systems that are inefficient and waste your time.

Leah: No, I appreciate this so much-

Nick: Why am I even still talking to anybody on the phone anymore? [laughter] That's really what it is. Why am I having to call you at all?

Leah: I agree, and I feel like you really voiced that for all of us.

Nick: Thank you.

[Musical Interlude]

Nick: So, Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that somebody out there on the interwebs is bag shaming; saying, if you're going to an interview, you gotta keep your bag small." I just don't agree. Love your bag.

Nick: It's how you use the bag that matters.

Leah: It really is.

Nick: I learned that if I recommend a TV show to you, it better have an ending!

Leah: [laughter] It better have an ending!

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks you out there for listening. If I had your address, I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery. For your homework this week, I want your questions, I want your vents, and I want your repents. You know you have them.

Leah: [laughter]

Nick: You know you have them. There's an etiquette crime probably happening to you right now, as you're listening to me. Tell me about them. Send it in. Send it to our website, and we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

[Instrumental Theme Song]

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to say nice things. Ready, set, go.

Leah: I was Zooming in to therapy this week [Giggling]

Nick: Okay. Very modern.

Leah: I just- I wanted to say to my therapist, "Let's talk about you," just because I was thinking about anybody who listens to people - therapists, guidance counselors, priests, pastors - I'm sure that it has been a wild year for them. I'm so grateful for people who open themselves up to listen to other people, and I wish we could send them a collective fruit basket.

[Buzzer Sound]

Nick: [Giggling] Okay. Okay, just a Harry & David box of pears.

Leah: [Giggling] Yeah. That's what ... Pears! Can we just send them all pears? They must be exhausted!

Nick: And I would like to say thank you to you, Leah, for this Cordials of Kindness idea, which I guess is fine. Our listeners apparently like it. So, what I have done is I've created CordialsofKindess.com, where you out there can participate. If you want to have a Cordial that you want to have us say, maybe we'll say it. You can send in your Cordial. They have to be under 30 seconds, though, and the good ones, maybe we'll read. So, CordialsofKindess.com. Thank you, Leah. Not a bad idea.

Leah: Oh, that's so ...! I'm smiling so hard my face hurts. That's so sweet! That's so sweet!

Nick: [Giggling]

Leah: Thank you, Nick!

Nick: Thank you!

[Buzzer Sound]