Etiquette, manners, and beyond! In this episode, Nick and Leah tackle passing decanters of port, ordering at drive-thru windows, offering guests tap water, taking advantage of tea enthusiasts, talking in elevators, using smart watches at the theatre, and much more. Please subscribe! (We'd write you a hand-written thank you note if we could.)
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Hosts: Nick Leighton & Leah Bonnema
Producer & Editor: Nick Leighton
Theme Music: Rob Paravonian
Nick: Do you honk at a drive-thru? Do you not wait to be seated? Do you steal tea from the office? Were you raised by wolves?! Let's find out!
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Nick: Hey, everybody, it's Nick Leighton.
Leah: I'm Leah Bonnema.
Nick: We're in New York today. Let's just get right down to it.
Leah: Let's get in it.
Nick: Leah, do you know the Bishop of Norwich?
Nick: I'm just asking.
Leah: Is that on the chess board?
Nick: [Giggling] He's an awfully nice fellow, but always forgets to pass the port.
Leah: I don't know what's happening!
Nick: [Laughing] So-
Leah: Port wine cheese? Port wine cheese?
Nick: Port wine! So, if you're ever at a dinner party and at the end of the meal, people are drinking port, someone may say to you, "Do you know the Bishop of Norwich?" What this means is that the decanter is being passed around the table, and it stopped with you, and you haven't noticed. The person is asking you to continue passing that decanter around.
Leah: What a world!
Nick: This is a very obscure etiquette thing.
Leah: I love it!
Nick: But it does come up, and I want you to be prepared. The history of this is fun. There was a bishop in Norwich, England, in the early 1800s, Henry Bathurst. Apparently, he was 93, at the end of his reign, and he had the tendency to fall asleep at the table. So, subsequently-
Nick: There was a subsequent bishop who kept this idea alive of, if you weren't passing the port, like, "Oh, do you know the Bishop of Norwich?"
Leah: When you sort of fell asleep on the job? [crosstalk]
Nick: Yeah. So, the traditional response is, "Oh, no, I don't," and then what you would say is, "Oh, he's an awfully nice fellow," or, "Oh, he's a terribly good chap, but he always forgets to pass the port." That's the common response.
Leah: Oh, that's so fun!
Nick: That's what someone would say to you if you say no. If you say yes, you do know him, then you would realize instantly, oh, there's a decanter of port next to me. I need to take some and pass it along.
Leah: This is hilarious. I love it so much.
Nick: [Giggling] I'm running out of amuse-bouche ideas, so audience, if you have any ideas for obscure things to talk about, I would love to hear them.
Leah: I might actually do one on firewood.
Nick: Oh, that's a very good one! Yes!
Leah: We're gonna go in a different direction when Leah brings it in [crosstalk] I love this one. This is so fun!
Nick: Yeah, so, "Do you know the Bishop of Norwich? He's an awfully nice fellow."
Leah: He's an awfully nice fellow-
Nick: But always forgets to pass the port.
Leah: But always forgets to pass the port. Such a fun one!
Nick: That's a good one, right?
Leah: I was like, "I don't know!!"
Nick: We're back, and now it's time to go deep.
Leah: Very deep.
Nick: So deep. I mean-
Leah: This is halfway deep [crosstalk]
Nick: It's maybe a little shallow-
Leah: It's a fun one. It's a fun one.
Nick: I want to talk about drive-thru-window etiquette.
Leah: I think this is great.
Nick: Drive-thru fast food - what you're supposed to do; what you're not supposed to do. Because I have recently become aware that somebody was enraged at a fast-food drive-thru recently and pulled an AK-47 out.
Nick: Apparently that happened, so-
Leah: Is everybody okay?
Nick: Everyone was fine.
Nick: However, that happened, apparently. So, things can get tense at a drive-thru, and I think we want to talk about etiquette-
Nick: -for public safety. So, actually, growing up, we did not go through drive-thrus-
Leah: We didn't either.
Nick: -this wasn't a thing-
Leah: This is where Nick and I [crosstalk]
Nick: It's not that I had a deprived childhood. I think we just didn't have a lot of drive-thrus.
Leah: Our nearest drive-thru was ... I think you could get there in 20 minutes.
Leah: More likely 30.
Nick: At that point, you wanna get out of the car, use the bathroom.
Leah: Yeah, at that point, you're getting out.
Nick: It's a road trip. Then, I went from California to New York, and we don't have drive-thrus in New York.
Leah: We don't have drive-thrus here.
Nick: So, I kinda missed out. Whenever I am on a road trip and there's a drive-thru, I love it.
Leah: It's so fun!
Nick: I love it!
Leah: But I have definitely noticed that some people do things where you're like, "What's going on right now?"
Nick: Yeah! So, I have Googled this extensively and a lot of people have a lot of thoughts, including workers at these restaurants, who have said things on the internet that they want you to know.
Leah: Oh, great because that's really, I think, who knows best.
Nick: They're the people that are sort of the beneficiary of good etiquette-
Nick: -and be recipient of bad etiquette.
Leah: Yep, as long as- also with the people driving behind you.
Nick: For sure. So, the first thing that a lot of people talk about is you want to be ready. You want to be prepared before you approach. So, this means be prepared with what you want to order. Be prepared with your money. Be prepared with the cup holders. You know, the cup holder is vacant, ready to receive a cup. You. Want. To. Be. Ready. So, we start there. Then, we get to the preview menu. This is your opportunity to think about, further-
Leah: This is where you slow down.
Nick: -what we want.
Nick: There's always a preview menu, I believe. I don't have a lot of experience with drive-thrus, but I believe there's always a menu posted first before you get to the speaker box.
Nick: So, use the opportunity to review, and contemplate, and make some final decisions. Then, I am told that not only do you want to speak clearly, but I am also told that they're listening. They can hear you. You do not need to wait for them to verbally acknowledge each item on your order. You can just go from one item to the next. You don't need to have them say, "Okay, next?" Just go!
Nick: They're trained professionals. They can handle this.
Nick: Also, one order per car. We're not doing separate checks.
Leah: Oh, yeah!
Nick: We're not doing separate checks.
Leah: Oh, I didn't even know ... I didn't even think that that would be a thing that people had to deal with.
Nick: Apparently, this is a huge problem.
Leah: Oh, my goodness.
Nick: Yeah, and we're not doing special orders. If you've got modifications - if you're going off menu - park your car; go inside.
Nick: We're not doing special orders.
Leah: Can you say, "Hey, can you do this with almond milk?"
Nick: I think we're not doing that.
Leah: Not even a little bit?
Nick: I think we're not modifying, if possible. I mean, I guess, at Starbucks. Is there almond milk at McDonald's? Is that an option?
Leah: There's almond milk at Dunkin' Donuts drive-thru.
Leah: But I had to ask.
Nick: I feel like at a Dunkin' Donuts-
Leah: So, I said, "Hey, do you have almond milk?"
Nick: I don't think that's a modification.
Leah: That's a question.
Nick: That is a menu option.
Leah: Right, but I had to ask.
Leah: So, that's why I was asking.
Nick: But that doesn't feel like a modification.
Leah: So, what's an example of a modification?
Nick: "I want the Big Mac, but I want it without cheese." That is a fairly big departure from the Big Mac.
Leah: So, you think that the Big Mac without cheese-
Nick: It's no longer a Big Mac.
Leah: Do you think they should park?
Nick: I think you park for that.
Nick: Whereas, "Oh, can I get the latte with almond milk?" That's the same ... That's a menu item.
Nick: That exists. I agree that there is some nuance here.
Nick: But the principle of the thing here is we don't want to slow down the line, so if you [crosstalk]
Leah: I mean, burger with no cheese seems pretty easy.
Nick: No, but they're are mass-producing these. They're already making-
Leah: They're mass-producing food at fast-food restaurants?!
Nick: No, I mean ... There are a couple of Big Macs down the line.
Nick: They've got a couple of them going.
Nick: You're not necessarily getting the one you actually ordered.
Nick: You're getting the next one available that's coming down the pike.
Nick: So, it's different. Then, fast-food-window workers have mentioned that some people will attempt to order additional things at the window. This is frowned upon.
Leah: Very frowned ... It's a line-up.
Nick: Because, apparently, changing an order is actually difficult. Once it's placed, it requires a manager, or a supervisor, sometimes, based on how the system is set up. So, this is problematic. Some people attempt to exploit this loophole, I'm told, by asking for condiments that are normally charged.
Leah: Oh ...
Nick: So, if there's a sauce that has a charge, you should order that at the speaker box. Don't try and be shifty and ask out the window, knowing that the person will probably give it to you because it's more trouble to void the order and redo it.
Leah: Karma points.
Nick: Right? You can do it. You can probably get away with it. Doesn't mean it's right.
Leah: God's watching.
Nick: Right? So, that's something that came up, which I thought was very interesting. Another thing that people mentioned was don't order from different restaurants. Don't order a Big Mac if you're at a Burger King.
Leah: I do think some people just forget, though. It's just like a thing that comes out of their mouth.
Nick: But enough people have mentioned this as a thing that happens. Apparently, it irks the window people.
Leah: Does it hurt their feelings?
Nick: Maybe a little bit, yeah.
Leah: Are they gonna be like, "You're in the wrong place!"
Nick: Then, there's a short list of things that- just be mindful of. One of them was sunglasses.
Leah: The thing is, my sunglasses are my prescription glasses. I can't take them off.
Nick: Yeah, so, I mean, whether [inaudible] leaves them on or off, I don't know.
Leah: I think that one, we can ... You're outside driving.
Leah: I think safety first.
Nick: It just- it was mentioned. I'm passing it along. Do with this information as you will. Somebody mentioned that turn off your windshield wipers, when you get up to the window because you will splash [crosstalk]
Leah: Oh, I didn't even think of that.
Nick: That's interesting, and high beams, if it doesn't feel necessary; maybe turn off your high beams.
Leah: Well, you shouldn't have your high beams on in an area.
Nick: Okay. Well, that was mentioned that a lot of window people get blinded.
Leah: If we're gonna talk about high beams, that's a whole driving issue. You're not supposed to have your high beams on.
Nick: That's a different deep dive. Then, let's talk about being naked. Many-
Leah: I didn't even ...
Leah: If you'd have given me 300 guesses, I wouldn't have. I ...
Nick: Many people have mentioned-
Nick: -that this is an issue.
Nick: Here's why it's an issue.
Leah: Well, here's why I can't believe it's happening. Can we just take a second to ...?
Leah: You're saying many people have brought this up?
Nick: In multiple forums online discussing this issue that I have come across, this came up. Yes. Yes. I mean, people drive around naked. That's a thing.
Leah: I didn't know that was a thing.
Nick: Well, you're from Maine. It's too cold to do that.
Leah: Nobody would do that!
Nick: [Giggling] It would not occur to me. Also, I feel like it's very unsafe to drive barefoot unless you're wearing shoes and you're naked? I don't know how that works, but ...
Leah: Which is such an odd look.
Nick: But why this is a problem is that not only is it disturbing for the window person, okay, but if there's a problem with your order and now, you have to park and go in, that whole "No shirt, no shoes" rule that a lot of these places have? This applies, and now, what do you do?
Leah: I think more importantly was the first part of this sentence-
Leah: -which is this poor window person coming to give you your food, and they come out-
Nick: Yes, and here we are.
Leah: And here we are.
Nick: Here we are.
Leah: I mean, I can understand why somebody would want to be like, "I'm gonna shake up the world and go drive through town naked."
Leah: Somebody is just trying to-
Nick: Just feel like they're alive.
Leah: Yeah, I get that.
Leah: You know, some people are just trying to go through their workday.
Nick: But also, that McDonald's coffee is still hot.
Leah: It's very hot!
Nick: Very hot.
Leah: Also, you shouldn't be driving without shoes.
Nick: That feels dangerous, yeah.
Leah: It is dangerous!
Nick: Or flipflops, or ...
Leah: Yeah because it could get stuck under one of the pedals.
Nick: Yeah, don't do that. So, yeah, naked ... I think, let's be clothed. Then, finally-
Leah: You can just put on a light ... You know, you could put your pajamas on.
Leah: You don't have to put a formal gown on.
Nick: A mumu is fine.
Leah: I'm also like ... People want to be publicly nude. I just think maybe that person- just think about the person working that day. You don't know what they're ... How many nude people they [crosstalk]
Nick: Is this what they need?
Nick: Is this the thing that they need in their day, at that moment?
Leah: They just weren't ... You know?
Nick: Yeah. Then, finally, the thing that apparently is creating the most rage-
Leah: Can I guess? Because we haven't said what creates the most rage to me yet-
Nick: Oh, what do you think your ... What's the guess?
Leah: -is when the person in front of me gets their order and then barely moves, so I can't move up to the window.
Nick: Because they're checking their order and all that?
Leah: Yeah, you just need to pull to the side. You just pull to the side and park.
Nick: So, something I did read, which was very interesting is-
Leah: It's also dangerous because sometimes, they just go slowly, while they're digging in ... Pull to the side and park.
Nick: Well, it's not ... Oh, it's dangerous for them because they're not paying attention.
Leah: Yeah, they're not paying attention. They're driving through a parking lot, looking into the bag.
Nick: Yes. Pull off to the side. But also why you should do that - window workers have said that a lot of these fast-food restaurants have timers where they time how long it takes between ordering and driving away. There is some device that senses when a car drives away. So, if you stay at the window checking your order, you're making the time longer for the staff, and they have sort of service-level targets that they're trying to hit. You will mess that up. So, they want you just to drive away; park; if there's a problem, come in because you're gonna have to come in anyway. You can't solve this problem at the window. So, just drive off, go somewhere else nearby, and then check your order.
Leah: I do understand being like, "Is there ketchup in there?" You know what I mean? Do a quick look-see because, sometimes, people will have forgotten-
Nick: Yes, okay.
Leah: But there are people who just sit there and slowly go through. Then, they're like, "Oh, I have to redo my radio, and put on ..." This is not a place to get your cell phone plugged in.
Nick: No, no.
Leah: Do that to the side.
Nick: Exactly. No, but where the rage comes from-
Leah: I'm ready.
Nick: -apparently, is there is a thing called the double drive-thru. I was unaware of this.
Leah: I don't know ...
Nick: What the double drive-thru is, is two lanes, two separate speaker boxes, that merge into a single lane for the window.
Leah: This is way past my experiences.
Nick: This goes way beyond anything I've experienced. But yes, there's the double drive-thru. What apparently is happening is I'm ordering, you're ordering in your car, we're both done ordering. Who goes first? Who merges first? That's where hostility-
Nick: -apparently is happening is that people are trying to get in there first.
Leah: How do people know, when they pull up to the window, which one of the two it was?
Nick: So, apparently, my research suggests that there is a device that photographs the car, placing the order so they know which car goes with which order.
Leah: It almost seems, at that point, that it would be just easier to have to drive-thru windows.
Nick: Well, but there's only one kitchen, so how do you do that?
Leah: I don't know. Why don't we just have one drive-thru lane?
Nick: Well, I guess there's more volume, because why we want two is sort of like why we want two cashiers everywhere.
Nick: If there's that one person who's taking too long.
Leah: But then, you still have two- you still, in the end, only have one cashier.
Nick: That's true, but there's still a certain amount of time it takes to prepare the orders, I guess. But, yeah, no, having two windows, that would be better. Yeah, that's true. Well, I don't make the rules!
Leah: Then, you could always say the person who is on this side drives to the front window, and the next person drives to the back window.
Nick: Yes. "Go to Window A. Go to Window B."
Leah: This line goes to Window A; this line goes to Window B. Boom.
Nick: Well, that's not what's happening.
Leah: Okay, well, I just wanted to throw that out there [crosstalk]
Nick: -McDonald's Corporation, FYI ... But, yeah, apparently the double drive-thru and then the merging ... The merging is apparently creating a lot of rage.
Leah: This reminds me of, or makes me think of when you're at the airport, and you're in two different lines, where you're putting your stuff through, but then you both have to walk through the same-
Leah: Take a picture of your body to see if you have anything weird.
Nick: Uh-huh. Is that the technical term for this device?
Leah: I think that's a scientific term.
Nick: Hm, yes. Mm-hmm.
Leah: I call it the thingy. I'm a very casual person, so if somebody looks ... If I'm at the same time as somebody, I'll be like, "You go ahead ..."
Nick: "Go on in ..." Yeah. Fine.
Leah: But usually people aren't at the exact same time. There's somebody who was a little bit before the other person-
Nick: "Oh, no, you were there first." Yeah, but they just feel like they want to go.
Leah: Yeah, there are always those people.
Nick: In situations like that, which are fairly low-stakes, just have at it.
Leah: Sometimes, you're just having a tough day. This will happen to me, where I'm just having a tough day and other things went wrong, so it's the little thing that puts me over the edge.
Nick: Oh, I get that, yeah.
Leah: So, I understand why, all of a sudden, it becomes very important.
Leah: But then, there's just people who always had to go first, and just know that, deep inside, they are unhappy.
Nick: [Laughing] Okay. Yeah, it's not about you. It's not about you. It's true. Yeah, it's about what's happening in their lives.
Leah: Otherwise, it would be totally fine to be like, "Ooh, you go ahead."
Nick: Yeah. "Oh, no, no, you go first."
Nick: Yeah. That would be polite, but we don't always live in that world.
Nick: No. So, that's our discussion about drive-thrus.
Leah: Let us know if you've seen any naked people at drive-thrus, or if you-
Nick: Or, have you done it?
Leah: Oh, yes!
Nick: I feel like our audience does not drive through drive-thrus naked.
Leah: We- we never know.
Nick: We don't know who's out there.
Leah: Also, let us know if you have one of these double drive-
Leah: I've never even seen one.
Nick: Yeah. Tell us more about the double drive-thru in your experience. I would love to hear.
Nick: We're back, and now it's time to take some questions from you guys. Aww, Leah was gonna howl, and then-
Leah: But you said "You guys."
Nick: Oh. You feel like you can't howl?
Leah: Well, I mean, it's just not the same ... I don't know what 'you guys's' sound ... I know what the wilderness sounds like.
Nick: All right. Well, we have some questions from the wilderness!
Nick: [Laughing] So, our first question-
Leah: Thank you so much. I look forward to that.
Nick: I know. I don't wanna take this away from you. Our first question is: "I live in Los Angeles and, in general, I drink tap water. When I have friends or guests come by - not for a formal event - is it rude to offer them tap water? I know if I'm having someone visit or stay with me, I'll usually go out of my way to pick up whatever snacks or drinks I know they'll like, but if I don't have time or advanced notice, I find myself apologizing for just having tap water. I don't have a Brita, or otherwise-filtered-water pitcher either." Hmm.
Leah: I wrote on top - I'm fine with that. If you don't have an advanced notice that somebody's dropping by?
Nick: Oh, yeah.
Leah: You're like, "Hey, would you like some tap water?"
Nick: Like, "I'm sorry. You didn't know I was coming. Where is the toast points?"
Leah: Yeah [Laughing] I think-
Nick: Yeah, what you have-
Leah: -it's lovely that you're offering them anything, if you had no advanced notice that people were stopping by.
Nick: Yeah. When there's a pop-by, I mean ... Yeah.
Leah: Even when my friends come by, I'll be like, "Hey, I have tap water. Do you want some?"
Nick: Right. Now, my thought, as a Californian, myself, hard-wired to think about earthquakes, you need to have a little emergency kit, here. I would like you to have a bottled-water emergency kit happening-
Leah: Yeah, but should that person offer their emergency-kit water to guests?
Nick: Well, I think you rotate stock. You rotate stock.
Leah: "Would you like tap water or some of my emergency water?"
Nick: I always keep, in stock, in my home six gallons of water, and I rotate stock. I might use a gallon of this water and then I replenish. So, I'm always topping up my inventory levels. I have reorder points. So, that's what I do to make sure I always have, at all times, six gallons. But, you know, FIFO - first in, first out.
Leah: So, for those of us who are not anywhere [crosstalk] near as organized as Nick-
Nick: You're not using the FIFO inventory system?
Nick: Okay. Yeah, first in, first out.
Leah: Honestly, I'm impressed. It's incredible. I salute you.
Nick: Yeah. I think everyone should do FIFO.
Leah: Um, I think it's okay to offer tap water.
Nick: In this situation, it's fine to offer tap water. Fine. Yes. Now, I guess my question is, I know people don't typically drink the tap water in Los Angeles, but the tap water is fine, right? Is there a problem with the tap water in Los Angeles? Is it just because people don't like the taste?
Leah: I don't know. I drink tap water all the time.
Nick: Well, we're in New York, and we brag about how good our tap water is.
Leah: We say we have the best water in the world [crosstalk] The pipes are horrible.
Leah: That's the joke.
Nick: Well, I actually- I do filter my water because I've done a lead test, and, yeah, there's a lot of lead in my water.
Leah: Well, we use a Brita in our apartment, but as soon as I leave the city, I drink the water anywhere.
Nick: But I think if your water was not safe to drink, then, yes, I think it would be nice to offer your guests water that is not harmful.
Leah: Yeah, but I think the water is safe to drink in Los Angeles.
Nick: I believe it is safe, yes.
Leah: Yeah, so I think you're just-
Nick: Yeah, but also, don't apologize because once you've apologized for it, now it's sort of like are you doing a wrong thing? You're not.
Leah: Yeah. I agree with that. Just say, "Hey, I have tap water. Would you like some?"
Nick: No, I don't think we even say tap water. I think we just say, "Oh, would you like a glass of water?"
Nick: Or, in L.A., is the default setting that it's always bottled, so if you're offering water, we need to clarify?
Leah: I think that if you're not using a Brita, you say tap water.
Nick: Okay, so we do want to just clarify.
Leah: Also, when you clarify, people don't have to ask.
Nick: That's true because it is a little awkward to be like, "Is this tap water?"
Leah: For example, in comedy, if people have time on their show, and you need to run something, people say, "Hey, do you have time for a guest spot?" That's your way of saying, "I just need time. I don't need to be paid." That way, people don't have to have the conversation.
Nick: Mm. How is this related to the water?
Leah: I'm saying these are words that we use, when we're saying, "I don't have a Brita."
Nick: I see. Okay.
Leah: You know what I mean?
Nick: So, it's code.
Leah: Yeah, I'm saying I have tap water-
Nick: Okay [laughing] it's not code.
Leah: -because I think everybody's default is Brita.
Nick: Probably, yes.
Leah: So, instead of saying, "I don't have a Brita," you're saying, "Would you like some tap water?"
Nick: Okay, fair. But then, let's not apologize-
Leah: But don't apologize for it.
Nick: Right. As a guest, you should accept that. You shouldn't feel like it's Julia Roberts, and be like, "We brought this in from Hinkley for you." [Laughing]
Leah: Yeah, I think you can feel free to say, "Oh, no, thank you."
Leah: But you don't have to say, "I don't drink tap water ..."
Nick: That is rude, especially with that tone.
Leah: I don't even know what that was. I'm just really trying out new things.
Nick: [Giggling] Okay. Our next question is-
Leah: What does this have to do with water? I was just trying to think of something-
Leah: No, no, it's a great question. I just wanted to explain ... I was trying to think of something-
Leah: -outside of this conversation, where there were words that people use to signify what something means.
Leah: So, I think tap water is a way of saying, "I don't have bottled water. I don't use a Brita."
Nick: That's not code, though. That's just the actual words.
Leah: I don't have a one- I don't have this thing where you magically stick your glass in the fridge, and it comes out ...
Nick: Okay. Pretty sure it's not magic, but ...
Leah: I mean, it's pretty magic.
Leah: I love it! You have two different kinds of ice cubes? Ugh!
Nick: Wait, what are you talking about?
Leah: You know, that you have crushed ice, or you can have ice cubes-
Nick: Oh, you're talking about ... Do you have a water thing on your fridge?
Leah: No, I'm saying outside of New York City, people have this.
Nick: Oh, I was gonna say, like, I don't have that. What an amenity!
Leah: No, but it's on my dream board.
Nick: Oh, I know. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah. People out there, not in New York? The things that you take for granted! Garbage disposals!
Leah: Oh, my goodness!
Nick: A washer and dryer in your home?
Leah: Stop it!
Nick: A fridge that has a dispenser?
Leah: Getting out of both sides of your bed? The list ...
Nick: [Giggling] Okay. Our next question is: " This weekend, my boyfriend and I were waiting for a table at a restaurant with a 45-minute wait. We were seated at the bar having a drink while we waited, as the horseshoe-shaped bar had some available seats. While there were booths around the bar area, that was not open seating, as evidenced by the Please Wait to be Seatedsigns everywhere. After waiting for nearly 30 minutes, we saw an older couple perched at one of the six-person booths in the bar area. At first, they seemed to just be waiting there since the area near the hostess stand was crowded. However, once the very confused busboy cleared the table, they settled in, grabbed a menu, and ordered when the waitress came by. I, of course, was abhorred! Not only did they walk right in and sit down, but they were actually served despite being in clear view of the hostess stand. So, what say you? Was it up to the waiter to say something? The hostess? Should we have spoken up? What would you do?"
Leah: Seems very straightforward, but I think it's loaded.
Nick: Oh! An etiquette crime has been committed!
Leah: Oh, definitely, but I think it's complicated.
Nick: I don't feel it's complicated. Here's my not-complicated answer - you alert the hostess, and you let them know what has just happened, so they can correct the problem. You have done things the correct way. You were in the queue. That could've been your table! I think we do not let this go, and I think you do not confront the couple, but we do take it to management and be like, "Oh, I don't think these people realize that this was not open seating ..."
Leah: I think we take it to management politely.
Nick: Yes. Oh, for sure. Not accusatory.
Leah: Yeah, I think we don't assume that the hostess wasn't paying attention. Sometimes, there's so much- I was recently in line ... You know those lines where there's one line but it's going to multiple cashiers?
Nick: Oh, I hate that.
Leah: This person came in from the side, not seeing this other ... It wasn't that the cashiers weren't paying attention when that person skipped. It's that they were focusing on what they were doing.
Leah: So, I'm not gonna get angry.
Nick: Yeah, we want to have a tone, which is like, "A mistake has happened. Very innocent. People don't realize a mistake has happened. I noticed there was a mistake. Let's correct the mistake."
Leah: The person behind me got mad at me because they were like, "Aren't you gonna yell at them?" I was like, "They're across the room. I'm not, actually. I don't have it in me. If you wanna yell out that that person skipped, you have at it."
Leah: I'm just gonna let it slide because that's easier for me.
Nick: Yeah. That's a good question, though. Put a pin in that!
Leah: Because I had- I would've had to have screamed!
Nick: What is the correct distance to yell at somebody? [Laughing] We'll tackle that another day. But for this, I think, let's assume that this older couple did not realize what they were doing, even though the way the letter is presented, it feels malicious. But let's assume, for the moment, that it was an innocent mistake. Hopefully, they would be mortified to discover it and will be delighted to wait somewhere else.
Nick: You think this is more complicated?
Leah: No, I do think it's important, though, to give everybody the benefit of the doubt.
Nick: I think that is always the nice, safe option in this situation.
Leah: We'll give the hostess the benefit of the doubt that they were otherwise occupied?
Leah: Then, also that the older couple ... Some people just need to sit down.
Nick: Yeah. No, I get how we got here.
Leah: Maybe they are actually the owners of the restaurant-
Nick: Uhhh ... Sure ...
Leah: These are the things I tell myself.
Leah: But I think, yeah, you just go over to the hostess.
Nick: Yeah, I think we do that. Now, chances are, the hostess will maybe not do anything.
Leah: Yeah. They're not going to do anything, if they've already ordered.
Nick: Yeah, and chances are, the hostess may be hostile at you for wasting her time with this, but I think you've still gotta do it for your own peace of mind.
Nick: To know that you've been wronged, and you want to try and correct it. Okay, our next question is: "My workplace recently held a morning tea fundraiser. As a tea hoarder, I offered to bring in my excess teas. This was on the understanding that I would take home any leftovers at the end of the day. Two days later, I walked past someone's desk and noticed that they had some of the tea that I brought. Obviously, I didn't mind people drinking the tea. I just wasn't expecting people to help themselves for tea they'd save for later. I know I shouldn't care because I already have more tea than any human should reasonably have in their kitchen, but something about this just irks me."
Leah: I would like to say, up top, that I love the idea that they're having a tea party.
Leah: This is so fun.
Nick: How nice! So, for me, I was thinking about this, and it feels like when you're at a hotel breakfast buffet, and you take a banana for later. Is that okay? Right? Here are things that we've provided to you for your enjoyment at this moment, for this breakfast.
Leah: It's not that.
Nick: For this- you don't think it's that?
Leah: No, because what the specific difference is, is that she brought tea from her personal collection.
Nick: So ...
Leah: So, it would be as if we were at a hotel, and I brought bananas from home.
Nick: Then, at breakfast, you said, "Here, have a banana. I'm going to leave some bananas out. I'm going to take all these with me, if you don't want bananas right now," and I took two bananas.
Leah: It would be as if you said, "These are my bananas from home that I want to share with people."
Leah: As soon as *"from home"* is said, you would assume that people then are reacting within the way, like, "Oh, this is something that somebody is sharing with me. I'm not taking extra."
Leah: Whereas, at a hotel, you've paid to spend the night, or your company has paid to spend the night. It's a part of the deal that you bring stuff back to your room.
Nick: So, put a pin in that. That is a very hot topic-
Leah: Is it?
Nick: -whether or not you're allowed to take a stuff back to your room - if that's okay or not. We'll get to that another day. But for this, would it be different for you if the office had supplied the tea?
Nick: It would feel different because it feels like, "Oh, this is an office thing that we're doing."
Leah: This is something that somebody is sharing as a personal thing they have from home that they enjoy very much.
Nick: So, what's a good equivalent thing? What's a- like, I brought cookies from home. I pass around cookies, and you took two cookies, and you didn't eat one right now, and you saved a cookie for later?
Leah: What it is, is the person should've asked. "I love this tea. May I take two?"
Nick: Oh, yeah. That would have been the nicest thing.
Leah: I think once you bring something for a group, at that point, it's- you have to accept that people are going to take stuff.
Nick: Oh, in an office?
Nick: Oh, yeah, if it's not bolted down ...
Leah: So, what would've been nice is if somebody brings something to share, and you love it, if you ask the person, "May I take two?"
Nick: Like, "Oh, this Oolong is so tasty! May I have two packs?" Okay.
Leah: That's what I think is [crosstalk] because this person is sharing, and somebody's sort of-
Nick: Taking advantage.
Leah: Yeah, taking advantage of somebody sharing something.
Leah: I think that's what the feeling is. It's feeling like they're being ... Their kindness was overstepped.
Nick: Because, also, what's happened is I've taken two; I've taken advantage of your generosity; and I didn't say thank you.
Leah: I didn't say thank you.
Nick: That's what it is.
Leah: I feel like if this person had said thank you, I get the feeling that our tea person loves tea so much that they would love to share with somebody who loves tea.
Leah: That's what my take-away from this read is.
Nick: Even if it was sort of a retroactive thank you - it was like you took the two packs and then, the next day, you said, "I love that Oolong so much, I took two packs."
Leah: "Hope that's okay. I really love it. Thank you."
Nick: That feels like similar world of okayness?
Nick: Yeah, but if I baked cookies, and I brought them into the office, and, "Oh, have a cookie; everyone have a cookie ..." and you took two cookies and saved one for later, is this the same thing?
Leah: It feels slightly different.
Nick: Right? But why does it feel different? Because it shouldn't be different.
Leah: Maybe because it's packaged, and I can still take it home?
Nick: Okay ... Packaging; single-serve nature of it all.
Leah: It does feel different, though, right?
Nick: It does feel different, yeah, because it cookies feel like, "Oh, no problem ..." right.
Leah: I guess, to me, it feels like people will say, "Oh, do you have gum?"
Nick: Okay ...
Leah: I'll say, "Yes, I have gum."
Leah: Then, people take two pieces.
Nick: How ... What?!
Leah: I've often had people take two - boop-boop - pieces because some people are too-
Nick: Like Chiclets, or sticks, or does it not matter?
Leah: I've had it happen in both circumstances, and I'm a two-piece-of-gum person, myself.
Leah: I don't mind if you take two pieces. I'm sharing my gum. But you need to ask me first.
Nick: Oh, yeah, you don't ...
Leah: Just ask me. I'm gonna say yes!
Nick: Right, but don't do it without permission.
Leah: Don't do it without permission.
Nick: Interesting. I didn't know about the gum thing.
Leah: Yeah, it happens.
Nick: I mean ... I feel like I learn a lot about gum on this show.
Leah: Or like people pop gum out, and then, when they're popping out the second or third one, they'll be like, "Oh, do you mind if I take some?"
Leah: Well, it's already out.
Nick: Yeah, I mean, we've broken the seal.
Leah: But, of course, I don't mind.
Leah: It's not the last piece of gum in the entire world.
Nick: But ...
Leah: There is more gum. Just ask me.
Nick: But the principle of the thing, yeah.
Leah: Just ask me.
Nick: Yeah. Okay. I think that is the best equivalent here.
Leah: So, I think what our letter-writer is feeling is unappreciated.
Nick: That is the end of the day of the sentiment, yes.
Leah: I don't know how you feel better about that, except to say that- because it's not like you can go over and be like, "Oh, did you enjoy my tea?"
Nick: I mean, that's the instinct. Be like, "Oh, I see you enjoyed my tea."
Leah: That is the instinct.
Leah: But, I mean, I don't know if that's something that we, here at Were You Raised by Wolves, would say is appropriate.
Nick: It's hard to do that in a nice way.
Leah: I mean, the way to do it is by going like, "Oh, that's my favorite tea. I'm glad you enjoy it." But that's not what you're saying. You're saying, "Hey, shoulda said thank you."
Nick: [Giggling] Right.
Leah: It's Nick and I's new commitment to being-
Nick: But polite.
Leah: But polite.
Nick: I guess it's hard to find the right language in this situation.
Leah: But it is ... I think this person is wondering if what they're feeling is inappropriate because they were like, "I get that I have other tea. It's no big deal. So, why do I feel bad?" I think you feel bad because somebody was not being gracious.
Leah: And you were just sharing.
Nick: Yeah. So, your feelings are valid and appropriate in this situation.
Leah: I think people do appreciate that you share.
Nick: Yes. I don't think you should be discouraged from bringing more tea to the office.
Leah: You're lovely!
Nick: [Giggling] You're lovely! All tea drinkers are lovely, I think.
Leah: That is true.
Leah: So funny. My mom only- my mom is a huge tea drinker, but she has one type of tea that she likes, and it's not even a fancy tea. It's Red Rose tea.
Leah: It's just so funny because she's like, "Is that Red Rose?" you know what I mean? [Laughing] So, I get people love their tea bags.
Nick: Yeah, so you like what you like.
Leah: You like what you like!
Nick: We like you guys sending us questions!
Leah: We love it!
Nick: So, please send us more questions. Send them to us through our website, wereyouraisedbywolves.com, or you can slip into our DMs, or you can text us, or you can leave us a voicemail. (267) CALL-RBW (267-225-5729). Or, if you know Leah, and me, personally, you have our number, and like a lot of our friends, you're just asking us stuff all day long, now.
Nick: So, that's the life we live now.
Leah: We are not complaining!
Nick: No! We love it. So, send them in!
Leah: Please! We love it so much!
Nick: We're back, and now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.
Leah: Vent or Repent! [Exuberant singing]
Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette thing we've experienced this week, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So, Leah, would you like to vent or repent?
Leah: I'm gonna repent.
Nick: [Gasping] What?
Nick: What did you do?
Nick: Oh, God ...
Leah: -have, on multiple occasions, mentioned-
Nick: Uh-huh ...
Leah: -that you do not like talking in elevators.
Nick: It's true.
Leah: On the way to meet you today-
Leah: -we were in an elevator.
Nick: You were.
Leah: And there were two other people.
Nick: Yeah ...
Leah: And I talked to them.
Leah: I realized, as we were getting out the elevator, that I did that-
Leah: -when you have very specifically said-
Nick: I don't care for that.
Leah: -you don't care for that.
Leah: I just couldn't hamper down my need to have a meet and greet.
Nick: Okay. Sometimes, you just wanna say hello to strangers.
Leah: I just wanted to say hello to strangers-
Leah: -because they were going in the wrong direction. Then we got in, and I just like to make a little, "Oh, elevators!"
Nick: Yes. You don't wanna be hostile to your fellow passengers, so it's okay to have a head nod; a hello. The extended conversation, I don't care for.
Leah: I know, and this is the second time I've done it, so it's why ...
Nick: Uh-huh. So, we're not [crosstalk]
Leah: Because remember, last time, we were going down the elevator.
Leah: I kept talking until I realized, "Oh, Nick has brought this up."
Leah: So, then, I zipped my lips.
Nick: Yeah. Too late, but here we are.
Leah: So, I'm repenting.
Nick: Thank you.
Leah: You don't need to say, "Too late." I'm repenting.
Nick: Okay [Laughing]
Leah: I'm trying to change my behavior for you!
Nick: Okay. Well, hopefully, the third elevator ride's a charm.
Leah: Hopefully, by the third elevator, I'll have numbed your feelings so much that you'll just start talking to them!
Nick: Good luck!
Nick: So, for me, I would like to vent. This happened at the theater. I was recently seeing Diana - the musical about Princess Diana - which was an entertaining theatrical experience. We all know about the cell phone at the theater. We all are very clear about turning off our phones.
Nick: And not even putting it on vibrate, but let's power it down. Let's just turn it off.
Leah: Turn it off!
Nick: But let's talk about smart watches. I think we need to remind ourselves that Apple Watch, Fitbits, all the rest ... These things blink!
Leah: Oh, yeah ...
Nick: These things chime! These things alert! These things go off when you have your hands up, and you're clapping. These things go off when you're coughing in your hand. These things go off-
Leah: Also, you should be coughing in your arm.
Nick: You should also be coughing into your elbow. Also that. So, I was at the theater. The person next to me had a Apple Watch, and it was just going off every five seconds. Because we're just so trained to always look at the alerts, he brought up his wrist every time to see, like, "Oh, what is this text message? What is this whatever?" throughout the entire show. So, I found that very distracting-
Nick: -and I did not care for that, and that is my vent.
Leah: Nick did not care for that!
Nick: Did not! So, if you're at the theater, you power down your phone; but power down anything else that you have that's electronic that makes noise, or does stuff!
Leah: It's such a good point!
Nick: Yeah, so please do that.
Nick: So, Leah, what have we learned?
Leah: I learned there is a pope ... No-
Nick: [Laughing] A bishop!
Leah: A bishop!
Nick: A bishop!
Leah: I learned that there's a Bishop of Norwich.
Leah: I mean, I ... There wasn't even a seed of knowledge that maybe I'd heard of; you know what I mean? There wasn't even I coulda guessed.
Leah: I learned a whole new ... I even learned about a window into- I didn't even know there was a window.
Leah: So fun!
Nick: So, yeah-
Leah: I learned about where it came from!
Leah: Because there was a sleepy man!
Nick: Yeah. Who knew?!
Leah: So cool!
Nick: And I learned that- two things. One, that there's a lot of naked drive-thru going on.
Leah: Oh wow.
Nick: I mean, who knew? Then, gum. I am constantly learning stuff about gum on this show! You know, bathroom-attendant gum. Today, I learned that people take two pieces without asking-
Leah: People take your gum!
Nick: Didn't know! So, thank you, Leah.
Leah: Thank you, Nick!
Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. If I had your address, I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery. Please follow the show on Facebook, and Instagram. And now, we want you to become a member.
Nick: Please! So, join us on Patreon. You can learn more about it on our website. Just click Membership, and you can learn about what being a member is all about.
Leah: So fun!
Nick: So, please do that, and we'll see you next time!
[Musical Theme Song]
Nick: All right, Leah, it's time for Cordials of Kindness.
Leah: [Singing] Which I forced on Nick!
Nick: And I only give her 30 seconds to say nice things about other people. So, go!
Leah: I absolutely love when people write us nice reviews.
Nick: Very nice.
Leah: So nice! This one, I just thought was particularly funny because it was like the person was coming in ... This is what they wrote. They said: "I first heard of this podcast when I saw Leah on The Colbert Show." [whispering] Thank you so much!. "I was disappointed at first to find out that this was a podcast about etiquette, and I thought, eww, how boring! I couldn't have been more wrong. I love listening to the two of you talk about how people should behave in certain situations. You do it in such a fun way, and it's so entertaining. The other night, I couldn't sleep, and I listened to almost all of the past episodes, and I was never bored. Thanks for the great work and keep it up."
Leah: Isn't that so sweet? I also love the idea that, sometimes, I can't sleep, and I know what I listen to.
Nick: Not us! [Laughing]
Leah: But I think it's so nice that somebody would find us happy, and calming, and ...
Leah: I also love that this person very clearly was like, "I was sure this wasn't gonna be my thing, and I liked it anyway."
Nick: I'll take that!
Leah: It's like a triple compliment, and thank you for watching me on Colbert. I really appreciate it.
Nick: So, for me, I want to give a shout out to this woman, Deborah, who writes our transcripts. So, you may not know that we actually create a written transcript of every episode. I do it because some people have hearing problems, or just find it more convenient to read it, or whatever.
Leah: So great.
Nick: So, you know, we create transcripts, and these are not easy to do because, if you listen to Leah, and me, we do not necessarily speak in proper English, useful sentences ... We say weird things, and so ...
Leah: [Best laugh ever]
Nick: So, poor Deborah, she has her hands full, but she does a great job every week creating these transcripts for us. She always mentions things that she thought were actually particularly funny to her-
Leah: Deborah, you're the best.
Nick: -that we use for our Instagram. If you wonder, "Oh, where do those quotes come from?" Very often, Deborah mentions what she thought was fun, so we use those. So, thanks, Deborah. We really appreciate your efforts and are happy to have you part of our Wolfpack.
Leah: Thank you, Deborah! And thank you, Nick, for honestly always being on top of everything and being like, "You know what? We should also transcribe this."
Nick: We should do that, and we do! So, we do.
Leah: You're amazing.
Nick: Thank you.
Leah: Thank you!
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