Pulling Out Chairs, Sharing Photos with AI, Making Unreasonable Demands, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is quote, "What is a lady to do when a man pulls out her chair? I was at a potluck, and a sweet older gentleman pulled out my chair. I had no idea what to do. I ended up sitting down and sliding forward myself, but I don't know if I did the right thing. It all happened so fast. I've been overthinking it and reliving the anxiety all day. Please help!"

Leah: I love this one because it is—in my experience, it does require you—and I'd be interested in hearing if there's another way—you gotta scoot. Once you sit down, you gotta scoot.

Nick: Yes. Some participation is required on behalf of the person sitting. Yes.

Leah: So I think our letter-writer did perfect. I slid forward myself because they can't—unless it's a roller chair, they can't push us in.

Nick: Well, there is a technique in which the chair gets pushed forward, and then the person might actually lean forward a little bit or stand up a little bit, and then the chair gets scooched a little more. And then the person will say, like, "Oh, are you comfortable?" And you're like, "Oh, yes. Thank you." And then that's the end of it. So there can be some adjustment, but yes, if you wanted to scooch it yourself, I mean, that's also allowed, I think.

Leah: Well, I think people, like, keep their hands on the back of the chair, and we pretend that they're scooching, but really we're going up and sort of moving forward a little bit.

Nick: Yes. I mean, all of this is just sort of pageantry.

Leah: Yeah, it's a dance.

Nick: I mean, unless you're wearing a big hoop skirt, you know, and you just can't do it yourself, which is, I think, where this comes from. I mean, there was a time when women were wearing clothing that actually made it difficult for them to pull their chairs forward, and so they needed the help. Okay. I don't know if we live in that world anymore.

Leah: No, I think it's just, like, somebody being polite.

Nick: Yes. But I was thinking about this, and I am so rarely dining out with anybody where I would do this for someone else. Like, if I'm in a fancy restaurant, generally speaking, the person who is bringing us to our table, they're handling this chair thing.

Leah: Well, even in that situation, you're still scooting forward yourself.

Nick: Right. But I, as another guest, I'm probably not assisting,like, somebody else. If I was at a dinner party, I guess maybe I would offer the person on my right assistance if they needed it. But, like, I feel like it can be more awkward than not.

Leah: Well, I think our letter-writer is writing in as the sitter, not the puller.

Nick: Right. This is the sitter.

Leah: This is the sitter.

Nick: But if I was the sittee—is that the right term? If I was the person assisting with the sitting. Like, I so rarely have occasion to assist somebody, and it feels so awkward if I were to do it, because it would feel very forced. I don't know if I could do it in a way that felt very natural and not, like, making a big show, like, "Oh, please let me assist you with your chair, madam!"

Leah: Well, like, say we were going out to dinner somewhere.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: And you got to the table first.

Nick: Right.

Leah: You could just pull out one chair for me.

Nick: If I did that for you, Leah Bonnema ...

Leah: And then point at it like, "This one's you." And then I would go ...

Nick: "Oh, this is a chair. You sit in it, Leah." [laughs]

Leah: You know—you know, Nick, a lot of people actually do this. They just pull it out when you get there, and then they go sit at the other one.

Nick: Oh, like, that's my signal, like, "Oh, you sit here?"

Leah: Or this is like, "Oh, for you."

Nick: For you. Well, if I just pulled out your chair and then didn't actually scooch it back in, then that's weird.

Leah: I've definitely had people pull out my chair and then not scooch it.

Nick: Well, I don't need help pulling out the chair.

Leah: I don't need help scooching it either.

Nick: That's not where we need the help.

Leah: No, but that's what—but it's the elegance of being, like, "Here."

Nick: Right. It's just sort of a thoughtful gesture. I am assisting you in this sort of nice, thoughtful way, and it's not actually helping you, but I'm just sort of suggesting helpfulness.

Leah: Yeah, it's not really helping, in fact, unless some people need help with chairs. But if I didn't need help sitting, you're actually giving me more work. Because now I gotta scoot in, like, a squat position. But we're doing it out of, you know, like ...

Nick: Use your core.

Leah: Yeah, you're just sort of in a mid and then a [squeak squeak]. But just doing it out of politeness.

Nick: Okay. Yeah.

Leah: I mean, I don't expect you to pull a chair out for me. I was just using that as an example of, like, how you're just pulling it out. You're not ...

Nick: If you would like me to be chivalrous in that way, if that's where you want this relationship to go, I would be delighted. Hold open doors, hold your bag. Call you "Madam."

Leah: I hold open doors for you, and I'd be happy to pull your chair out. I'm just—the example was to be like, you're not actually helping me push it in.

Nick: Right. It's not actually helping you.

Leah: You're just pulling the chair.

Nick: Right. Okay. No, that's fair. That's fair. No, I mean, I think we want to live in a world in which people are demonstrating moments of thoughtfulness, and this is one of those demonstrations. Like, this is just me thinking of you and your comfort at the table. And so that's why it's sort of a nice gesture. And I think it's nice when it's real slick and it's not a big production. So I think we want to just be very cool about it and be like, "Okay, here's your chair. Up. In you go." And that's the end of it. And I feel like if it isn't awkward and it doesn't make anybody feel self conscious, then that's great.

Leah: And I think our letter-writer handled it perfectly. "I sat down and I slid forward."

Nick: Yeah, I think that is the way to handle it. And if they also assisted you with the scooching, that is also fine.

Leah: I've definitely pulled some chairs out for some people.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, it happens. Yeah, it definitely happens.

Leah: I'm very chivalrous.

Nick: That is true. Yes. You do love holding open a door.

Leah: I love holding open doors.

Nick: Actually, for too long. To the point where it actually becomes not chivalrous because now you've made it awkward for everybody.

Leah: But no, but then I stick my hand out and I go, "Don't you hurry. I love to do this."

Nick: And they're two miles away.

Leah: "Do not hurry. I live for this."

Nick: "Take your time. Got nowhere to be."

Leah: This is why I'm taking a broadsword fighting class, Nick. Because at the end of the day, I am a knight.

Nick: Oh. Sidebar, everybody. Did you know that Leah is currently educating herself with swords?

Leah: [laughs] What—what a wild world.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, you're basically learning how to fight with swords. Like, real swords.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: How fun!

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "My friend turned me into Studio Ghibli art using ChatGPT. I'm upset because now ChatGPT has access to my image. Should my friend have asked my permission? Or by using social media, should I expect my photos to be free to use by others? What is the etiquette around sharing images of people to AI?"

Leah: I mean, what a new world etiquette question.

Nick: Right? Oh, my goodness.

Leah: We are in the future.

Nick: Yes, the future is now. So first, I guess, what is Studio Ghibli for anybody who doesn't know? So basically, this is a Japanese anime studio that has a very specific visual style. And I think people are going around, like, turning themselves into characters with this style. And so, like, this is a thing on social media that people are doing.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so I guess the question is: Is it okay to use somebody else's image to do this?

Leah: I wouldn't. But I, at the same time, would assume that if I'm online, ChatGPT and everything has access to my—I think most people would. I think it's normalized at this point. If you're online, your stuff is in there.

Nick: Yes. I think ChatGPT already has your stuff. [laughs]

Leah: ChatGPT has everything. If you are not online, and your friend requests an image and then puts it in there, and you're like, "I have no online stuff," then I feel like that would be a misstep.

Nick: Yes, that does feel too far. Like, if you had private wedding photos that were not online, and then a friend uploaded them. Yeah, that—that might be too far.

Leah: But I do think that it's fair to assume that if it's online, ChatGPT has access to it.

Nick: Right. Now that aside, I think it would be nice to still ask for permission anyway. Even if ChatGPT already has it, it would be nice to be like, "Hey, I wanted to turn you into a Studio Ghibli character. Would that be okay?"

Leah: I agree with that a hundred percent. That's why I was saying I wouldn't do it to somebody without asking.

Nick: Yeah, I think that's the way to do it. So now I guess the question is: If we wanted to go back to our friend and be like, "Oh, that made me a little uncomfortable," I guess what would we say? And I guess you could say, like, something like that, which is like, "Hey, you know, having my stuff in AI makes me a little uncomfortable. And I'm sure it's already in there but, like, let's not give them any more. So next time, you know, just ask me first and let me know if, like, the photo you want to use, like, if I'm cool with."

Leah: Yeah. Or you could say, "Hey, I don't use ChatGPT, so it's fun that you do it, but if I could not be involved."

Nick: Right. "Yeah, I don't want them to know about me when AI takes over."

Leah: I also wonder if it's like, I feel like the Gen Zs right now are just—everything's online so they don't even think about it in that way, but that—I would be interested in knowing if like a 20 year old, I think they are just like, "It's all in there." Because it's been in there since the day they were born.

Nick: Yes. I think notions of privacy are very generational. And then how we regard privacy in general, I think this is also very generational, and how guarded people want to be and what expectations of privacy are, for sure. And I think certainly kids today, yeah, I think they are certainly more open about sort of living their lives more in public and as open books. Whereas I think, you know, other generations are like, "Oh no, some things should remain private."

Leah: But I think that that lends itself to—because nobody's wrong. It's just what makes you feel comfortable.

Nick: Yes, totally. These are different styles, and I think if you're the type of person that likes turning people into anime characters—and I get it. How fun!—I think you share yours, like, "Oh, this is what I did for my photo. Do you want me to make you one?" And then that's a way to ask.

Leah: Yeah. And then if the person isn't comfortable with it, we just move on.

Nick: Yeah, totally.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So our next question is quote, "Due to a variety of circumstances, I have had the great fortune to retire from the working world early. It's been a few months and I'm loving it. However, what I was not prepared for is the reaction from some of the people around me. Multiple people have questioned my decision and how I will possibly fill my time, and explain to me how bored they would be if they were retired. I've also had people ask me how I can afford to do this at my age. And speaking of age, several people have outright asked me how old I am. Can you help me with a reply to these types of questions? They are honestly bringing me down, and I want to enjoy this time in my life."

Leah: I—this question, I got so upset for our letter-writer. I was like, who are people? Why?

Nick: I know.

Leah: Are they—why are words coming out of their mouth to you like this?

Nick: Yeah, I was like, "Can I not just enjoy this?"

Leah: It reminded me of—and it's not to the same level, but just when I was moving to California, the amount of people—I'm excited about it. I'm moving.

Nick: "Oh, the traffic!"

Leah: "I would never live there." I mean, you're just like, "Oh. Well, this has literally nothing to do with you. And I don't know why these words are coming out of your mouth, because you're just a parade rainer right now."

Nick: Yeah. No, this is a parade rainer. Get your poncho. Yeah, you need your etiquette poncho.

Leah: That would be—oh, can we make etiquette ponchos for ...

Nick: I think we were supposed to already.

Leah: Weren't we supposed to make etiquette ponchos for ...

Nick: Yeah. No, we already talked about etiquette ponchos, and I don't know if I ever made them.

Leah: Oh, we gotta get that. And I think that's one line for our letter-writer. "Let me go get my poncho, since I didn't realize we were gonna rain on my parade today."

Nick: Oh, that's actually not a bad—that's not bad. Oh, I kind of love that.

Leah: I think people need to realize what they're doing. They need to, like, be snapped out of their—I think people are reactive, and they just say the thought in their mind.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And there needs to be, like, a moment where people think, "Am I being rude? Yes!"

Nick: Yes. Yeah. And in American etiquette, some of the rudest questions you can have for someone are about money and age, and so you are doing both here.

Leah: Way to knock out. One, two, punch.

Nick: Like, asking somebody about money, it's rude. It's just—it's no matter how you slice it, like, "Oh, do you have enough money for this?"

Leah: Yeah, that—I mean, unbelievable. And in New York and LA, you're allowed to say, "How much—can I ask how much you pay for rent?"

Nick: Yeah. Well, we have other, sneakier ways to find out how much money you have. "Oh, what neighborhood do you live in?" That's a good one.

Leah: No, but I think the rent thing you're allowed to ask because people are looking for places to live, whereas in other cities, you don't do that.

Nick: Oh, put a pin in that. I don't think you're allowed to ask somebody how much they pay in rent.

Leah: Oh, Nick. In the comedy community, we are constantly like, "Where can I find a place where I can live off comedy money?"

Nick: That's a different question than, "How much do you, Leah Bonnema, pay per month?"

Leah: Oh, no. That's how we're all asking it. I don't know. I think we're swinging in different circles. [laughs]

Nick: Okay. Yeah, I am not swinging in a circle in which we are discussing how much our monthly housing costs are.

Leah: Oh, I am.

Nick: Okay. [laughs] So for this, though, it's rude. It's only rude. So I think my first thought is that nosiness does not obligate you to participate. Just because they're nosy doesn't mean you have to indulge that. So you do not have to respond.

Leah: And they're—they're more than nosy. They're rude-sy. Rude-sy, nosy.

Nick: Oh, yeah. What's—what's the word for rude nosiness.

Leah: Oh, this is gonna be a fun word.

Nick: Oh, listeners, we need your ideas. What is the combination of nosiness and rudeness together?

Leah: Because I don't like "node-sy." That sounds like ...

Nick: No. And "rudesiness?" I don't know.

Leah: And Rosie is a name, so that doesn't work.

Nick: Yeah, Rosie is not good. "Rhino"? Like rhinoplasty? So, like, "rhino-rudy?"

Leah: "Rhino-rudy." Rude— "rude's rhino?"

Nick: "Runo-rhino?"

Leah: That's a rude rhino right there.

Nick: That's a rude rhino. Okay, put that on the whiteboard. Listeners, we do need your help with this, though.

Leah: Nasal?

Nick: Nasal?

Leah: Rude—rudenessal. Rudenessal.

Nick: Rudenessal? Oh, golly. Okay, well, we're gonna have to workshop this, but whatever it is, we don't like it, and I don't think it's a respond. But you have a choice. You can decide who am I today? And so you can be the type of person that just wants to, like, make a joke, which is like, "Oh, a lady never tells." Or whatever you want to say. Or you can just sort of deflect, which is like, "Oh, I appreciate your interest, but perhaps another time. Now tell me about what you're up to."

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Or we can just coldly say no, which is just like, "Thank you for your concern." And that's it.

Leah: And that's it. "Thank you for your concern."

Nick: "Thank you for your concern."

Leah: I think we could also do it— "Oh, I was super happy about it until this conversation."

Nick: [laughs] "Yeah, I was really having a great time until we chatted."

Leah: For the how old are you? How can you retire so young? I like the "Thank you for your concern. Thank you for your concern."

Nick: Yeah. Or, like, "Oh, I'm not sure if my finances are all that interesting, but thank you for your concern."

Leah: Yeah, I love that.

Nick: Yeah, that's not bad. I kind of like that. But yeah, how old are you? I mean, old enough.

Leah: I've literally never had somebody tell me something they were excited about where I've responded with anything less than, "I'm so excited for you!"

Nick: "Yay! Congratulations!"

Leah: Because guess what? It's not about me!

Nick: Yeah. I mean, isn't that always the issue with all of these rude things?

Leah: Rude-nosies.

Nick: Rudenosiness.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: When we come up with the term, it's gonna be so great.

Leah: It's so close. I feel it's marinating in both our noggins.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Obviously, it can be a different word for rude.

Nick: It could also be a different word for rude, yeah. A different word for nose. The concept is people who are both rude and nosy at the same time. This combination, this flavor, this feeling. What do we call this?

Leah: Up in your biz? Impolite?

Nick: Up in your biz?

Leah: Gross.

Nick: Yes, it's gross.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Yeah. What is this called? Yeah, it's gross.

Leah: It's gross.

Nick: It's gross. Okay, maybe—maybe that's it. Or "booger?" Something that's in the nose?

Leah: Oh, because it's in your nose, and it's rude!

Nick: Yeah? Yeah. "Oh, you just shot boogers at me."

Leah: No. You could literally look at somebody and go, "Oh my goodness, you're a booger, which is a person who's being nosy and rude."

Nick: Okay. I mean, that goes on the whiteboard, too.

Leah: So do you think people need to—they need to have that moment where they—it's reflected back to them so they can think about what just came out of their mouth?

Nick: Yes. We have said it before. You are not obligated to make somebody comfortable who is acting rudely. It is not your job to diffuse it and make them feel comfortable about the rude thing they just said. So you can make this awkward for them, which is like, "Oh, what an interesting question. Why is that important to you?"

Leah: The amount of my life that was spent trying to make people who made me feel bad to diffuse the situation? No, we're not doing that anymore.

Nick: Yeah. No, it is very freeing once you understand that it is not your obligation to make people comfortable who are acting rudely.

Leah: I also love that this is—I could also employ the stare here.

Nick: A stare is great. Yeah, I think a chilly stare. Or my favorite is the pursed, puzzled look.

Leah: [laughs] Yeah. We're gonna have to do a—I can't believe I can't think of this right now. It's like the easiest thing. It was a television show, and a man and a woman get married, and they already had a lot of kids. And then so—The Brady Bunch.

Nick: [laughs] I love that that's how we got to The Brady Bunch.

Leah: And then—well, then they have all the squares with the different faces. We should do one of those for Nick faces.

Nick: Oh, nine different Nick faces. And then we'll still put Alice in the middle. Okay.

Leah: [laughs] Yes. Let's still put Alice in the middle.

Nick: Yeah. No, I definitely have definitely eight expressions that we can use for this, for sure.

Leah: Yes!

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "Is it ever acceptable to research someone's details online before meeting them in person? I did this a few years ago with unfortunate results, and I've always shied away from it since. Here's the story. I'm a journalist, and over the years I've become quite good at uncovering information online. That's usually a positive thing, but I find it's not a good skill to have when meeting new people. A few years ago, I enrolled in a part-time master's degree program in international relations. About a month before our classes began, the course coordinator asked each of us to write a brief biography about ourselves so that it could be shared with the rest of the class in advance. I wrote my bio, and I was excited to read about my classmates too. One new student simply listed her home city and then described herself as an activist. That piqued my curiosity, and I wanted to know what type of activism she was engaged in. So I turned to the internet for answers, and it took me about three minutes to discover that she had been campaigning on behalf of a family member who had been convicted of a crime. I read about the case, and it really seemed like there was a good reason to believe that this young woman's relative had been wronged.

Nick: "I probably spent about 15 minutes reading about this woman's family story before I felt like I was prying into the life of someone I didn't know. And then when we actually met in person a few weeks later, I felt a bit awkward. I didn't know if I should mention that I knew anything about this case, and I felt that I'd overstepped a boundary by reading about this woman before meeting her. We did become friends, but I never told her that I read about her before meeting her because I didn't want to creep her out. I think it probably held me back from being even closer friends with her, and after graduating from the program, we went our separate ways. Since then, I've stopped myself from reading about someone before knowing I'm going to meet them. Sometimes in my career that's been a problem. For example, when I'm going to a dinner party and I know by the guest list I'll meet fellow journalists for the first time, I think maybe it'd be a nice thing to read some of their work in advance if I haven't already done so. I'm usually pretty good at chatting with people and making new friends, so it's not really an issue about finding things to talk about. It's more that I wonder if it's rude if I don't acknowledge someone's work to them, especially if they have a public-facing job. So is it polite or creepy to learn about people before meeting them?"

Leah: Great question.

Nick: Great question.

Leah: And I think this is also the new world etiquette order.

Nick: Yeah? Yeah, it's definitely a lot easier to find out about people in advance. However, when the world was smaller and we were in a small town, you kind of knew about everybody's business. So is it that different?

Leah: Well, it's just it's different that it's at our fingertips. It's different the way we get information.

Nick: Yes. I guess about perfect strangers. Yeah. Like, the mysterious man who just came in on the last train. Yeah, we don't necessarily know about them in the 1800s.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Whereas now we can just, like, find out in two seconds.

Leah: Now we can just look—search his image in Google and be like, "Oh, did you move here from Charlotte?"

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. All right. So brave new world.

Leah: So I have multiple thoughts.

Nick: All right, bring it.

Leah: So I do think there's different circumstances on when I would think talking about researching somebody is fine.

Nick: Yeah, totally.

Leah: Like on a date, I probably wouldn't.

Nick: Hmm, okay.

Leah: Like, "Hey, I googled you. I noticed that you used to be married and you had three kids and you live at—" you know, I mean, I would keep that to myself.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: At a dinner party when I knew there were other journalists there?

Nick: Well wait, you would keep that to yourself, or you wouldn't actually research it at all?

Leah: Okay. If you're not researching, I think it's normal if you're gonna go out on a date with somebody you meet online to look them up.

Nick: Right.

Leah: To see if you might get murdered.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think a safety concern, for sure. Yes. Yes, I think there's a difference between researching and disclosing. And so let's put a pin in that. We'll come back to that. But continue.

Leah: At a dinner party when there's gonna be other people in your profession, I do think that people always love a compliment. So you're like, "Oh, saw you were gonna be here. I loved your writing on Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Nick: Yes. That scholarly, peer-reviewed paper. Yes. Well done.

Leah: [laughs] That's just what popped into my head. I think in this circumstance with the woman in your class, I would have felt the same where I felt awkward and then I'm like, I shouldn't bring it up, but because I have the—I'm far enough away from it, and I got to read about it and think about it, I think that if something like this comes up again, you could be like, "Hey, I was excited to learn about all of our fellow classmates. I noticed that you were an activist for blankety blank. That seems, like, really important. I was wondering if there's anything I can do to help to be a part of that, or is there a petition I can sign?"

Nick: Okay. That's an interesting approach. Yeah. But in that same vein, you're disclosing the fact that oh, I googled you up the wazoo, and so I know all about this.

Leah: But I would say that I've looked up every—I mean, she read everybody's bio for everybody in the class.

Nick: Yeah. I think for this specifically, I think you could have said, like, "Hey, I looked everybody up. I saw you were an activist. I saw the thing about your family's case. How interesting. I would love to talk to you about it sometime." And maybe leave it at that.

Leah: Because I think if they have it online and if you're an activist for something, you want people to know. A part of that job is wanting to get the word out.

Nick: Yes. Although just because something's online does not necessarily give you license to bring it up because, like, where everybody lives and, like, what they paid for their house, like, I don't want to be invited to your house and be like, "Oh, beautiful house! I already looked at the floor plan before I came, and I saw how much you paid, and I know what your mortgage is." Like, I don't want that conversation from one of my friends.

Leah: It's an entirely different conversation than if I'm, like, an activist for ...

Nick: Well, right. Yeah. So I guess the activist stuff, like, that is sort of public. Those are news stories. It's very personal, though.

Leah: It's personal, but it's not private. And it's not private to the point where it—to be an activist, you actually want eyes on your cause.

Nick: Right.

Leah: That's the goal of being an activist. So you're actually doing what she wants and is looking for in that circumstance.

Nick: Yes, that's a good point. So then that's not creepy. That's, I think, fine. If it's done in that sort of spirit.

Leah: Because I took from our letter-writer that when they looked it up, they think, "Yes, this family member was wronged," you know? "I want to support."

Nick: Yes. I mean, I think it's a little edge case because it's such a personal story, I'm guessing. And so I think you'd have to be very delicate how you bring up how much you know about it. But I think acknowledging that you do know something about it, I guess could be okay.

Leah: I just feel like it's already been looked up.

Nick: Yeah. You can't unring that bell.

Leah: And our letter writer is sitting there feeling it when they're—because they said they feel like they could have been closer friends if they had talked about it.

Nick: Yeah. I don't like that detail.

Leah: And I absolutely understand the feeling of being like, oh, I feel like I overstepped. I don't want to bring it up. And that is something that I would definitely feel and do. So I think that just putting it out on the table, because they—it is something that they're passionate about, and if you come at it from that way, then it could be just a supportive move. And you did read about everybody in the class. It wasn't just this per—if you had just looked this one person up?

Nick: Right.

Leah: That would be weird.

Nick: Yeah, of course. And I think sources of information which are fair? Anything on your LinkedIn, anything professional, anything about your professional work, anything you've published, I feel like all that's fair game. And I mean, I remember doing this when I was doing, like, red carpet event coverage. And, like, I knew I was going to be going to three events in an evening. And the publicist for those events would send me a list of, like, expected guests, and so there'd be like 200 different names of boldface names. And I would google every one of them. I would try to get their photo to see what they looked like. I'd try to learn something about them all. And I would try to memorize all that for, like, 600 people. And then when I went and I spotted somebody, I'd be like, "Oh, that's such and such. CEO of such and such. And here's a fun fact about them. Okay, got it." And so, like, that was the job. And so I think if you are dining with journalists, yeah, you should totally, like, google them up the wazoo and read their stuff. That's great.

Leah: I think so, too.

Nick: You shouldn't feel awkward about that at all.

Leah: I think with the lady in our class, just like Nick said, the dividing line is that if she was an activist for animals, she was an animal activist. We found out, we would have no problem being like, "Hey, I saw you're into animals."

Nick: Right.

Leah: It is specifically that it's about her family.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And that's why it feels weird.

Nick: That's why it feels a little weird. But the fact that you googled everybody and the fact that you came across this information, I don't think that's a problem, necessarily. I think how you introduce that topic, I guess that's where some discretion and finesse is required. So I don't think we want to be, like, out of the gate, like, "Hey! Oh, you're such and such. Oh, I read about your family tragedy." Like, I think we don't want to come out of the gate with that.

Leah: Yeah, I don't think any of our letter-writers would do that. I also don't think we would go—not that anybody that listens to Wolves would do this, but we don't go, "Oh, hey. I saw that you're an activist for blank, and you think that they were incorrectly imprisoned. I disagree with that." I would not say that either.

Nick: Also that.

Leah: I wouldn't say, "Devil's advocate." I wouldn't say that.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, I think the way to introduce it is like, "Hey, I read about some of your activism. How interesting."

Leah: I guess my one thing is—and I'm usually a very—I very much agree with the we don't have to have things come out of our mouths that ...

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I really agree with that. But I do feel like, in my personal experience, I have let my anxiety about seeming like I've overstepped overshadow caring about somebody.

Nick: Hmm. Yeah.

Leah: And those would be a few of the things that I wish I had just been more forthcoming about, because I was so afraid of overstepping that I maybe didn't express a feeling of community.

Nick: I think a good example of what you're talking about is sometimes when we have a friend, and maybe somebody in their lives has passed away and they haven't told us yet, but we heard through the grapevine, you know, through friends of friends, and now we know, and we're thinking, like, "Oh, should I reach out to them? Should I express my condolences?" And I think very often, like, yes, I think we actually want to express our condolences.

Leah: Hard agree.

Nick: Right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so unless there's some reason why, like, they're keeping it a secret, or you're not supposed to know, or you were told in confidence or, like, unless there's one of those circumstances, most of the times it's nice to express condolences. So I think the idea of, like, oh, I don't want to act on information I have, yeah, I think we want to use discretion.

Leah: And I think when we do express those things, we don't expect anything back from those people.

Nick: No.

Leah: That they're—we just are sending our love to them.

Nick: Yeah, exactly. And then my final thought is: even when information you have is public, you do want to be sort of mindful of how you're telling the person. And an example of this is this happens where people will come up to us and they'll mention something from the podcast, but what they will mention is an episode they just listened to, but that we recorded four years ago. And we have no idea what you're talking about. We have no context for this. And you're expecting us to agree or know what you're talking about, and we have no idea. Like, recently somebody was like, "Oh, I love zafus, too." And I'm like, "Zafus? What are you talking about? That is coming out of nowhere." And then it's like, oh, okay. There was an episode in which we were talking about not having enough chairs, and we were talking about Zen meditation cushions called a zafu. Okay. But, like, you just can't come out of the gate with zafu with no context.

Leah: [laughs] And I'm going to add to that.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: If it's something that might be personal, or you think I might have feelings about, don't bring it up in front of other people.

Nick: Oh, great pro tip! Yeah.

Leah: I intensely dislike it when people do that to me. They'll bring up something, and then there's other people that I barely know or don't know in the same context standing right there. And you're like, great, now this is a public conversation. Thank you so much. Okay!

Nick: Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. So in the end, information is not the problem. It's what you do with it, where, when, and how.

Leah: And I really feel like we've covered a lot of angles.

Nick: Yeah. No, I think we covered them all. So our next thing is bonkers.

Leah: Bonkers!

Nick: And it's quote, "I work part time as a spin instructor at a studio nearby. I teach two classes a week at the same time every evening on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and have been teaching the same time slot for the past few months. Recently, one of the women attending came up to me after class was done to ask me a question. She said that she really enjoyed the spin classes, but unfortunately, she found my voice to be, quote, 'a bit grating,' and she was wondering if I would consider switching my class times, as these were the only classes that she could attend. I was baffled! She genuinely seemed to think this was a normal request, and was irritated when I told her I would not be switching my regular class times to accommodate her incredibly rude request. It was bonkers!"

Leah: Much like a spin class, I blacked out in the middle of this. It is so bonkers.

Nick: So bold. That is so bold!

Leah: First off, I mean, it—it—I wasn't even ready for the second part. I thought it was bonkers that she came over and told me my voice was a little grating.

Nick: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, that's rude. I mean, that's so rude.

Leah: So rude!

Nick: But then ...

Leah: But then!

Nick: Oh, I mean, that would never occur to me.

Leah: I mean, I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready that somebody would ask this.

Nick: And sincerely asked this.

Leah: Can you—what kind of life are they living?

Nick: This is somebody who goes around the world thinking, "Well, it can't hurt to ask." Well, you know what? It can.

Leah: We all dislike you intensely.

Nick: Yes. "Can you rearrange your life to accommodate my schedule and my needs?"

Leah: It's not even—it's like, this is a class.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: This is a class. I am working!

Nick: And my voice to be a bit grating. So can you please, like, teach a different day so we can get a different instructor?

Leah: Because this is the only time that works for me. And I don't ...

Nick: Thank you so much.

Leah: You're not in my. I have like a certain octave that I like to listen to. And I only—I request teacher—even though this is not my studio that I own, but I want everybody to be in this octave in this time slot.

Nick: I don't—I'm truly speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Leah: If we could follow this person around all day, and I bet they're saying this to everybody left, right and center.

Nick: Yeah, I guess she goes into the coffee shop and be like, "Hey, would you mind moving your building across the street because the sun is just a little warm here?"

Leah: "Hey, so I can only get coffee between 7:00 and 8:00 am, and yours is not like the kind of face I like looking at. So between seven and eight, can we have, like, a different face up in front? Because this is, like, the kind of face I like looking at between seven and eight, and that's when I get my coffee."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: This woman is beyond what I actually thought was—what was rude. You know what I mean? It was rude at the beginning.

Nick: It's bonkers. It is truly bonkers. This is the very definition of bonkers.

Leah: This sentence: "She genuinely seemed to think it was a normal request, and was irritated when I told her that I would not be switching my regular class to accommodate her incredibly rude request."

Nick: Ah, to be irritated at this. That's wild!

Leah: That's wild! This is a three—this is not two levels. This is three levels.

Nick: That is another level. Because it's like, "Oh, not only am I being wildly inappropriate with this request, but I'm now annoyed with you that you will not agree."

Leah: "I'm now annoyed with you that you're pointing out that I am a monster."

Nick: So thank you for sending this to us. And you out there, if you have a bonkers story, please send it to us. And of course, we'll take your questions, vents, repents, etiquette crime reports, rudest things that have ever been said to your face, and all the other fun things we have. Go to our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!