Spotting Americans Abroad, Declining to Go Horseback Riding, Singing on Airplanes, and More

Nick: Do you lean on everything? Do you ask to ride other people's horses? Do you force people to sing on airplanes? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, I want to talk about not being spotted as an American when traveling abroad.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: And I think a lot of people want to try to not stick out as an American. I think a lot of people have this instinct.

Leah: It's so funny because I'm just waiting to have to guess something, so ...

Nick: Oh! [laughs]

Leah: Because it's an amuse bouche.

Nick: Oh, you know me so well. Yes, you do need to guess. And so what are some ways you can spot an American abroad? What are some of the ways we stick out?

Leah: I feel like you're making me say the things that I don't want to say.

Nick: Oh. Well, we're loud, right?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: We zigzag our knife and fork when we eat. That's very American.

Leah: I would not notice that.

Nick: Oh, I notice that. We tend to want everything to have ice in it.

Leah: Which is a fabulous quality.

Nick: Yeah, I will actually go to the mat on that. I think beverages do tend to taste better when they're colder. And I think the rest of the world could get on board with concepts like iced coffee or sodas that are colder. I believe the American way on that one is actually, I think, superior. Like, there's a lot of things that they do well elsewhere in the world, but I think for this, I gotta go Team America on that.

Leah: I love ice!

Nick: But one of the things that I use to spot Americans, which is very effective, and it's something that actually is so effective that the CIA actually has it as one of the things that they teach agents about is the American lean.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: Do you know about this?

Leah: No.

Nick: So there is a thing where Americans in particular, we love to lean on stuff. We like to lean on walls, we like to lean on counters, we like to lean on railings. We like to lean.

Leah: Really?

Nick: Yes, it's really true. And I do it. I'm sure you do it. We have a real hard time just standing on two legs with our weight evenly on both feet. Even when we're standing online, we will probably have, like, one foot ahead of the other, or we'll have all of our weight on one leg.

Leah: Hmm. Now I'm gonna start looking.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, once you know this, you're gonna start looking and be like, "Oh my gosh, Americans lean on everything." Yeah. Now not that other people don't lean. Not that Canadians don't lean. Not that Europeans don't lean. But as a group, Americans, we do tend to be leaners at a percentage that is so much higher than the rest of the world. And it does make us stick out. And it is one of the ways that Europeans do spot us. They just know, oh, they're clearly American.

Leah: "Oh, look at the leaner."

Nick: Because that body language is so distinct.

Leah: Well, I'm gonna have toónow I'm gonna have to keep my eyes peeled when we're in a group of non-Americans.

Nick: Yes, for sure. And just note yourself whenever you're waiting somewhere. Are you leaning against something?

Leah: Well, I actuallyómaybe this is a little extra knowledge for our listeners that maybe they didn't want to have, and I know that you for sure didn't want to have this.

Nick: Oh, then I can't wait to hear it. It's not too late to turn back, Leah.

Leah: No, it'sóI'm in it.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I favored one side so hardóapparently, also sitting, standing. The person guessed it was also when I was standing on stage, that I pulled my whole body out of alignment.

Nick: Oh, golly! Okay, that'sóthat's pretty serious.

Leah: Yeah. And so I went to a sports therapist for a long time, so I have actively worked on standing straight still and not leaning to one side or the other.

Nick: Okay. Well, so maybe I won't be able to spot you abroad as an American.

Leah: [laughs] But, I mean, talk about leaning.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a Leaning Tower of Pisa over there. So I think a question, though, is why do we do this? Like, where do we think this comes from? And so obviously there's, like, no science on this, but I have some theories, and I think one of them is just that Americans, we value sort of casualness in general as a baseline.

Leah: That's what I was gonna say. We're casual.

Nick: You know, casual Fridays. We are a first name culture. We like relaxed customer service experiences. Like, compared to other cultures in the world, we are definitely less formal. And so I think maybe this sort of posture thing, you know, this little slouchy thing, maybe that's where this comes from. Another thought I had is that in American culture, like, when you think about movies or TV, we see a lot of leaning against things. And I don't know if that's, like, art imitating life or life imitating art, but if you think of, like, James Dean.

Leah: I literally was thinking James Dean.

Nick: Right? I mean, I think he's the ultimate in leaning.

Leah: Yeah, he's ...

Nick: I don't know if there's a photo of him not leaning on something.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, I don't know if he's capable of just, like, standing next to a car, next to a wall.

Leah: Why would you when you can lean on it?

Nick: Yeah. I mean, if you're James Dean. But I do wonder, do we do it because we see those images, or do we see those images because we do it? But then I was thinking, like, American culture is so pervasive around the world, like, everybody sees our movies and our television, and yet this detail isn't something that other people are doing to the same extent. So I don't know about this theory.

Leah: Another story that is off topic, but still related, Nick. I'm doing two in the same segment. Wow!

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: When I first met Dustin, first time I saw him, he was leaning on a wall.

Nick: And the fact that you remember that so clearly.

Leah: Oh I do, because it was aóhe was leaning back and he had one leg up. And the silhouette was very Hollywood cowboy.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it cut such a silhouette that that was the first time I ever met him. That was the first time I ever saw him. And I was like, "This is my man. I love that lean."

Nick: Yeah. No, I get it. I totally get it.

Leah: But you're right. It's so American. And we areówe are casual people.

Nick: Yeah, we are casual. And another theory is that sometimes we might have a feeling of entitlement, like we own the space. And I wonder, like, when we're leaning on something we're like, "This railing is mine. This counter is mine. This wall is mine." I wonder if we're just sort of subconsciously owning the space.

Leah: I was thinking that I wonder if it's linked to our idea of individualism.

Nick: I think it could be that. Also, I feel like there is an American confidence. And I think it's also sort of related to that. It's sort of like, yes, I belong in this place. I belong here. And so maybe there's a little of that flavor?

Leah: Fun fact. That's one of my daily mantras.

Nick: "I belong here?" [laughs] All right. I mean, whatever gets you through. And then maybe the most reasonable explanation is that I think, for whatever reason, we just feel awkward just standing. Like, it's a little awkward just, like, just to be standing up straight.

Leah: And doing nothing. You're just standing.

Nick: So maybe that's just too awkward for us. And so by leaning against something, it's something to do.

Leah: It's an activity.

Nick: Yeah. But also, it is more comfortable, isn't it? I feel like it's a little more comfortable to lean on something.

Leah: Well, it's definitely more comfortable, but then eventually your hip will move, and then your pelvis will be out of alignment, and then ...

Nick: Yeah. Well, that's a tomorrow problem. Americans are all about today.

Leah: And then you're gonna have to spend the rest of your life standing very straight.

Nick: So that's the American lean. So I think it's very interesting. I think now that you know it, you will now not be able to unsee it out in the world. So ...

Leah: I'm looking forward toóit's much like the blackened candlewicks.

Nick: It is absolutely that. Yes. You cannot unlearn this. This is Gwyneth Paltrow, Sliding Doors. Your life will forever be bifurcated by this moment.

Leah: Ugh! I can't wait to just go look at people. "Leaner. Leaner. Leaner."

Nick: You're welcome.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: Thank you.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: Deep and sneaky!

Nick: So for today's question of etiquette, I want to talk about the official rules for how to tell someone to turn around to see something.

Leah: I'm so glad we're doing this, because some people really seem to have missed the memo.

Nick: Yeah. No, we do need to establish some official rules here, because yeah, people don't seem to know the official rules.

Leah: It came up a few episodes ago, and I forget what it came up in. What ...

Nick: Yes, it was relatively recently, and I think I said, like, "Oh, let's put a pin in that."

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so here we are. But yeah, I don't remember what the context was, but it's important.

Leah: It is important, because some people, you go, "Don't look now, but ..." and then they just turn around like an owl with a full neck turn, and you're like, "What? Howówhat happened to 'Don't look now?'"

Nick: Yeah. So all right, these are gonna be the official rules for how this should go down.

Leah: Yeah. Get out a quill and a wax seal, Nick.

Nick: Okay. I mean, I'm on board with that.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I think we have two parties here: We have the person giving the alert and the person receiving the alert.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And I think both of them have some responsibilities.

Leah: Yes, and I think usually who's dropping the ball is the receiver of the alert.

Nick: Totally. A hundred percent. But I think there are things that the giver can do that can help. And so the first thing is just we gotta be discreet. We gotta, like, not have a loud voice. So just make sure, like, we have our low inside voices for this.

Leah: Yes. And I think you can do a body signal where you're like, "I'm telling you something now that's not loud." So you kind of do a little I'm going in. I'm dropping my voice.

Nick: Yes. Because I think it's important to prime the pump. I think we need to lay the groundwork, and we need to just sort of prep them for what's about to happen. So I like a "Don't look now. I'll tell you when you can look."

Leah: Oh, that's good. That's good.

Nick: I feel like you need to say that. "Don't look now. I'll tell you when you can look." And I think you do need to indicate what you're about to see. I don't think we want to have them turn around and be surprised. So, like, if there's a celebrity, I think you need to say who it is. How do you feel about that?

Leah: Yeah, I actually haven't been in a situation where I haven't told people what they're about to see.

Nick: Because I think a lot of people will be like, "Turn around. Behind you at three o'clock." And, like, there's no detail about what you're about to experience.

Leah: Okay. Yeah, give a little detail so people know what they're looking for.

Nick: Right.

Leah: Because when they don't know when they're looking for, that's when they get searching eyes.

Nick: Also that. Right. Yeah. Okay, well, we'll get to that when we get to the receiver. But as the giver, I think we just want to preload the information. And I guess we also need to indicate where to look, or I guess what shoulder. Like, what directions are we giving?

Leah: Is this a person who's like a on-the-clock person, like three o'clock? Or is this a left or right person?

Nick: Clock is tricky because very often this is a horizontal plane, right? And so is the clock on the ground?

Leah: Yes, but if I was, like, "On your six," you would know exactly what that was.

Nick: I would, but I know how to tell time.

Leah: Well also, anybody who's watched a movie that has a military thing in it should know where that is.

Nick: Oh, it's at your 18:00?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Is that wheat you mean? [laughs]

Leah: On your six. I mean ...

Nick: I feel like "on your six," that requires the giver to translate the clock into your direction, which if you could pull that off, if you can turn, you know, five o'clock into eleven o'clock.

Leah: No, you have to translate it into their direction. There's no way you could give it from your direction, because that would make no sense to them.

Nick: That would be very difficult. Right. I like, "Look over your left shoulder." I feel like a shoulder direction is maybe better.

Leah: Okay. I like a over the shoulder, a left shoulder or a right shoulder. I do like that.

Nick: But yeah, the seven o'clock thing? Yeah. And then I think a little detail, which is like "Over your left shoulder, Miss Piggy is wearing a black hat."

Leah: Yeah. I was thinking, what color is this person wearing?

Nick: Some detail. Or, like, "Miss Piggy is at the booth behind you next to the plant." Like, I think there needs to be some way where once you turn, you have a little guidance about where you're supposed to be looking specifically.

Leah: Yes. So you're cutting down the time they have to be searching.

Nick: Bingo. Right. So let's talk about the receiver.

Leah: Receiver. First rule, when the person says "Don't look now," control yourself.

Nick: I wrote, "Don't look now is sacred."

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Sacred. Yeah, you cannot break that trust.

Leah: I love that. It is! What are people doing? I think they just get overwhelmed.

Nick: And so then you have permission to look. "Okay, you can look." And so now we need to be real slick about it. We gottaówe gotta move in a normal way.

Leah: This is me but, like, I'll oftenóif there's a bathroom back there, I'll look as if I'm looking for the bathroom.

Nick: Or the dÈcor, or where is our waiter? Or, oh, what do I see in the distance?

Leah: Yeah. Like, I'll keep looking previous and post seeing what I'm supposed to be seeing.

Nick: Ah, true. Yes, you can't just, like, hone in, see the thing and whip right back around.

Leah: Yeah. No, it's gotta be a continueóit's in the middle of something. That way it wasn't the thing.

Nick: Right. I guess you have to think of it like prison searchlights kind of moving around the yard. Is that the visual?

Leah: Yes, that's a nice visual.

Nick: Yeah. So yeah, even when you spot the prisoner, you gotta pretend like you didn't.

Leah: I also think if it's like an awkward place to look, you can get up and go to the bathroom.

Nick: Yes. Or a dropped napkin. Or let me readjust the coat on my chair.

Leah: Yeah. Put it in an activity.

Nick: Yeah, an activity. You want plausible deniability. That's really what it comes down to.

Leah: Create a whole story around it. A whole story. Oh, napkin!

Nick: But going to the bathroom, thatóI mean, that's a classic. That'sóand that's actually very easy. Totally plausible.

Leah: And then you also get to go to the bathroom. How fun!

Nick: It's a win-win.

Leah: Do another hand wash. Check your teeth. I mean ...

Nick: And I think you get one look, you get one pass. I don't think we're allowed to do any double takes.

Leah: No, one pass. So make sure your eyes are ready.

Nick: Which is why you want to wait 'til you have the go signal, so that you can prepare yourself. This is why we actually want to not rush into this.

Leah: And this is for notóI think you use the example of a celebrity, but this could be any kind of a thing our friend wants us to see that is somehow sticking out to them.

Nick: Like, look at the book that person's reading on the subway.

Leah: Yes. Anything.

Nick: Yeah, anything. Anything where you don't want to be caught looking.

Leah: You don't want to be caught looking. You don't want to make the person feel any type of way, whatever.

Nick: And then I guess the question is okay, I've looked, I've seen. And now I need to use the same casualness, the same attitude as I turn back to who I'm with.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: The return needs to be as slick as the outbound.

Leah: Yep. It's a part of a calm movement.

Nick: Yes. Yes. Lugubrious. And so then I'm back with you, and so I guess the question is we obviously want to talk about it. And so what are the rules there? Because we don't want to draw attention to ourselves in that moment.

Leah: Yeah, Just keep your voiceóand a whisper is loud, so just drop it down.

Nick: And I think as the original giver, I think it's important as we're discussing the thing for me not to be looking at it at this point.

Leah: Yes, you can't look. You can't look at it either.

Nick: Right. Yeah, I think we both have to, like, not see it as we discuss it.

Leah: Because I've definitely made eye contact as the original giver after the looker looked.

Nick: Right. And if you get caught doing that, that's just as bad.

Leah: And then you justónow you're in. Now you're having a relationship with that person.

Nick: Right. Because yeah, then that person notices, like, oh, you saw the friend turn around, turning back to you. Now you're looking. Like, oh, now I know what's happening.

Leah: I can reallyóI don't know if this has happened or if it just feels like something I would do. I can then imagine being like, "I love your shirt!" Just so they know it was a compliment.

Nick: Yes, I guess if it's that.

Leah: "Great shirt!"

Nick: Or, like, "I loved you in that movie."

Leah: Well, we all know I tried to do that once and it was crash and burn, so ...

Nick: Yes. Just search our archives for Willem Dafoe, everybody.

Leah: Oh, just saying it, I get anxious.

Nick: You like his movies. What can you say?

Leah: I mean, the man is gifted.

Nick: So I think those are the rules. I think that is how this should go down. I don't think we want to deviate from this. I think this is very comprehensive.

Leah: Sign, sealed and stamped. Send it out to your friends.

Nick: We're all in it together.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "Am I being overly sensitive? You know how there's that rule where if you don't know someone is pregnant, you don't ask if they are? That applies to social media too, right? On Halloween, I posted a picture of my husband and I in our costumes. I dressed up like a gumball machine, and he, who doesn't like to dress up, carried around a quarter and said he was a kid in a candy store for the evening. I had two people comment on the photo that they thought it was a pregnancy announcement. Isn't that rude? Like, I feel like I was just called fat. Also, how gross is it to assume a quarter and a gumball machine are some kind of euphemism for making a baby? Maybe I'm too naÔvÈ. Here's the photo and caption I posted. What do you think?"

Leah: I saw nothing pregnant about this photo.

Nick: So describe the photo for our listeners.

Leah: Okay, so it's a very festive photo.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: Not that this matters, but they're in front of a Halloween sign.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: So we know exactly where we are and what we're doing.

Nick: Oh, that's a good point. Yes, it is clearly a Halloween photo. But in case you weren't sure, there is a banner behind them with a pumpkin that also says ...

Leah: Halloween!

Nick: In orange and black lettering. So clearly Halloween. Okay, good.

Leah: And then our lovely letter writer hasóI loveótwo braids. Not important to theóbut I love the look. And a white t-shirt that has cotton balls glued or sewn on it to look like lots of gumballs.

Nick: Multicolor pom poms.

Leah: Yes, multicolored pom poms. And then a little sign that says "25 cents" with, like, where you would put the money in drawn on it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then her lovely beau is wearing a plaid shirt and carrying a quarter.

Nick: Yeah. And the caption for this photo is, "Hope everyone had a sweet Halloween." Ghost emoji. Very nice.

Leah: And that's it. That is it.

Nick: Yeah. There is absolutely nothing about this that reads pregnancy. Like, that's a real big leap here.

Leah: And I mean, there's nothing about the ensemble that looks pregnant.

Nick: And the idea of a gumball machine and a kid in aónone of that's hitting my radar.

Leah: It didn't hit my radar, either. I mean, the peopleóit's such a far jump to get that euphemism.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's just like, oh, you guys are in love. He feels so lucky. He's a kid in a candy store. That's as far as I need to go with that.

Leah: Yeah. I would get, like, "Yo, you're a gumball machine, and he's gonna get a gumball. You're a couple."

Nick: Yeah. I guess people just like to read into couples' costumes. I think that's, like, the charitable explanation.

Leah: It blows my mind that two people got there. I justówhat?

Nick: Two? Well, I think that's why our letter-writer wrote, because it's like, two people wrote in, so clearly I'm missing something.

Leah: I do not see it.

Nick: Yeah, I don't see it either. So yeah, this is not a you problem. This is a them problem. Like, I don't think there's anything we can do about this.

Leah: We all see the world through our own lenses, and I think these people are having baby lenses.

Nick: Yeah, I guess. Yeah. But I think just as a reminder, yes, there is the rule that you do not ask if someone is pregnant.

Leah: Also, the caption is like, "Hope you had a good Halloween" with a ghost. There's nothing that's, like ...

Nick: Yeah. There wasn't, like, a little baby emoji.

Leah: Yeah. There wasn't, like, a "Surprise! Guess what this means. Baby!"

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's not even a leap. It's just there is noóthere is no A to B here.

Leah: Well, we hit aówe went to a lily pad, and then we leapt to another lily pad, and then we went to another one, and then we ended up somewhere where it just was not connected to the beginning.

Nick: Yeah. So yeah, sorry. But great costume. Adorable!

Leah: Great costume, so fun!

Nick: And lovely photo. Yeah.

Leah: It's a great couple costume. You both look lovely.

Nick: And, you know, I've actually never had a gumball.

Leah: What's so funny is that I'm not shocked. At this point, I'm not shocked.

Nick: And I guess I'm not entirely sure what it is. I assume there's gum in it. Like, I know about that. And then, like, it's a candy shell.

Leah: It's got a candy shell.

Nick: And so is the idea that you, like, chew the canóI can't believe I'm even asking, like, so I will move on. I'll google. I'll google a gumball.

Leah: No, no. You chew through the candy shell. And they're bright colors, so your mouth is gonna turn that color. So that's a part of the fun.

Nick: Oh, that's part of the fun that there's just dye that dyes my tongue. Okay.

Leah: Yes. Not even just your tongue, Nick. Probably around your lips, the whole thing. It's gonna be fantastic.

Nick: But I'm chewing through sugar and gum at the same time.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. So I'm chewing gum. There's also some candy in there, so it's, like, crunchy at the beginning, and then eventually it just becomes gum, I guess.

Leah: Yeah, it'll just dissolve, and you'll swallow that and then you'll just keep going with the gum for about 90 seconds, and then the gum gets so hard that you have to spit it out.

Nick: Okay. And so this is enjoyable for people who want this.

Leah: Have you neveróhave you ever had a lollipop with gum in it?

Nick: I have had a Tootsie Roll. Oh, that's Tootsie Roll in the middle, though. I have not. What? No.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: [laughs] Because that's the same thing. It's just on a stick.

Leah: Yeah, but there's moreóyou're not gonna bite right into it. That one you're gonna lick for a while.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: Just as a little side FYI, I've been on a pretty big lollipop kick recently. Just so you know.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Just so our listeners know, I'móit's a thing I'm going through, and usually it would stir nothing within me, but now when I see those little mugs.

Nick: Are you going to a lot of regional banks?

Leah: That's what I'm saying.

Nick: Are you at the credit union every day?

Leah: Put me in a bank where there's aóI'm going over there, and I'm finding the root beer or the cotton candy or the green apple or the butterscotch, and I'm grabbing it.

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "My family owns horses and enjoys riding. People often ask us if we can take them for a trail ride. Sometimes we are completely on board with this. We're happy to take friends and extended family that we trust and enjoy spending time with. However, we're sometimes asked by people we don't feel comfortable taking. This varies from family we haven't spoken with in a decadeóthe audacity!óto neighbors we don't especially trust or want to pursue a deeper connection with. While we trust our horses for most situations, there are inherent risks in the activity. Accidents can happen and people can get hurt. This could lead to severe financial and legal impositions for us. Additionally, we don't know the experience level of many riders. The level of work that goes into helping riders can drastically change according to their ability. We struggle to find time to go riding anyway, so committing that kind of time and energy for acquaintances can get frustrating, especially because they most often ask for us to take them so that they can avoid paying the fees at professional riding stables.

Nick: "When people ask to go, I often fib about busy schedules or offer vague promises for future rides. So my question for you: What is a simple, firm and polite answer when we want to say no to people? But wait, there's more. I understand the other side of the question. There have been times I've wanted to join in on an activity with others that would put them in a similarly awkward position. For example, I don't have a hot air balloon, but I might enjoy going out with people on theirs. What is a polite way to ask people if you can partake in one of their pastimes that doesn't put them in a bind or uncomfortable position?"

Leah: Can we hit these as two separate ones?

Nick: Sure. Although I want to know about, like, all these people who have extra hot air balloons. Who are these people?

Leah: Well, IóNick does want to know, because he keeps wanting us to do hot air balloons as a deep dive and I keep going, "No!"

Nick: Listeners, are you not interested about hot air balloon etiquette?

Leah: Well, everybody's gonna say yes at this point.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, you brought it up, Leah. You brought this upon yourself.

Leah: I know, but I wanted you to have a fairóI wanted it to be fair to you, Nick. And I'm sure people will say, "I'm interested." And then I also want them to know that I ixnayed it for a long time when we bring it up and we go "Oh, you stand in the basket."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. I mean, what is there to say? It's true. Yeah, don't burn your hair.

Leah: Don't go into the hot area and let the person do their job.

Nick: Yeah. Stay out of the way.

Leah: Don't hang off the side.

Nick: Okay, that's the deep dive. All right, we're done.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So for this, what do we want to do? I guess, how do we decline politely?

Leah: So for the top one, I startedówhere I started is not where I ended up. So let me just say I started with someóa little explaining, like maybe we explained to them the risks, and then I realized everybody's gonna come up with a reason.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Of why they'll do this. "Oh, we'll do a thing." And then I think it just has to be a, "We've stopped taking people out on rides because it's sort of overwhelming for us." Boom.

Nick: Yeah. When you're explaining, you're losing. Yeah.

Leah: Losing. Because they're gonna come up with a way around it.

Nick: Yeah. And I think you can just blame the horses.

Leah: What does that sound like?

Nick: Um ...

Leah: Neigh. Neigh.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, "Our horses say neigh. You want to go? They say neigh." No, you could just say, like, "Oh, our horses are on a schedule." Or, "Our horses are on a routine so we don't take them out with other riders. Hope you understand."

Leah: I mean, that sounds nice. I don't know if that makes sense to a horse person, but I think that sounds really nice.

Nick: Or I like a good vague, "Oh, unfortunately won't be possible."

Leah: Yeah. I think that one's really hard for a lot of people.

Nick: Well, practice makes perfect, though.

Leah: Okay. We've given threeówe actually give four choices, because I think that "Our horses say neigh" is actually pretty good. Because if somebody said that to me, I'd be likeóI'd laugh, and then I go, "Okay."

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, no, I like it. I think it's not bad. But I think we want to put the responsibility on the horses, that the horses don't want it. It's not good for the horses. And so, "So sorry. The horses say neigh." Because, like, who can argue with a horse?

Leah: It's a great point, Nick. Who can argue with a horse?

Nick: Because, like, if you're like, "Oh, there's liability." And like, "Oh, it's responsibility." Like, I could say, "Oh, I have insurance."

Leah: Yeah. Or they could be like, "You know what? I'll sign a thing."

Nick: Right.

Leah: They're gonna say all that stuff. So it just has to be a no.

Nick: Yeah. "The horse says neigh." You can't challenge that.

Leah: I'm honestly also fine with, "We've stopped taking people on rides."

Nick: Yes. Now I think one tricky thing is do the people you do want to takeóbecause there are those peopleódo they know the people who you don't want to take?

Leah: Oh, yes.

Nick: If those circles don't overlap, then you're golden. It's fine.

Leah: Because I initially thought, well, those people won't see those people, but they could tell those people.

Nick: Right. Or they see it on social media or they talk about it. Right. So we do need to have maybe a better explanation for why you can't go.

Leah: No, because I think once you make it personal, that person's gonna try to get their way out of it.

Nick: Yeah. Then I think you have to go back to just something vague like, "Oh, unfortunately now's not a good time."

Leah: And I mean, they could be like, "Well, we heard that Sally went." And you could say, "Oh, well, Sally was here when I was already going out." I mean, you could make it more specific to the other person, or you could just be like, not take anybody and then make it easy.

Nick: Yeah. Although I do want to take some people that we like.

Leah: I mean, the fact is is that it's your prerogative. And ideally, that other person won't say, "Well, I saw you took Sally."

Nick: What's interesting is, like, if this was a house and people are like, "Oh, I want to be a house guest for the weekend," like, it would be a lot easier to decline certain people from your house, right? Like, oh, I don't want you in my house for the weekend, but I do want these other people. And somehow I think it would be easier for us to, like, process that and respond to that. So maybe that's the same spirit in which we approach this.

Leah: Well, I think our letter-writer should have every confidence and comfortability in saying no, because ...

Nick: Yes. We don't live in a world in which you have to take anybody who asks out for a ride.

Leah: How about we say we've started taking less people out because it's become overwhelming for us.

Nick: Okay, I like that. So it's not that we don't take anybody out.

Leah: We've taken less.

Nick: Less.

Leah: And the unspoken there is we've hit our quota and you're not in the less.

Nick: And you could even say, like, but if there's an opportunity to take you out, we'll let you know.

Leah: Oh, this is nice.

Nick: And that opportunity will never come.

Leah: It's never coming.

Nick: But if it were to come, I do promise to let you know.

Leah: If that opportunity comes around the track, we will let you know.

Nick: Okay. Oh, I thinkóI think this is it. I think this is it. Yes.

Leah: So you say no with a horse pun in it.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: Boom.

Nick: So now how about the other question? We want to go on a hot air balloon.

Leah: So I think hot air balloon situation, I would A) I know this feeling a lot where I sometimes want to ask people something, but I want them to know it's really fine if this doesn't work for you.

Nick: Yeah, you can totally say no. And I really do mean that.

Leah: So I think I've said that before, which is what I was going to say, but then as you were reading it out loud, Nick, I was thinking, could I also say to my friend, "Do you ever take people out in your hot air balloon, like friends?"

Nick: Okay. Interesting.

Leah: So then I'm giving them a chance to say no now without having to make it feel weird in between us in any way.

Nick: Yes, we do need to give them an out. Very important that you ask it in a way that gives them a very easy out. Yes.

Leah: So you're giving them a real easy out if you make it general first.

Nick: But a lot of these hobbies are expensive, and so I do feel like if I'm asking to go on your hot air balloon, I would want you to know, like, oh, I'm prepared to pay for itóif I'm prepared to pay for it. So I'd want to somehow in my ask be like, "Hey, let me know if you're ever allowed to bring a guest, and if so, how I can buy a ticket to your hot air balloon?"

Leah: I think you could also say, "Would you ever be up for a trade? I'll take you on a horse ride, you take me in your hot air balloon."

Nick: Assuming you have an opportunity for a trade and assuming these things are equivalent in price and value. But yes, I think the idea, like, oh, I don't want this thing for free from you. Although, is that weird if you're with a friend and like, oh, I want to pay you for this thing? This gets a little tricky.

Leah: I think you could sayóI like the idea of just making it, "Do you ever take friends up with you?"

Nick: "Do you ever take friends up with you?" And it's like, not for free. But they can't say that.

Leah: They could say that.

Nick: They could. You could say that. But it's like, oh, I like to take people up but, like, you know, it's kind of expensive.

Leah: Or they could be like, "But I just do it as a job."

Nick: But what if they do like taking friends up, but as long as the friends, like, chip in for gas or propane or what powers a hot air balloon?

Leah: They could always say, "I love to take people, but I do ask they chip in for fire."

Nick: Okay. Oh, that actually sounds nice and reasonable.

Leah: Because then otherwise it just gets, you know, too expensive for me.

Nick: I think this comes up with a lot of people who have, like, planes. I mean, maybe hot air balloons falls into this category. But, like, people who have a Cessna and be like, "Oh, I would love to go up sometime. But, like, gas, tie-down fees, all thisólike, this really, like, adds up. So, like, I would love to take you out for a ride but, like, you know, gas is gonna be a couple hundred bucks here."

Leah: "Can I ever go in your dirigible? I'd be more than happy to pay."

Nick: "I have some hydrogen."

Leah: [laughs] Yes. I will bring my own hydrogen.

Nick: Actually, I would really love to go on a zeppelin.

Leah: Yeah, I wouldóif Ióout of those three things, I think I wouldóthat would be the most fun.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I mean, unless I needed to get somewhere with dogs, and then somebody was like, "Let me use youróyou can use my private jet." I would sob and be like, "You mean I don't have to drive across America again?" But I mean, just for, like, a day trip?

Nick: Yes. I think we need more airships.

Leah: I would say we're in the same basket.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So you out there, do you have any questions for us that Leah can make some bad puns about? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent?

Leah: Nick, I'm gonna vent.

Nick: Okay. What has happened?

Leah: Well, I want you to know I wanted to let this go.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. Not very hard.

Leah: No, I did hard. And then I had another vent. And then I said to myselfótoday before we started taping, I said, "Be honest, Leah. Which one bothered you more?" And it was the one I'm trying to let go.

Nick: Uh-huh?

Leah: So here's what happened. I'm at the airport. Already you know it's a mess.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I understand people are in bad places in airports, you know? It's just stressful.

Nick: We're not at our best. Yeah.

Leah: And I will say I was not at my best. I was flying to an emergency situation.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So I'm in line at a coffee shop. The lady in front of me is angry, and she's, like, talking negatively to the selection of muffins.

Nick: Okay. None of them please her.

Leah: She's not in a good mood.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I knew this from the announcement, but she ended up beingóthere was a plane that got rerouted and they had to switch out planes. She was on this plane.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And seemingly from what she was saying to the barista, it wasn't like she was going somewhereóit just was a delay. She was irritated because she was delayed. It wasn't something larger than that. And she referred to it as, like, the worst day of her life.

Nick: I mean, if that's the worst day of your life, your life is pretty good.

Leah: I know. And Ióso I tried to let it go because I was like, look, you don't know. You know what I mean?

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And just because you want to be like, "Let me tell you about what's going on in my day, and we can compare it." And then I was like, don't even think like that. That's not how the world works, and have compassion for people.

Nick: Okay, Very nice.

Leah: So that's why I was gonna let it go. And then I'll tell you what bothered me.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: The barista, who's just doing their job and is stuck there all day dealing with this stuff, the person was like, "Well, I hope your day gets better." Or, like, some kind of thing like that. Like, just a polite thing, because this person has just been, like, grumbling at them. And then she came back at them so hard.

Nick: What did she say?

Leah: I don't remember the exact words. I remember the feeling, because I've been trying to let this go for two weeks.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Where she basically was like, you knowólike, you know, "Unless you can fix the world for me, I'm not gonna be in a good mood!" That was the ...

Nick: [laughs] Okay.

Leah: And it was like, this person is just doing their job, and they've been trying to be polite. And then you're grumbling at them. Like, you look like a total jerk. Like, don't do that to people.

Nick: Yeah. No, that's pretty rude. Yeah. Because you're just bringing down the mood for everybody.

Leah: We're all sorry you've been delayed. And you could even complain about it as longóyou're making it the fault of the barista.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I'm sure he's like, "Well, I don't fly the plane. In fact, I have nothing to do with the airlines, and I'm not even in customer service. I'm literally just making your double latte."

Nick: Wow!

Leah: I was in the middle of something, and I never would take it out on a random person.

Nick: That's not great.

Leah: And I'm just still irritated at her. I just think she's so rude.

Nick: Well, speaking of airports, I would also like to vent. And so I was recently in Las Vegas, and I was flying there. And so we're just about to land, and one of the flight attendants comes on the PA system and says, like, "We have a birthday!" And it was the birthday of another flight attendant. And the flight attendant making the announcement was like, "Oh, don't be shy. Oh, that's her hiding in the galley. Oh, don't be shy. Come out, come out!" And the other flight attendant who was having a birthday clearly did not want this attention. Like, that was real obvious. But then the flight attendant over the PA was like, "Let's all sing Happy Birthday to her." And what she wanted is for every passenger on this airplane to sing Happy Birthday. And it was so awkward. It was so awkward, because she started singing Happy Birthday through the PA, and then no one was really doing it because it's like, we don't want to do this. And she's like, "Come on, everybody! Come on, let's sing!" And so she was likeóas she's singing, she's trying to get people to sing. And then it just made it more awkward. And then some people were singing, and then everybody's kind of looking around at each other, like, "Should we sing?" And then the flight attendant mercifully cut it off, basically went right to the last stanza and was just like, "Happy birthday to you." And then, like, it was over. It was the most painful four minutes of my life. I've never experienced something more cringeworthy on an airplane. And this was not Southwest, because I would expect this from Southwest.

Leah: Oh!

Nick: I would. You know, well, they're always doing standup or comedy routine or, you know, they'reóthey're doingóthey do more whimsy on the PA on Southwest. I think we can all acknowledge that, right?

Leah: I haveóI've only flown Southwest once, and I was so overtaken by a man's elbow that I don't evenóI blacked out.

Nick: Okay. Well, I think anybody who flies Southwest regularly knows there's a lot more "fun," quote-unquote, that happens with announcements and things like that on a Southwest flight versus Delta. Delta is not known for singing Happy Birthday, as far as I know. So yeah, it was real awkward, because it was like, what is my obligation as a passenger here? Should I sing Happy Birthday? Should I mutter it? Should I pretend like I'mólike, what isóit was like I didn't know the etiquette. What is the etiquette here? Should I have sang, Leah?

Leah: You know I would sing, and I would sing loud and I would clap so that person felt the love coming from me.

Nick: But that person didn't want the love.

Leah: Yeah, but we've already started.

Nick: We already started. Right. But then you'd be the only person doing it.

Leah: No, I wouldn't. Once one person does it, other people would do it.

Nick: Oh, you think?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: I mean, there were a couple pockets on the airplane who I think were maybe participating. It was just really uncomfortable for everybody.

Leah: I think if I was there, I could have made it fun, Nick.

Nick: I believe that. I believe that. I think it just combines all the things I really don't like.

Leah: It really is a lot of your things.

Nick: Yeah. No, singing in public, engaging with strangers on an airplane, clapping on an airplane.

Leah: It sort of feels like very loud talking on an elevator.

Nick: Also that. Yeah. No, it's just everything I don't care for. Putting people on the spot, I think that's rude. Putting us as passengers on the spot, putting the birthday person on the spot. Don't love that. Yeah. So that's my vent.

Leah: [laughs] Whoever that was, happy birthday.

Nick: Yeah, happy birthday. Sorry I didn't sing, but hopefully you got some extra Biscoff cookies on the plane. [laughs]

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that Americans are leaners.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: To the point where people can be like, "Look for the leaners."

Nick: It's true. Yeah. You can spot us a mile away. And I learned that we both enjoy floating ships.

Leah: [laughs] I think my love came originally from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Nick: Oh, that's a good one.

Leah: Where do you think yours came from?

Nick: I do like leisurely travel, and I feel like ...

Leah: Oh, it's leisurely.

Nick: ... this is not the fastest way to get anywhere, but there's something kind of fun about that.

Leah: One of my favorite quotes in high schoolóyou know, in high school and you just love dropping quotes on people. Did you go through that?

Nick: Oh, I still go through that.

Leah: [laughs] WasóI don't even remember who said this quote, because I never would have guessed that we were gonna talk about dirigibles today so I did not look it up in advance. But the quote was, "Self-inflated dirigibles cast large shadows."

Nick: Okay. Interesting quote. That's some famous quote.

Leah: And I just remember just like that was the thing that I just liked to drop on people.

Nick: It feels like a good bumper sticker.

Leah: [laughs] It wasn't a bumper sticker. I mean, can you imagine?

Nick: "My other car is the Goodyear blimp."

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And then this was on the other side.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, we want you to tell two friends about our show. That's it. Just two people who don't listen to our show, tell them about us.

Leah: You know who's really good at this is my mom.

Nick: Yeah, just send her to the grocery store.

Leah: She actually carries our card.

Nick: Yes. Fun fact, I actually made up Were You Raised By Wolves? business cards specifically for Leah's mom to hand out to strangers.

Leah: And we'll be likeówe'll be, like, in an office, like, waiting for something. And she'll be like, "Do you have a card on you? Let's just pass it."

Nick: And I've actually reprinted them, like, three times now. I think she's gone through, like, 300.

Leah: Yeah, she'sóóI mean, she's papering Maine!

Nick: [laughs] Yes. No, it's wonderful. No, I'll take it. Yeah, I guess, listeners, if you want some business cards from us, I'll send them to you. Just, you know, write me. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: So I've been in Maine for a couple of months, and I've been doing a lot of hiking. And so foróand I'm sure this happens in a lot of states, but in Maine, a lot of people have either gifted their land or they preserve their land. So different people do it in different ways, but many people have preserved their lands and then opened it up for anybody to go hiking on. And it is the most glorious gift, and I've been on so many amazing trails. And the woods are so amazing, so I just want to give a huge cordials of kindness shout out to people who have generously donated their land foróto keep it safe and to also let people enjoy it and walk on it. And it's been such a gift for me and many others.

Nick: That is nice. And for me, I want to say thank you to a Frontier Airlines employee who helped me out at the Las Vegas airport, the aforementioned Las Vegas airport. I was there, and I was trying to get out to where I was being picked up. And I don't know if it's me or a long flight or maybe it was that Happy Birthday song, I just was having a little trouble figuring out, like, where to go, because, like, it's a little confusing, the signage didn't feel great. And I got to one side and I was like, I don't think I'm in the right place. And there was a Frontier Airlines employee, I think, flight attendant, who was waiting for his car. And I was like, "Hey, I'm trying to get to, like, the passenger pickup. Where is that?" And he's like, "Oh, I know. The signage is really bad." He took me inside, walked me to the elevator, rode in the elevator with me to the third floor. As we got out, he pointed to where I needed to go in the distance and be like, "It's through those doors to the left. Follow this sign." And I was like, isn't that nice? Isn't that service? Won't it make me more interested in flying Frontier Airlines in the future? And so I thought, how nice. He went out of his way to, like, basically walk me to where I needed to go. Like, he didn't have to do that. He wasóhe probably had a long day of flying, too. But I thought very nice, and I thought, oh, isn't that lovely? So thank you, mystery flight attendant direction guy. I really appreciate it.

Leah: That is so nice. I love it.

Nick: Yeah. No, I reallyóI really appreciated it. It was really, really nice. So thank you.