Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah tackle eating grapefruits, paying for damaged pans, photographing Great Danes in public, and much more. Please follow us! (We'd send you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)
Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah tackle eating grapefruits, paying for damaged pans, photographing Great Danes in public, and much more. Please follow us! (We'd send you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)
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Hosts: Nick Leighton & Leah Bonnema
Producer & Editor: Nick Leighton
Theme Music: Rob Paravonian
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Nick: Do you squeeze your grapefruits? Do you break things and not offer to fix them? Do you take photos without permission? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!
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Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.
Leah: And I'm Leah Bonnema.
Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse-bouche.
Leah: I'm always excited!
Nick: So for today's amuse-bouche, I want to talk about grapefruits.
Leah: I love grapefruits.
Nick: Do you?
Leah: I do, yeah.
Nick: Okay. So brief history: citrus fruit goes back millions of years, but grapefruit? Relatively new—late-1600s, maybe 1700s. And then the pink grapefruit, that's only like 1910.
Leah: You know, I would have put that in the beginning. Since the beginning of time. [laughs]
Nick: So no, you would be wrong. So apparently, Europeans, as they were gallivanting around the globe, they planted citrus trees all over. And I am not a horticulturist, but it is my understanding that citrus trees will hybridize if you get them too close to each other. Like, if you plant an orange tree too close to a pomelo tree, they can create a hybrid nearby. And that is exactly what happened on Barbados in the late-1600s, early-1700s. An orange tree got too close to a pomelo, and voila, we got the grapefruit.
Leah: It's like a love story!
Nick: It is like a love story. Yes, an orange and a pomelo have a special hug.
Leah: [laughs] [singing] One weekend in Barbados.
Nick: So why is it called "Grapefruit?" Well, some people say it's because as grapefruits are growing, they grow in clusters that look like grapes. And other people say that whoever sort of was first recording this thought that they tasted like grapes. So who can say for sure? But the question is: how do you eat them? And we're talking, like, half a grapefruit in a bowl for breakfast. Leah, how do you eat this?
Leah: Well, I actually recall one time I showed a picture of how I was eating a grapefruit on my Instagram, and you were mortified.
Nick: I don't remember this at all. What were you doing?
Leah: I peel it like an orange.
Nick: Oh! I mean, that's a valid approach, I guess.
Leah: I do it as, like, a nighttime snack. So you have, like, an activity.
Nick: Oh, maybe it was the midnight grapefruit eating I had an issue with.
Leah: [laughs] As opposed to, like, a breakfast grapefruit where you slice it in half.
Nick: Right. So Miss Manners says that in order to eat a grapefruit half, quote, "One really has to love them. It is so much easier to grab some juice for breakfast, and not have to worry about getting to the dry cleaners before work."
Leah: I mean, you could wear a bib, Miss Manners.
Nick: Right. Yeah, she does not go to the bib that often, and that should be in some people's repertoire.
Leah: Work in a bib!
Nick: But she does say that a spoon is the correct implement, or more correct, a grapefruit spoon, which is really just a variation on something much older called the orange spoon. Because actually, people used to eat oranges in half the same way we eat grapefruits.
Nick: And Amy Vanderbilt, she agrees. But then she adds, quote, "Do not squeeze out juice at the table, except with family—if the family can stand it.
Nick: And I was like, "What does she mean by that? Like, don't bring a juicer to the table?" Or ...
Leah: Oh, no. I know exactly what she means.
Nick: Yeah, what does she mean?
Leah: So this is how we do it, too. Well, A) when once the grapefruit's halved, I actually go around the sides with a knife so it's loose.
Leah: And then you open all the pockets up and then eat it with your grapefruit spoon, or just a regular spoon if you don't happen to have one. And then at the end, you take that half, you squeeze the juice into the spoon, and then you got a little grapefruit juice.
Leah: You know, my family can stand it. We can take it.
Nick: And Charlotte Ford, who we actually don't talk about that often, but she's ambient as an etiquette person. She says that no matter how tempting, don't pick up the fruit to squeeze the last bit of juice onto your spoon. So Charlotte Ford, I don't think would be very excited about what's going on in your house.
Leah: I mean, Charlotte Ford has never heard of people getting vitamin C deficiencies.
Nick: No. Very insensitive of her. So etiquette rules do not exist in a vacuum, of course. And there are almost always two rules that need to interlock. So I think while we're talking about how to eat it, I think we should talk about how to serve it, which is if you're serving grapefruit, you should cut all the segments very carefully to make sure that your guests don't have any trouble getting all the segments out, and to remove as many seeds as possible. So I think that would be very nice as the host of a grapefruit event.
Leah: Oh, I think yes. And as soon as you said grapefruit event, I thought, this is an event I want to have.
Nick: And in my travels researching grapefruit, I did come across this amazing thing from Costa Rica, which is they take grapefruit and they stuff it with dulce de leche.
Leah: Oh, wow!
Nick: Right? Does that not blow your mind?
Leah: It actually blows my mind.
Nick: Yeah, yeah. So I will post a recipe to this in our show notes. I have not tried this yet, but this is a very high priority for my weekend.
Leah: Is it frozen?
Nick: No, it's not frozen. No, you actually boil the grapefruit, I saw with one recipe, and then somehow that kind of makes it less bitter, and then somehow you inject this thing with dulce de leche. Not sure how the mechanics work. I need to do some more research, but I think the idea of grapefruit with dulce de leche, I'm on board with both of these things.
Leah: Very interesting. Very interesting.
Nick: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So grapefruit ...
Leah: The Barbados love story.
Nick: It's timeless.
Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.
Leah: Deep and—what did we say, "Delicious?"
Nick: I mean, you can. Depends on where you're going.
Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about supermarkets. And I think this is one of those topics that this is not one and done. This is not, "We're gonna say everything that needs to be said. We will fix all the problems. There will be nothing further to say." It's like, we will revisit this from time to time. I think we will start here, and we might need to kind of loop back like a comet.
Leah: Like a comet! [laughs]
Nick: Right? Yeah. You know, it periodically comes back through the solar system from time to time. We may do the same for these sort of deep dives that require reminders from time to time. So supermarkets. What's on your list?
Leah: You know, the top of my list was: return your cart.
Nick: I ended with that because I was kind of going in chronological order, but we could start there. Yeah, return your cart.
Leah: I started it at the end because I have a lot of cart issues. I hate it when people come in so close to you in line that their card hits the back of your ankle.
Leah: Such a tender area, you know? You're like, "Can we back up a little bit?"
Nick: Don't hit people with carts. Yeah, I think that's a good rule.
Leah: Don't hit people with your carts.
Nick: Yeah, that's fair.
Leah: And return your carts.
Nick: Mmm, yes.
Leah: I think we can open and close with return your carts.
Nick: Well, as long as we're talking about carts, I think everything that's happening with cards: blocking the aisles with carts ...
Leah: Oh, yeah. If you're looking at something and then you remember, "Oh, I wanted to look at something else," and then I just leave my cart in an area that makes it so people can't walk through there.
Leah: I'm gonna move your cart. I'm gonna put my hands on your cart, and I'm gonna move it.
Nick: Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, I think if you abandon your cart and it's in the way, someone can move it. Yeah.
Leah: I just had a flashback to a mortifying thing that I did in a Walmart recently.
Nick: [laughs] What?
Leah: This lady's cart and my cart were right next to each other. And, you know, I was distracted as I usually am, and I turned—I was in the pajama section, which is one of my favorite sections in Walmart.
Nick: That's a whole section?
Leah: Yeah, it's phenomenal. They have—it's very soft and there's, you know, Halloween. It's amazing. There's occasions, you know what I mean, for holidays? Anyway, I turn ...
Nick: Oh, it's thematic PJs, and it rotates seasonally?
Nick: Oh, interesting. You know, I've actually never been to a Walmart.
Leah: I know.
Nick: [laughs] It's one of my defining characteristics.
Leah: I know it's—I think it's very good of you.
Nick: No, it's not that I don't want to go, it's just I haven't had occasion. I grew up on the West Coast, I moved to New York City. We don't have Wal-Marts in either of these places.
Leah: I love a Walmart pajama section.
Nick: Okay, so you're in the section. There's carts side by side.
Leah: I turn around, I'm trying to decide between these two different pajama choices. And so I'm kind of, you know ...
Nick: And you couldn't just do both.
Leah: I couldn't just do both because I was like, "You have one drawer of pajamas and you're going over limit."
Leah: And I turned back around and I grab her cart instead of my cart, and I just start walking with it. And then she comes up to me and I thought she just wanted to have a conversation. And I was like, "Oh, blah blah blah." And she's like, "No, you have my cart." And I was like, "Oh, my goodness! I am so sorry!" And then I just run into an explanation. Basically, I was like, "I'm so sorry, I'm just—I'm overwhelmed by pajamas, and I was distracted by wonderfulness."
Nick: That seems like a perfectly fine etiquette resolution.
Leah: I guess the major segue here back to the point being, you may accidentally steal a cart.
Nick: Things do happen, yes.
Leah: And we should just apologize right away. And I think we don't steal carts on purpose. Somebody doesn't leave a cart and then we think, "Oh, we want that cream." Obviously, that's a no no.
Nick: We also don't shop from other people's carts.
Leah: We definitely do not shop from other people's carts.
Nick: So you're like, "Oh, I could use some eggs." Poink!
Leah: "I don't want to walk over there. There's some right here." That's a no.
Nick: Yeah, that is also a no no. Does that happen, though? I guess it must happen.
Leah: I mean, it must happen. Some of the letters we get, we have to assume that everything happens.
Nick: That's true. Everything does happen. Yeah, that's true. And then everything else on my list really is about things that happen once you get into line.
Leah: It's really the line.
Nick: Like, it's just really once we get to the line. Yeah, that's where the trouble is.
Leah: Well, I think the trouble is also there could be trouble at the deli counter line, but that's just another line.
Nick: Yes, I mean lines in general, sure. But I mean, at the deli counter, is it just like not being ready when you step up? Like, what else is there?
Leah: Well, I think it's also wait your turn.
Leah: You can always visibly see people who are waiting. So it's don't reach across and be like, "Excuse me, can I get a half pound of honey turkey? Thank you!"
Leah: You know what I mean?
Nick: Yeah, I get it. And then once we are in line to check out, I mean, pay attention to the sign. Do you have more than 10 items? You know if you do or not. You know how to count. Like, don't think 11 is 10. It's not. And yes, you could probably get away with it. Doesn't mean it's right.
Leah: Doesn't mean it's not on your karma list.
Nick: Right? So respect the sign for the number of items for that lane. Thank you.
Nick: And then once you're in line, that's it. You are in the line. We do not leave the line to do more shopping. So if you get in the line, you've committed to checking out and completing that process. If you need to do more things, then you need to exit the line completely.
Leah: It's true. I mean, I've been guilty, you know?
Nick: What? You, like, run out and get more hummus?
Leah: They're checking out and you're like, "Oh my goodness, I forgot my milk! I'm gonna sprint. I'm gonna sprint. I will be back by the time you finish running my stuff through." And I know that's—oh, what a faux pas!
Nick: Well, here's a question: is it okay if you can make it to the milk and back before the checkout process is complete?
Leah: I think it's okay if you know you can make it back. If you know exactly where your item is and it's very close, I think it's fine.
Nick: I think you will be causing anxiety to the people behind you in line. So if you could somehow give them an assurance that, "I am a marathon sprinter. I hold the record in my high school for track. I can make it to the milk case and back by the time you're up." If you could do that and provide some, like, assurances to make people feel more calm about you disappearing? Okay.
Leah: And it's true. I've been there. I've been behind a person many times who said that they will be right back and then they weren't. And we all stood there for, you know, countless ages. Ages past.
Nick: Yeah, and that is definitely rude because now you've also lied.
Leah: Now you're dishonest.
Nick: [laughs] So there's that. Yeah, that just compounds the crime. Sure. And I think if you are in line and you've decided, "Oh, there's something I don't want," you know, don't just shove eggs into the magazine rack. You should put stuff back where you got it, especially if it's perishable.
Leah: I think the cashier—this would be an interesting thing to actually ask cashiers: would they rather you just handed it to them and say, "I had this. I don't want to get it." That way it can be put back properly.
Nick: Well, I think given the choice between shoving ham into, like, the paper towels or handing it to an employee who can somehow get it to the right place, or putting it back where you found it, yeah, I mean, I think there's a hierarchy here.
Leah: Well, if you put it back where you found it, you're leaving the line.
Nick: Which maybe that's the consequence of making poor decisions.
Nick: I'm sorry. Decisions have consequences.
Leah: I don't think I've ever put something back, so I can't use real life experiences.
Nick: And then what about people who pay with exact change or coupons or check?
Leah: I mean, I haven't seen a check in so long that honestly, if I saw one, I would have to give them a round of applause.
Nick: [laughs] Right. And you know it would be the type of check that has, like, kittens on it, or some, like, special design.
Leah: It better be. If I see a checkbook come out and there's not some kind of a design ...
Nick: And for some of our listeners, a checkbook is this thing that's a piece of paper, and you just write money on it and you sign it and you just give it to them and they're like, "Oh, okay, we assume you're good for it because you wrote words on paper."
Leah: I still write checks.
Nick: Yeah, there's a couple of things I actually still have to write checks for. It's fun. I enjoy it.
Leah: It's really—I enjoy it.
Leah: You know, I'm from an exact change place. I always try to have exact change if I'm using cash, which is like once in a blue moon.
Nick: Yeah, I think if you do want to use cash, I think you gotta be ready. You gotta have your change purse at the ready. Gotta know where all your nickels and dimes and pennies are so that you're, like, ready to count. This is not when we begin the process of digging to find the change.
Leah: If you have a glass jar of change and you dump it out on the counter.
Leah: I would say. "Uh, no." For some reason, I immediately thought of Christmas with the Kranks, and Jamie Lee Curtis is—I don't want to give it away, but there's a situation with a honey glaze.
Nick: *[laughs] How old is this movie? I feel like you're allowed to have a spoiler at this point.
Leah: It's a great movie. There's a situation with a honey-glazed ham.
Nick: Mm. Isn't there always?
Leah: And there's only one left.
Leah: And it's like a big, big to do for this—you know, who's gonna get that ham? I feel like if you know somebody's going for something and there's only one left, you can't reach in front of them.
Nick: Oh, yes. I mean, I think whoever gets it first is the correct owner of that item. And I think shoving people or doing things to sort of disrupt the natural flow I think is considered improper. Right.
Leah: Yeah. I think that would be rude if I, like, threw you out of the way for the last Greek yogurt, you know?
Nick: Yeah. I mean, no Greek yogurt is worth that.
Nick: And those are really the main things.
Leah: I think we might have forgotten one, which is sampling.
Nick: Oh! Oh. Oh, that's a minefield.
Leah: I think some things aren't for sampling.
Nick: Sure. Produce?
Leah: Produce. Those candies in, like—you know, sometimes there'll be candies in a barrel?
Nick: Oh, anything in the bulk section.
Leah: Not for sampling.
Nick: Right. No, sampling is only for when there is a person with an apron ...
Leah: And it says "Free sampling."
Nick: ... saying, "Would you like a sample?" Right. Yeah, that is the only time you're allowed to probably eat in the supermarket, right?
Leah: Yeah, just throwing that out there.
Nick: Now here's a variation on that question: let's say you are thirsty and you are planning on paying for the beverage, but you want to open it while you're shopping.
Leah: I think that's fine.
Nick: That is fine. Yeah, I think I'm okay with that. Yes. You have to pay for it.
Leah: You have to pay for it.
Leah: And I don't think it's—as long as you're not popping the cork out of a wine bottle, you know what I mean?
Nick: Right. Yeah, I think if it's just a soda or, like, a water, I think that zone feels okay.
Leah: Yeah, I think it's totally fine. I also think if you were gonna, like, buy a big thing of cookies and you're like, "I'm going to get—" I would pop that open and eat it.
Nick: Uh ...
Leah: But then I think when you run it, it has to be okay when you run it across the thing. It can't be a thing that falls out.
Nick: I'm not gonna give you cookies.
Leah: You know, as I say it, I realize it sounds gauche, but ...
Nick: I'm not gonna give this to you.
Leah: I'm not gonna hold it against you if you open your cookies.
Nick: I feel like anything involving eating with your hands that would require a napkin?
Leah: You know, you're probably right. I'm just probably covering the fact that I've for sure done that in my life.
Nick: But then it's like, I don't want string cheese either. Like, I don't want you eating string cheese or yogurt. I don't think I want you eating. I think I'm only okay with beverages in a pinch.
Nick: But even then, I don't know how I feel about anything but water. I don't know. I have mixed feelings about this.
Leah: What's the difference—I mean, besides nutritionally—between a water and a Diet Coke? If it's a bottle.
Nick: I don't know. Energetically, it feels a little different.
Nick: Yeah. Describing the energetics of something, that's the Californian in me coming out, for sure. Anyway, I do think that our audience listening now probably has strong feelings about whether or not it's okay to eat or drink while you're shopping in a supermarket.
Leah: It's probably for sure not okay to eat, but I'm gonna probably admit that I've definitely probably done it.
Nick: Yeah. No, you've done a lot of things which are not okay.
Leah: [laughs] I mean, I obviously paid for it, and I didn't do a thing where, like, the cashier would have problems with it. You know what I mean? It was something that could be folded back up, and then they—I wouldn't want to give anybody extra work.
Nick: I mean, what are you doing to this package of cookies where you're destroying the UPC barcode?
Leah: I mean, you know how I am when I get home. I'm wild!
Nick: [laughs] Okay. I'm sorry I asked.
Nick: So supermarkets? I think if we could all just remember these basic etiquette reminders, I think we'll all have a much nicer experience the next time we're shopping.
Leah: You know, I'm gonna get letters. For sure, I'm gonna get letters about people being like, "You're gross. You eat in a supermarket." I'm not saying I do this regularly. I'm saying sometimes you go shopping, you're so hungry you can't focus. And you're like, "If I could just pull a carrot stick out of this carrot and celery mix, I would make it through." And you're gonna pay for it anyway. And I'm not gonna hold it against you. Maybe your blood sugar is low. You got to eat a little.
Nick: Yeah, somehow I'm more okay with a carrot stick than I am with, like, a cookie.
Leah: I love how it really is that at the end of the day, it's the nutritional value of the foods that you're coming down on.
Nick: It is, yeah! No, I think I definitely need to have it—have better macros. Yeah. But I also don't want you having more than two items that need to be combined. Like, I don't want to see you having carrot sticks with hummus.
Leah: No, I would never. I would never. That's obviously crossing ...
Nick: There's no dip happening.
Leah: There's no dip happening.
Nick: Right. It has to be somehow open the package, grab, like, one of the things off the top.
Leah: And then close it right back up. That's the only place in which this is okay.
Nick: Okay. Okay. Well, I think, as I said in the beginning, this is the start of the topic. We will revisit this from time to time like a comet, and we will see if our feelings evolve about eating in supermarkets.
Leah: I feel like, you know, the goal would be for me to slowly pull Nick to the dark side, but I doubt that's gonna happen.
Nick: Well, that could be the goal. We don't always achieve our goals, Leah.
Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.
Nick: So our first question is quote, "A friend offered to cook me a fancy dinner at my house. She has housemates, and so there are issues with guests coming over to her place. She likes to cook and I don't, so I took her up on it and provided all the ingredients while she provided her cooking skills. In the process, she accidentally destroyed the non-stick lining on a new pan by using the wrong oil on it. I bought a replacement pan as it wasn't a big deal and it was an accident made in good faith, but we both listen to the show and we were wondering who is responsible for replacing the pan in this situation? Would the situation be different if she borrowed my car and got into an accident? Does price matter? We have no hard feelings towards one another, but we do have a friendly bet on the next dinner based on who is technically correct."
Leah: I feel as soon as the term "technically correct" comes in, you should be the one to answer, because my answers are usually emotionally based.
Nick: Okay. I love that we are the arbiter of this.
Leah: I started sweating.
Nick: You're coming to us to settle this.
Leah: It feels like so much responsibility. I'm honored. I'm honored.
Nick: So I'm gonna pass the buck to Miss Manners. And generally speaking, Miss Manners says that it is, quote, "Always gracious for guests to offer to replace any property that they damaged, and for hosts to demur, knowing that a reasonable amount of damage is part of the cost of entertaining." So Miss Manners would say both of you are responsible.
Leah: It's always very weird when I come down on the same side as Miss Manners, but I felt the exact same way. I felt like you offer, the host says, "No, no, I got it."
Nick: Yeah, and that's kind of how that should go.
Leah: Because mistakes happen. No biggie.
Nick: Yeah. And if it's easy for you to replace the pan and it's not very expensive, then yeah, just order another one on Amazon and have it sent directly to them and, like, that's done. So, you know, both things are possible and both are fine.
Leah: And as far as—I think it's a little different if it's a car.
Nick: Yes. Yes, there's insurance.
Leah: There's insurance involved. It may be like a whole thing.
Leah: You know, if it's like—oh, I can't even think of something that's easily fixable anymore. You think it's something small and they're like, "We have to redo the whole side," you know what I mean?
Nick: Right. Yeah, there's a ding. Oh, got to replace the whole car now.
Leah: Yeah, I think a car is different.
Nick: Yes. I mean, I think if you are borrowing someone's car and something notable happens and there's an insurance claim, I think it would be nice to cover the deductible, or at least very strongly offer to do that.
Leah: Well, I think with the car insurance situation, you're just gonna have to sit down and have a talk with your friend and be like, "I would like to take responsibility for this. How can that happen?" Because if it is through insurance, your friend's premiums are gonna go up.
Nick: Also bad.
Leah: So it's like a whole thing.
Leah: So maybe you offer to pay for it outside. Anyway, I think it's different with a car because it's complicated.
Nick: It gets more complicated. Yeah, you will have to have a much more direct conversation when the dollars are higher. And also, when you offer someone your car, there is risk there. And so you do need to assume that, yeah, something could happen to your car. And that's like part of the deal by offering your car that something could happen. So similar to the pan, the cost of doing business when you're entertaining? Yeah, your pan could get ruined. The cost of doing business if you loan a car to somebody? Yeah, something could happen. So if you don't want that to happen definitively, then you just can't ever have people over in your house. You can't leave the house, really.
Leah: [laughs] You can't do anything.
Nick: Yeah, can't do anything. So I am wondering what they wagered based on who was right, because we're basically saying both of them are right.
Leah: Yeah, because it's just the relationship of one person offering, the other person saying, "Don't worry about it, I got it."
Nick: Right. And it's like with the grapefruits: it's interlocking. Etiquette interlocks. And so both people have a part to play to make the etiquette results successful. So that's why both people have to sort of participate here.
Leah: And I've been on both sides of this. I've been the breaker, and when I offered to replace, I genuinely meant it. I was ready to replace. You know, I immediately brought it to the attention. And when somebody broke something in my house and they offered to replace, I was like, "No, no, of course not. I got it."
Nick: So our next question is quote, "I'm a 34-year-old man who works as a project manager in a large, open concept engineering office. I recently grew out my hair, and I love it. I wear it up in a bun when I'm at work, but throughout the day, it works its way out and needs fixing. Would brushing it out and fixing it at my desk make me a boor? I've done this in the men's washroom and garnered some odd looks from my mostly older, short-haired colleagues."
Leah: I think it's important to note for our listeners that it's "boor," B-O-O-R.
Nick: Oh, as opposed to ...?
Leah: As opposed to, like, a bore. Does it make a bore?
Nick: Boring? [laughs] No, I think a man bun? You're not a boring person.
Leah: Yeah. No, I know. That's why I felt it was important to clarify.
Nick: Yes. So as someone with long hair, any thoughts? Any advice?
Leah: Well, this actually reminded me of the—it was like a vent that we got about a person who was upset about their friend who has long hair and shakes it out when people are eating.
Leah: And I had never really thought about it, you know, because I take my hair out of my ponytail in public. And it was the first time it really made me think about if people felt weird when I took my hair down.
Nick: Right. I mean, I think in general, the question is, is this grooming or not? Because grooming in public is not something we typically want to do. And at your desk in an open office? Yeah, grooming is probably not something we want to do at your desk. And so the question is, is fixing your hair grooming? Or is it just putting your hair back up? If it's just putting your hair back up, I think that's fine. If we're brushing it out like Marcia Brady, "4,998, 4,999," then yeah, I think that's maybe a bathroom thing.
Leah: And I think doing it in the bathroom, if people give you odd looks, that's on them. You're in the bathroom.
Nick: Oh, yeah. No, If they're not paying your bills, pay them no mind.
Leah: [laughs] I love these that just pop out of you every now and again.
Nick: [laughs] So yeah, I think if it's grooming? Bathroom. If it's just fixing, desk is fine.
Leah: I think that's a solid delineation.
Nick: There we go. Our next question is quote, "I take my Great Dane out with me quite often, and he gets a lot of unsolicited comments from strangers, people asking to say hi to him, taking pictures, et cetera. Today, a woman had her phone out, clearly filming me and my dog as we waited for my coffee order. A few seconds later, the man she was with whistled to get my dog's attention. I turned around and sure enough, he had his phone up too. They were standing maybe about six feet away from us, and I said, 'Please don't take pictures of us. It makes me uncomfortable.' To which he responded, 'Oh, I can't take pictures of your dog?' I explained that many people take pictures and touch him without asking me first, and that it makes me uncomfortable. They simply said 'Okay,' and turned around and left. This happens often, and while I'm used to it by now, I still hate it. I don't mind if somebody asks to pet my dog, especially if it's a little kid. And I know there are laws that protect people's rights to take pictures of people in public. However, it still feels extremely invasive. Am I wrong to ask people to leave us alone?"
Leah: It is invasive.
Leah: And I get why it bothers you.
Leah: It's really gotten out of control with people taking pictures of other people.
Leah: I was crossing the road just earlier, and I had a coffee, and Lacey and I were crossing the road. And some lady was filming Lacey and I crossing the road through her car window. And I got so irritated!
Nick: Yeah. I mean, just because you can do it—legally, that's allowed—doesn't mean you should.
Leah: I wanted to be like, "Look, I know my dog is extremely good looking but, like, it definitely feels very invasive."
Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think the general rule, whenever you're taking a photo of someone or especially video—I think video feels even worse than photo.
Leah: Video feels even worse.
Nick: Is ask for permission. "Oh, would you mind if I took a photo or video of your beautiful dog?" That's a totally different situation than just, like, doing it without permission.
Leah: I also love, and by "love" I mean, ...
Nick: Not love.
Leah: Yeah. That you actually went as far as to explain why it upset you. You said, "Please don't do this," and then they came back with, "Well, can I just do this part of it?"
Nick: [laughs] Right.
Leah: I mean, who are these people?
Nick: And I think you were very polite. "Yes, this makes me uncomfortable, so I would rather you didn't do that." Like, what a nice etiquette response.
Leah: So nice. Very clear. And I feel like these people were just—you gave them double chances to redeem themselves, and they just acted like poo poo.
Nick: So yeah, definitely don't take photos or video without permission. And I think don't do it in general if it's at someone's expense or it's to make fun of them.
Leah: Oh, really. That's really abhorrent.
Nick: That's, like, not even etiquette at that point. That's just mean.
Leah: It's mean. It's very mean.
Nick: And then I think you don't ever ask for permission to take photos of someone's children. I think that's, like, always off limits. I don't think there's a way in which you could ask to take a photo of someone's child that, like, works.
Leah: Not of a stranger's child.
Leah: Oh, no.
Nick: We're talking about taking photos and videos of strangers here.
Leah: Oh, I know. But even with my friends' kids, I don't post those photos.
Nick: Right. Yeah. No, I think in general, photos of children on social media or the internet when they're not your children? That's definitely an area you want to stay away from.
Leah: Yes. And as far as going up to strangers, I just think these people are so rude. And our letter writer, as you said, had such honest, polite responses. And whoever these two people are, I mean ...
Nick: But I think really the lesson here is you shouldn't have a good-looking dog. I think that's the problem.
Nick: Do you think you should just get a dog that's not photogenic? Solve your problem. Anything else you want to say on this?
Leah: I think it's just sort of—our letter writer also mentions that people touch her dog.
Nick: Yes, that's also total boundary crossing, which is not okay.
Leah: And which I believe I brought up recently in a vent.
Leah: We just—other people's animal children are not public property. You can't just go up and pet them, you can't go up and touch them, you can't go up and film them.
Nick: Or I think you shouldn't touch anybody else's anything.
Nick: Their person, their property, their children, their pets. Like, none of these things, yeah. Without permission, I think that's also just like, that's a hard no for all of these categories.
Leah: Just ask!
Leah: "Hey, can I pet your dog?" Although I recently told somebody no, and the look they gave me? Whoa!
Nick: Well, did you just say it like that, or were you nice about it?
Leah: No, I was nice. And I even went as far as to explain why, and they still gave me a look like, "I can't believe this person is not allowing me to touch their pet." But I was polite about it, which honestly, I don't even feel like you have to be. You could be like, "No." But I actually gave her the reason, and she gave me a look like, "Mmm."
Nick: Well, we have our work cut out for us still, Leah.
Nick: So do you have questions for us? Let us know. You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com, or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.
Nick: And we're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.
Leah: Vent or Repent!
Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?
Leah: I want to say what an emotional roller coaster it was this week for me to decide which I was gonna do.
Nick: Oh, okay.
Leah: So first off, I was gonna repent.
Leah: But then I handled it with my therapist. And then ...
Nick: Oh, okay. What, so this is irrelevant now?
Leah: No, I feel like I've worked through it in a way where I don't want to bring it up again. And then ...
Nick: I feel like you should be using the vents with your therapist and then save the repents for us.
Leah: Well, it's in order of which it happened.
Nick: I see.
Leah: And then I had to go to the DMV yesterday, so I was sure I was gonna have a vent.
Nick: Oh, 100 percent.
Leah: And then they were lovely.
Nick: Oh, twist!
Leah: And I was, like, shocked. Very big twist. And then boom! Last night, somebody—some people came through with giving me a vent!
Nick: Okay! Eleventh hour!
Nick: So what is it?
Leah: So this has to do with the Zoom situation.
Leah: So a lot of time comics will do private shows on Zoom.
Leah: Like, we'll get hired, but I think people can relate to this in whatever online situation it is. And it's like you're doing a presentation, basically, and the only other people responding are other comics. So for all the other comics, I kept my camera on. I laughed. I paid attention. I applauded. Not that I'm obligated to do so, but ...
Nick: Professional courtesy.
Leah: Professional courtesy. When I went on, all the other comics turned off their—I saw one girl walk out of her screen to go do something. The other comics just flipped off their things. I was just like—I was closing it out. I was like the headliner, and I was like, I could have not even logged on until the end, you know?
Leah: But I wanted to be supportive. I thought we were all—and I know it's not their job duty or whatever, but it is sort of like a group thing. I just thought it was so rude, and it hurts your feelings.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, comedians are sensitive folks in general, and they need the validation from their peers.
Leah: We desperately need validation. And also it's just like, I'm essentially, in that situation, your coworker.
Nick: Yeah. Yeah, you're a colleague for the night, absolutely.
Leah: And you don't need to flip off your video camera as soon as you're done and be like, "Well, I did my part." When other people are helping you throughout your thing, you could then give it back. You know what I mean?
Nick: Yeah. I mean, that makes comedy a little unique in that you do need an audience because otherwise it's not standup.
Leah: Yeah. And I'm the only audience for a lot of those people because the other people are—you know what I mean? And you're like, "Oh, I thought this was a thing we were all doing together, but you can't be bothered." And I got real mad about it.
Nick: Because otherwise, like, why are we bothering doing the Zoom? I could have just recorded this on YouTube and sent you a link.
Leah: Exactly. We were all supposed to do that with each other. That's why I logged in early.
Nick: Right. Oh, that's rude. I'm sorry that happened.
Leah: Isn't it rude? And it makes you feel bad about yourself. You're like, "Oh, I guess I'm gonna have to eat a gallon of Halo Top. Good thing it only comes in pints. Maybe I did a strawberry and a peanut butter chocolate.
Nick: Yeah, that way you get actually multiple flavors.
Nick: Well, for me, I would also like to vent. So I was recently on a flight from San Francisco to New York, and I want to talk about this little sign on the aircraft that maybe you've seen: "As a courtesy to the next passenger, may we suggest that you use your towel to wipe off the wash basin?" Have you seen this little sign in the bathroom?
Nick: Yeah. So on this flight, that was not happening.
Nick: This would be an understatement. What was happening in this room? Why is there wet toilet paper on the wall?
Nick: Of the bathroom? How does that happen? Explain that to me. What science allows that to go up the wall above the height of the toilet paper dispenser? Hmm?
Leah: What is that?
Nick: Yeah. So it was all downhill from there with this lavatory. But, you know, in general, flying on an airplane requires you to buy into a certain fiction that you're alone, that people can't see your laptop screen, that the seat that I'm in for 10 hours is not full of Biscoff cookies in the cracks, and it's actually clean. Like, we have to just sort of like make ourself think that, "Oh, this is a clean, sterile environment" just to get through it. And so I think we just forget that, oh, it's actually like a communal space. And if we can all just pitch in just a little bit, just a little teeny tiny bit, we will all be better off, you know? It's just like, can we not do that, people? Can we not just all try and just, like, respect the space?
Leah: Toilet paper on the wall is a whole other level.
Nick: Yeah. I mean, I don't know how that happens. And it was real wet. So I think it started up even higher, and it was, like, sliding down, oozing down the wall slowly, like Slimer in Ghostbusters. So yeah, I mean, I think, you know, if we all just put in a little more effort, then we can make the world a better place, and then we can be that much closer to achieving world peace, and then we can actually end our show, Leah.
Nick: So, you know, it just starts with a single step. And speaking of steps, please, as a reminder, do not go into an airplane bathroom without shoes on. Thank you.
Nick: That happened on this flight.
Nick: Yeah. I mean ...
Leah: What's going on?
Nick: What is going on? I don't know.
Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?
Leah: I learned that pink grapefruit wasn't even around until about 1910, and that it was the product of a weekend getaway in Barbados.
Nick: [laughs] Exactly. And I learned that, in a supermarket, you're gonna open those cookies.
Leah: It's not often, but sometimes we are emotionally desperate.
Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.
Leah: Thank you, Nick.
Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.
Leah: He would if he could.
Nick: So for your homework this week, we'd really love it if you would support our show on Patreon.
Leah: It's fun in there.
Nick: Yeah, you're gonna get all sorts of bonus audio and video and other perks. So go to our website, click on "Monthly Membership," and see if it's something you'd like to do.
Leah: We would love your support!
Nick: We would. And we'll see you next time.
Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!
Leah: So Pasadena DMV. I'm gonna have to do a grateful shout out. Honestly, the most polite people I've ever met. You know you go through different places, every single person, "Hey, how are you? How's your day?"
Leah: Somebody was like, "Welcome to California!" Because I was getting my California state ID and license.
Leah: Loveliest experience I've ever had, not only just in a DMV, but I would say any kind of ...
Leah: Ever. Straight up, ever.
Nick: Well, that's very nice. And for me, I want to read this lovely cordials of kindness that we just got. And as a reminder, you can submit a cordials of kindness to us, CordialsofKindness.com. And it's quote, "Last weekend, I had four friends from out of town come to stay in my two-bedroom apartment. While we did have an amazing time, I wasn't looking forward to the amount of cleaning I had to do after they left. I had to go into the office on their last day, and when I arrived home, I found that they had cooked dinner, cleaned the bathrooms and kitchen, washed all of the towels and linens, and remade the beds. I was stunned by their kindness and consideration."
Leah: It's so sweet!
Nick: Isn't that nice? That's very nice.
Leah: Very nice.
Nick: We're glad that this is happening in the world.
Leah: Love it. Thank you for sharing that with us!
You can start with our first episode, our most recent episode, or jump in with one of these favorites in the middle:
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