Mowing Lawns Without Asking, Coordinating Invitation Responses, Dressing for Theme Weddings, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is quote, "A few weeks ago, our neighbor—let's call him Chad—unexpectedly mowed half of our front lawn while mowing his. My husband and I were shocked. We've had a neighborly relationship with them. Just the usual, 'hey, how's it going?' But nothing more. To be fair, our grass was a bit overgrown that day, as we've been busy launching a new business and haven't been home much during daylight hours. Normally, my husband takes pride in maintaining the yard, and doesn't even let me mow it because he's so particular. My dad's the same way, so I get it. So while the grass was a little long that day, it wasn't an eyesore. Still, it was a surprise to come home and see only half of the yard cut. I assumed Chad was trying to be helpful and told my husband so. My husband disagreed, saying if Chad meant well, he would have finished the job and cleaned up properly, as we do. The other day, I saw Chad for the first time since this happened, and I didn't mention the lawn. It felt awkward. Part of me wanted to say thanks, but I knew my husband wouldn't want that, as it might imply we appreciated it. So my questions are: Was Chad being rude to cut our lawn without our permission? What should I have said when I saw him? And should my husband have addressed it when it first happened?"

Leah: And then they sent us a picture.

Nick: And then they sent us a picture. So yes, we have an illustration.

Leah: Which I'm glad we have an illustration because what I was thinking when we got the question versus what—when I saw the picture ...

Nick: So for our listeners, describe the photo.

Leah: So it's a Google image, street view.

Nick: Yes, they sent us a Google Street View image of these houses.

Leah: And it's essentially the land shared is in between the two driveways, between the two houses.

Nick: Yes. So in between the houses, there's a piece of lawn. And I guess the property line runs down the center of this lawn.

Leah: And so Chad mowed all that.

Nick: Yes, Chad went beyond the property line and just mowed the entire lawn section, the whole thing. And interestingly, in the Google Street View image they sent, you can actually see the property line in the lawn because they are different heights of grass in this photo.

Leah: Yes, they are.

Nick: So we do have different mowing schedules happening, I think, fairly regularly.

Leah: And it's a beautiful green. Lovely grass.

Nick: Lovely. Oh, yeah. This actually looks like a really—yeah. No, we're really kind of nailing it with the mulching? I don't know how grass works.

Leah: Y'all have great grass.

Nick: They just have great grass. Yeah, this is great grass. So Chad decided to go beyond the property line and just mow this entire section—your side and my side. Which on some level, makes sense, because it should just probably all just, like, be the same type of lawn. Let's not have, like, this weird visible property line going down the lawn. So, like, on some level, I understand why that makes sense.

Leah: I mean, that's a discussion, though. We don't go onto people's property.

Nick: Right. Right. That's a discussion, because otherwise that is trespassing.

Leah: That's trespassing. Also, you don't know what I want with my lawn.

Nick: Right, yes. Yes, that is also a very key detail here.

Leah: Because isn't there a time of year where people actually, on purpose, let their grass grow to, like, feed birds?

Nick: Oh, that's true. Yes. There are times when we actually don't want to, like, pull up the grass clippings. We want to leave them. Or there's some—yes. This is so outside of ...

Leah: I was gonna say neither Nick or I have a lawn. And I heard it once, and it just popped into my brain. And obviously, no research has been done, but you know what we're talking about.

Nick: Yeah. No, listeners, if you're wondering why we never talk about ikebana or plants or, like, there—it just—this is the one area that I have zero knowledge. I just don't know anything about gardening, plants. You know, where does food come from? I don't know.

Leah: My mother is gonna be so mortified. She's such an incredible gardener, and I'm like, "What's dirt?"

Nick: [laughs] So I do know, though, that people do have very strong feelings about their lawn, how they want it done, what they feel is correct. And to just mow someone else's lawn? That's not done. We don't live in that world. That's never okay.

Leah: We don't live in that world.

Nick: No. Also, there is this thing in etiquette, which is the unsolicited favor. And whenever a favor is unsolicited, it often is an etiquette crime, because we don't necessarily want favors done for us unsolicited.

Leah: No, because it also feels like a comment.

Nick: Oh, it's often a comment. Yes. Which is, "You don't know how to take care of your lawn."

Leah: I also want to say as a side step—and then—I feel so proud of our letter-writer where she said, "I saw my neighbor for the first time, and I wanted to say something to sort of, like, clear the air, you know, make it comfortable." And then didn't say anything.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I actually was just talking to Nick earlier about how hard it is to not say something when you want to fill the air and just make it comfortable.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I think, good for you.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You feel really proud of yourself for being like, "I'm not gonna, you know, just make this okay."

Nick: Well, we also don't want this to happen again.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: So by saying thank you, that definitely sends the signal, like, oh, that was appreciated. So yeah, your instinct is correct here to, like, not say thank you. Now should the husband have said something as soon as it happened? Yeah. If he doesn't want this happening again, then, yeah, I think something should be said. And that could be polite and nice, but, like, I think we want to address it.

Leah: Also, I do understand sometimes why it's hard not to say something right away, because you gotta process it. You're like, "What happened?" You know, because sometimes something will happen and I go, "I'm gonna sit with this a little bit in case how I feel about it tomorrow isn't the way I feel right now." You know?

Nick: Also, you did a favor for me, but then you did it badly. Like, you didn't clean up properly. So, like, did you mow and then just, like, leave it a mess? Is that what happened? Then it's like, oh, now you've created more work for me.

Leah: Also, it just feels like Chad is saying, "Hey, I want the lawn around my house to be a certain way."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "And so I'm going to go ahead and do that, even though half of that lawn is legally not mine."

Nick: Yes. And I think this is an easy conversation, which is like, "Hey, do you want to take turns just mowing this entire piece between us?" Or, "How do you want the lawn kept between us?" Or, "What should we do as neighbors here to make this make sense?" And, like, that's an easy conversation, because I think we can come to some consensus.

Leah: Yeah, you could go over and say, "Hey, we noticed you mowed half our lawn." And then what Nick said. Or you could go over and say, "Hey, we're actually growing our lawn out for the birds, even though I don't know what that is, but I know it's a thing." And just be like, "So please don't do that."

Nick: Or like, "Hey, totally appreciate the gesture. Just know for next time, like, we're a little particular about how we like the lawn cut. So just, like, FYI, just, like, give us a heads up next time.

Leah: I don't know how our letter-writer feels. I don't want them to give me a heads up. I don't want them to mow my lawn.

Nick: Well, if you do it the way I do it and you clean up after yourself and you're saving me the trouble, I'm not necessarily against that if it's sort of to my specifications. But if you just decide, like, you're gonna mow it the way you want to do it, which is not the way I want it done, well, then I don't like that. Like, I mean, if you're truly just like doing me a total favor and it's something I would do anyway, then okay. Like, if you're gonna do my laundry and you're gonna do it exactly the way I like it, you're gonna separate it exactly the way I separate it, you're gonna hang dry exactly the things I, like, hang dry then, like, okay, I'm not gonna tell somebody, like, "Oh, don't do my laundry exactly the way I would do it." But, like, you're not gonna do it the way I do it. So that's why I don't want you doing it, because I know you can't do it right. So I guess that's the same issue with, like, the grass.

Leah: I guess I want to know from our letter-writer if there is a conversation if they don't mind this person mowing.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think our letter-writer doesn't mind, but the husband does. And so given that, yeah, some conversation's required because this will happen again.

Leah: Yeah, definitely go over and have a little convo.

Nick: And as they say, "Good fences make good neighbors."

Leah: Obviously cannot put a fence in the middle of that lawn.

Nick: Uh ...

Leah: That would be wild.

Nick: Well, then stop mowing my lawn without my permission, otherwise I'm gonna put a 10-foot chain link fence up there.

Leah: Nick!

Nick: Yeah! Barbed wire.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And electrified. I'll do it. Don't make me do it. So our next question is quote, "I'm writing to you for advice I hope will settle a marital issue. I know how Leah loves a marital issue. We receive email invitations. It could be for a dinner out or an activity or dinner at a friend's house. My husband is very prompt—within hours—to respond whether or not he's available and saying he'll leave it up to me to respond whether I'm available. We are generally readily available to each other to discuss the invitation, but he immediately responds without consulting me. Here's a response he recently sent to somebody. 'June 6 is available to me. I'll let Lisa reply for herself. What time, what address, and can we bring something?' I object to his approach. I believe the invitation is for us as a couple. We should discuss the invitation and respond as a couple. I'm tempted to say I'm not available, and let him decide if he wants to go without me. This happens frequently, and I've suggested a joint response, but he just can't control himself. Please tell him to coordinate responses to invitations."

Leah: I'm sorry, Nick. I'm still not finished with the last question.

Nick: Okay, let's go back to the lawns.

Leah: I just—you know, I don't know if it's because I'm an only child. I don't want you touching my stuff. You know what I mean? And even if it's—you should have come over and talked to me about it.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: And you know that. You're an adult who owns property. You're making a comment. And I want to mow my lawn when I want to mow it, and I've been busy and not home, but that's not for you to make a decision about.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Because it's not your property.

Nick: Yeah. And my lawn was fine. It was not overgrown. Yes, it needs to be mowed but, like, it is not an abandoned property.

Leah: But even if it was overgrown, you still have absolutely no right to come onto my property. If you want to, as a neighbor, come over and be like, "Hey, I know you've been really busy—" and I mean, I still think this is dicey, but you want to come over and have a conversation about, "Hey, I'm happy to do this for you." That's a conversation. But you're not coming on my property.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I'm on board. I don't disagree with you at all.

Leah: I just needed to get it out.

Nick: Yeah. No, I—no, everybody agrees with you, Leah.

Leah: I just got real emotional about it all of a sudden, and I just want to make sure that ...

Nick: No, I think we all hear you. Everybody feels hurt.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Okay, so back to our married couple. And we have an invitation issue. And so ...

Leah: Now I can think about it with a clear mind.

Nick: Okay, good. Okay, so what do we do about this? We have a eager beaver who's very quick to respond to invitations solo.

Leah: I would want to—I love that our letter-writer says, "I know Leah loves a marital issue." I do!

Nick: And I guess what is the difference between an etiquette question and a marital question?

Leah: This—I mean, this is an etiquette question, but I think when it's a marital question, there's so much more—our letter-writers can't see us. I'm interweaving my fingers.

Nick: There's more of a tapestry.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: There's a weft.

Leah: It's just a beautifully woven—it's just thicker.

Nick: Yes, it is a heavy pile of fabric.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Okay. So I think from an etiquette perspective, invitations are sent to couples as a unit. So we invite the couple together, and then the response should also be sent as a unit. That is generally what is done. And so I think we do want a joint response. Now you can have different responses like, I can come, but you can't or whatever it is. But I think that needs to be one response. We are presenting a unified front.

Leah: And I think the way—because we've already said to our husband, "Hey, let's respond together. And then they—their knee-jerk reaction is they—they just respond.

Nick: "I'm coming!"

Leah: Yeah. So I would want to—this is how I would do it. This is how I've done it in the past, we'll just say that.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Because, like, the question is: Why does it feel important to you to respond right away? Like, what is it that makes the knee-jerk reaction?

Nick: Well, in etiquette world, it actually is very polite to respond to invitations promptly. So I love that instinct. I think that's very kind and respectful of your host. So okay ...

Leah: But the answer could also be like, maybe they feel like they want you to feel like a independent person, and you can go if you don't want to go. Maybe there's, like, a reason that we don't know about why they're responding so quickly.

Nick: Well, there's the why we're responding so quickly, but then there's the why I'm not responding on your behalf. So I think there—there is definitely another layer here which we do not have access to.

Leah: Which I think that that would—that's the conversation.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: "Hey, because I've said I want us to respond together. You seem to really not want to do that, so I would like to know why."

Nick: Yeah. So that goes above our pay grade.

Leah: But I feel like that's where I belong. That's the pay area I belong in.

Nick: [laughs] So I will opt out of that. But I think a good response would be if you have to respond immediately, like, if you just want to acknowledge this invitation is, "Thank you so much for the invitation. We're checking our schedules and we'll get back to you soon." So boom, I've sent a response. "Thank you for the invitation. I'm acknowledging it. That's great. We're gonna coordinate. We're gonna get back to you."

Leah: Yes. The thing is is if we don't deal with what the second issue of is why they feel the need to say just what they're doing, then that's not gonna make a difference.

Nick: Right. But, you know, that's not my problem.

Leah: Okay. Well, I like to get involved, but I do think we could discuss with our husband. Can you just say that? "Thanks for the invite."

Nick: Right.

Leah: "We'll coordinate. Get back to you."

Nick: A couple other things kind of caught my eye. One is that the follow-up questions are a little problematic. The "What time, what address, what can we bring?" Because you're putting your host on the spot when you actually haven't fully RSVPed. And so, like, I have to tell you the time, the date, I have to give you more details, but you actually haven't fully committed yet. I'm a little in between here. So I don't love that. I don't love that. And then also, are we issuing invitations where it is not clear where it is or what it is? Like, what is this invitation?

Leah: Well, what I imagine is like a friend sent a thing that was like, "Hey, we were gonna have a picnic next Saturday. Are you guys up for it?"

Nick: Okay. Picnic. Yeah, that would be a TBD location.

Leah: And then it's like a TBD and it's like—it's in the—you know it's in the afternoon, but you're like, "What, exactly? What time?"

Nick: Okay, I will—I will allow it. I will allow it. But it would be nicer if, like, the invitation was like, parentheses (Memorial Park, 3:00 pm.) Be nice to get a little detail in that original invitation.

Leah: Well, I'm sure that this—this is just the most recent one that happened. I'm sure there have been other invitations with other—you know, that's not really what the question is about.

Nick: No, I'm just nitpicking.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So I go, "What? That's so weird. Nick, what are you doing? Oh, so out of character." So letter-writer, I do believe you're correct. I think it would be nice to present a unified response to all invitations. It just makes it easier on your host because now they're just dealing with one RSVP to deal with as opposed to, like, half.

Leah: I agree with Nick.

Nick: Great.

Leah: I think you should try the idea, like, can you just say, "Got it. We'll discuss it. Thanks for the invite. We'll get back to you." And if they really can't seem to control themselves, I would—them being your husband, I would then have that conversation about why is it? Like, because obviously we can all control ourselves. We're adults, you know? Unless it's around cookie dough, then I get it.

Nick: All bets are off.

Leah: All bets are off. But I mean, so there must be something. What is that thing? What is it?

Nick: Yeah. No, getting to the pith, the root of this issue. Yes, I think that's probably a conversation that's worth having.

Leah: And with no judgment. Just be like, "What is it? So I can understand." You know?

Nick: Right.

Leah: And then I'm tempted to say I'm not available and let him decide if he wants to go without me. Okay. Why not?

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's—I think that's fair. That would definitely be fair. Yeah. If you RSVP before letting me know, then that might be a consequence.

Leah: If we've tried all these other outlets and we really don't want to continue doing it this way, then that—that's our last option.

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "I work in a school where I share a small office with three other people. One of my office mates—let's call her Lisa—is incredibly kind and lovely, but there is one problem: she insists on knocking before entering the room—every single time. My desk faces away from the door, so whenever somebody knocks, I stop my work for a brief moment, turn around, look through the small window in our door, and wave them in. It's a miniscule inconvenience, but it's usually worth it because the person knocking is there to see me. When Lisa knocks, I still have to turn around, but she comes in right after and goes to her desk. At first I thought it was funny and quirky, but it is gradually driving me crazy because it breaks my focus for no good reason. But nobody else seems to be bothered by it besides me. I know I should just get over it or have a polite-yet-direct conversation with her. So my question for you is more general: What is the etiquette for entering a shared workspace? Should one knock on their own door? Aside from the initial morning greeting, should one try to be as inconspicuous as possible when their office mates are working?"

Leah: So as a person, when I get in my flow, if somebody interrupts me ...

Nick: It's not good.

Leah: It's not good because then you're out. Then you gotta get back in it.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Which sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can't even get back in it.

Nick: Flow is hard.

Leah: And it's not like she doesn't—isn't in that room. It's not like she's just stopping by. This is her room, too.

Nick: Yeah. It's her office. Yeah.

Leah: So I think we can just have a direct conversation. "Hey—" because I think that Lisa is doing this because somewhere along the line, she learned that this is the polite thing to do. I'm letting people know I'm coming in in case you're doing something.

Nick: Right.

Leah: So you know somebody's coming in.

Nick: Right. This is a good example of people doing a quote-unquote "polite" thing, which actually is impolite. Like, it's so "polite," quote-unquote, that it actually becomes actually inconvenient for everybody.

Leah: So I don't think it's a problem at all just to be like, "Hey, Lisa."

Nick: "Don't."

Leah: But not like the way Nick said it.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: "I appreciate that you always want to be polite and, like, be like, 'I'm coming in,' but if we could not—not knock before you walk in the door, just because it takes me out of my workflow."

Nick: Or you could even say—this might be too subtle, but you could say something along the lines of, like, "Oh, Lisa, this is your office too, and I want you to feel at home here. There's no need to knock." And make it more in that spirit, which is like, "Oh, no. We all share this space. We're all in it together. Like, don't feel like you're a guest here. This is your space, too."

Leah: I love that idea. My only worry is that she will be like, "Oh, it's just something I grew up doing." And then you're gonna have to be like, "Actually, it bothers me."

Nick: Yeah. "No, I need you to stop." [laughs] Yeah. Okay, maybe a little more direct. Yeah. Like, "No need to knock, you know, just enter quietly."

Leah: I mean, you could say "enter quietly," but I don't know if we need that part, because you would be like, "If you could just be quiet and tiptoe and pretend you don't exist, that would be the best way for you to enter this room." [laughs]

Nick: Although she probably actually is being pretty quiet about it.

Leah: I think she's being very quiet. It's just the knocking.

Nick: Right. And so okay, I think we do need to have a brief conversation with her about it. But the general question is that yeah, when it's your own shared workspace, I think you just want to, like, enter quietly. Let's not make, like, a huge fuss about it. I think if it's the first time that day and somebody is, like, not on the phone, you could say, "Hello." I think that's fine. If you're coming back, you know, you could make a little eye contact, which is like, "Hey, I'm back from lunch." But let's not say that. We could just sort of, like, have eye contact, which is like, "I acknowledge you. Hello." Little head nod.

Leah: Well also, our letter-writer's back is to the door. So it's—she has to do, like, a full ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: ... body movement.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think we don't want to make you have to turn around. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah, because you're shared—it's different if it's a guest who's never there and you gotta be like, "Hey, how are you?" But this is a person who's always coming in and out.

Nick: I do think, though, in the morning, the first time we see Lisa, we should turn around and have a good morning.

Leah: Yeah. I think a good morning is absolutely normal.

Nick: We have to acknowledge you once a day.

Leah: And I don't think our letter writer has a problem with that. My guess is just, like, every time they go out for a thing, they come back, they knock.

Nick: Yeah. Okay, so I think that's how we handle this.

Leah: Just a little quickie, and with no inflection in our voice. No biggie. Just letting them know, "Hey, no more with the knocking."

Nick: This reminds me of a fun thing in French. When you see somebody for the second time, you don't say, "bonjour." You say "re-bonjour." As in, like, "I'm re-helloing you." Re-bonjour. So maybe we should introduce re-hello to the English language. Like, "Oh, hello, Leah." "Oh, yes. Re-hello."

Leah: But in this situation, the re-hello is silent because she's like, "We've already said hello. We don't need the knock. We don't need the whole thing."

Nick: Yeah. So this is a sans bonjour situation. Right.

Leah: [laughs] Yes.

Nick: But don't you love the idea of, like, a re-hello? I like that.

Leah: I do like it.

Nick: Yeah. For the second time in a day when you're saying hi. Yeah, "Re-hi!"

Leah: I think we could just start doing it, and maybe it'll catch on.

Nick: Okay. All right, so something to add to our list of things we hope we'll catch on someday.

Leah: Yes. Let's put it on the list.

Nick: Okay. So our next question is quote, "Recently, a group that regularly meets at our house invited a new couple to join in. On the evening of the get together, the new couple was over 15 minutes late. We waited on them and discussed that we wanted to be polite, but how long do you have to wait on guests? Until the cows come home? Until the food is cold? I didn't want to embarrass them by calling, but as the hostess, I feel like I should have known what to do. Please advise, as this isn't the first time I've been in this situation."

Leah: Ugh!

Nick: Mmm. Oh, I have some thoughts.

Leah: I love cows. That's my first thought.

Nick: Interesting. Interesting that that is your first thought for this question. Okay. Until the cows come home.

Leah: I've just been in a place where I'm like, I need to have an animal sanctuary when I'm older. And I will take cows that have been in, like, dairy farms and need a break.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So but that's just—I'm just throwing that out to our listeners. If they have a plot of land where they were like, "This would be great for an animal sanctuary," let me know.

Nick: All right. Yeah. Leah Bonnema is looking for land for cows.

Leah: I also take some goats, maybe a sheep. You know, dogs. Anyway ...

Nick: All right, so can we help this person in the meantime?

Leah: Yes. I do think that at 10 minutes, A) I'm so sorry. How irritating. And B) I think at 10 minutes you could send a text. "Where you at?"

Nick: Oh, interesting! Oh, okay. Wow. So I have a very different sort of take on this. So we have some assumptions to make here. One is that we're in the United States.

Leah: We're in the United States because they said "until the cows come home."

Nick: Oh, that's a good context clue. Yeah. Oh, listeners who are abroad, do you use this expression? Is this a Canadian thing? No. Well, they have cows. Alberta.

Leah: Yeah, but I don't know if the cows in Alberta come home because they feel like the cows in Alberta are on a much—they're out running.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But it's funny that that's how I imagine Alberta cows. They're not coming home. They're hanging out.

Nick: I'm just picturing the stampede in Calgary. That's what I have in my head.

Leah: I think that Canada and the United States—and I may get letters about this. I think that we would—Canadians in a—and people in the United States would respond similarly to a 15-minute time delay. As somebody who went to school in Canada, I feel like I'm allowed to maybe feel that way.

Nick: Okay. I mean, we could put a pin in the differences between the United States and Canada when it comes to entertaining, because Canada definitely leans more British than we do when it comes to certain things. But yes, timing for dinner parties, I think very similar. We are also assuming that this is a dinner party because we are talking about food getting cold. And so this is a dinner party invitation, so I think that's also an important sort of baseline.

Leah: Yeah. It's not like a hangout cocktail.

Nick: Right, right. And so we have a dinner party. We've invited a new couple. And so I just have mostly questions. So I guess the question is: Was it clear in the invitation that, like, dinner is at 7:00? Because I think these are new people to our group, they may have thought, like, "Oh, there's gonna be a cocktail hour," or "7:00 really means 7:30. We don't want to be, you know, too early. Fifteen minutes, that's sort of a fashionably late—" even though that's not really a thing and people shouldn't do that, but— "15 minutes is a good buffer. And so, like, that makes sense for us. And we didn't realize this was actually a the-dinner-gong-strikes-at-7:00 kind of thing." So maybe that's a question that needs to be answered? Like, what did they know about the invitation?

Leah: I think that's a great point because I was making the assumption, based on the food getting cold, that everybody was told dinner is at six.

Nick: Right. And our letter-writer says that this is not the first time they've been in this situation. And I don't like to criticize our letter writers, but ...

Leah: I feel it coming.

Nick: ... you should not have a start time that is so fixed. I think it would be a good idea to have a bit of a cheese and nibbles, a little ease into the dinner hour. I think we need a little preamble. I think, you know, clearly the idea of a hard start, which is your guest arrival time, and that's when the first course is served, you know, you might be cutting it a little tight. And so maybe we want to have a little more leisurely start to this, a little ramp up, a little aperativo, something.

Leah: I wasn't imagining that when our letter-writer said that this has happened multiple times, I wasn't imagining that it was always in the same situation. I was thinking—I was also visualizing them at a restaurant and the people were late. Like, this is—so they were like, "How does this get handled across the board?" Which is why I was like, I would just send a text. But I like what you're saying, where if this is always happening in the same situation, maybe we gotta set it up different.

Nick: Yes. I mean, often the etiquette solution to etiquette problems is to make changes to prevent the etiquette crime from happening in the first place. And so by adding a little buffer at the front end of some cocktails and nibbles before we go into the dining room for dinner, that might help us. Emily Post does have an official ruling on this. She says quote, "A polite hostess waits 20 minutes after the dinner hour, and then orders dinner served. To wait more than 20 minutes, or actually 15 after those who took the allowable five minutes' grace would be showing lack of consideration to many for the sake of one." So Emily's like, you get 15-minutes grace after the initial five-minute grace. Which brings us to 20 minutes.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Do you disagree?

Leah: No. It just really reminded me of a Star Trek moment with the good of the many.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: And then they go back for Spock anyway. Which I sobbed. But it really matters whether or not the couple was told it was a dinner at 6:00.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I can imagine the invitation was, "Hey, come over for dinner at 6:00." Although if I got an invitation that said, "Oh, come over for dinner at 6:00," I would be there at 6:05.

Leah: You wouldn't be there at 6:05, Nick. Stop kidding yourself. You would be there at 5:59. You would wait a minute outside and then you would come in.

Nick: I mean, I wouldn't not do that.

Leah: Thank you.

Nick: I don't know. Yeah, it would depend whether or not being exactly on time was considered polite and appreciated, I guess. Between 6:00 and 6:05 somewhere, my finger is hovering over the intercom in that window. Right.

Leah: I guess in my mind, because all the other couples were there, it was somehow established that this is the time that this happens.

Nick: Right. Yes. And this couple just didn't know it.

Leah: And I have no problem just sending people, like, "Where you at? What time you think you're gonna get here?" Just so I know what's going on in their brain.

Nick: Uh, yes. I mean ...

Leah: "Did you not realize? Are you late? Is. Did something happen?" You know what I mean? Just keep me posted. What time are you getting here so I can make my plans?

Nick: Well I mean, I feel like at 20 minutes we're gonna start dinner. And when they come in, I think we just sort of say, like, "Oh, I was sure you wouldn't want us to wait." And then they just join in. I guess that's kind of how that would go down. And depending on who your host is and what kind of dinner this is, you technically should join in at the course that is currently happening. That would be kind of probably polite. Although a nice host would let you start at the beginning with the first course and would try to catch you up. So that depends on how fancy a dinner it is. Emily would probably let you, like, start with the first course. Stricter hosts would be like, "Nope, we're on the dessert course now, so that's what you're having."

Leah: I'd be like, "I ate yours."

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. "It was so good." But yeah, to call? I mean, I'm not gonna call at 10 minutes or text. I guess—I guess is this a texting relationship or is this a phone call relationship? And I guess if the invitation was very clear about what was supposed to happen, then "Hey, just are you on your way?"

Leah: I guess I don't have dinner parties where, like, we serve dinner at a specific time. I have parties where people come, and then it's sort of like there's casual up top, and then maybe we'll have dinner a little later.

Nick: Right. Yeah. So we don't have this issue.

Leah: So all I can compare this to is if I was at a restaurant and we were all waiting to eat, and if you were past 10 minutes, I would text and I'd be like, "Are you coming?"

Nick: Yes, because it is clear. "Oh, the reservation's at 6:00."

Leah: At 6:00.

Nick: And that is clear to everybody what that means, which is we arrive at 6:00 and we are now waiting on you. Yes. Okay. Yeah, for that, 10 minutes feels like I'll text you at 10 minutes.

Leah: Yeah, because that's a—that's a—like, if you're sitting at a table and there are waiters and they're like, "Are you putting in an order?" You know what I mean? 10 minutes is a substantial amount of time.

Nick: That's a long time. Yeah, I wouldn't do it at five, but yeah, at the ten-minute mark if we haven't heard from you, then yeah. Okay. So yeah, do we want to translate the restaurant rule to home? Yeah, I guess we could. Yeah, I guess it was real clear that, like, dinner's at 6:00. There is no cocktail hour. The dinner gong is at 6:00.

Leah: You are correct, though, we are missing some information. What was the invite?

Nick: Yeah, I think we need to see the invitation. Yeah, I think we need to see the invitation because I think this couple was not intending to be rude. I think they thought—also, it sounds like because the couple was over 15 minutes late, they did arrive eventually at around the 15-minute mark. It wasn't 20, because I think our letter-writer would have said 20. So they arrived between 15 and 20 minutes, right?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: So I think for this couple, they didn't think they were arriving late. They thought they were arriving at the appropriate time for the event.

Leah: Yeah, I don't think they did it on purpose. I think they were just misinformed in their mind.

Nick: And if you had texted them at the 10-minute mark, which is like, "Where are you?" they would have found that quite strange. Which would've been like, "Oh, I thought it was sort of like people are gathering at 6:00 for dinner."

Leah: Well, then I—but I mean, that would clear it up.

Nick: Yeah, that would definitely clear it up.

Leah: That's the thing about just asking. Then they know, "Oh, was it supposed to be at 6:00? I took it this way." And then you know why they did it, and then they know that's not how that works moving forward.

Nick: And let's just add a little cocktail hour. You know, cocktail half hour. Something. Just a little buffer. Just a little buffer.

Leah: Maybe in the invitation it says "There is no buffer."

Nick: No buffer.

Leah: Or the buffer could have been 5:30 to 6:00.

Nick: Oh, you think we missed the buffer?

Leah: And they missed the buffer. I mean, we don't know! We don't know!

Nick: Yeah, we—so many questions, so many questions. But I think we covered something with this.

Leah: I think we gave a lot of context and thoughts.

Nick: [laughs] Yes. So do with that as you will. So our next question is quote, "Are your outfits supposed to match the theme of a wedding? I don't know whether I should help add to the overall theme, or if that makes it look like I'm trying to be part of the wedding party. Then to add a layer of chaos, what if I'm the best man? Is my wife supposed to match the theme? I want to respect the bride, but also want my wife to look great and feel confident. What's a guy to do?"

Leah: This question screams Nick.

Nick: Does it?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Well, my first thought that I am currently screaming in my head is the theme of a wedding should be: Wedding. That should be the theme. The theme of this wedding is wedding. We do not need another theme. Can we not just have wedding be the theme? Really!

Leah: I knew that this was gonna be—this was just gonna be a talk about wedding.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Let's say there is a theme of the wedding, Nick.

Nick: Fine, if you want to be that person, but I do feel like "wedding" is a very good theme that I think we can embrace. It does not need to be something else. A wedding-themed wedding is chic and nice, and I think more people should just have that. But okay, we're having a theme.

Leah: There's a lot of fun themes.

Nick: Sure. Yeah. No, zombie apocalypse, medieval times. Yeah, let's have it.

Leah: I mean, I feel like you nailed ones for me right there.

Nick: [laughs] So guests should, I think, try to reflect the theme to the best of their abilities and budget, but I don't think we want them to look like they're in the bridal party. So I think if they're just told, like, "Oh, it's, you know, garden party themed," well then, yes, guests should be floral and, you know, whatever that means to them. But I don't think we want them dressing in the same thing that the bridesmaids or groomsmen are wearing. So I think that's how I would navigate that. If you're the best man, you probably have something assigned to you if it's a typical wedding where the bride and groom are basically, you know, putting everybody in costume. And so yeah, you have to wear that. But then your guest, your spouse who is not in the bridal party, they do not have to be doing that. In fact, they should not do that. They should just do the broader theme. And so they should just wear whatever they think looks great, but also is, like, you know, vaguely in the theme of whatever it is.

Leah: Vaguely in the theme of garden parties. So maybe they're wearing rubber gloves.

N; Mmm, trowels.

Leah: [laughs] And they have a basket. Yes. With a little—little baby shovels in it.

Nick: Yeah. No, smocks. Now we're onto something.

Leah: That would be fun. You have, like, the big bunch of carrots that still has dirt on it, and then the greenery.

Nick: Who needs a bouquet? Love it. Yeah, so I think that's how we would handle that.

Leah: See, I knew you'd have the perfect answer.

Nick: I mean, do you agree with this?

Leah: I do agree with that.

Nick: But honestly, themes, theme weddings. I mean ...

Leah: I just knew you had to say—I knew you had to get that off your chest.

Nick: Yeah, I get—I guess sometimes I'm just really hostile with the wedding industrial complex.

Leah: But the thing is is that some people really love stuff. It's a thing they enjoy together. Like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or dogs.

Nick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

Leah: So maybe you have a dog-themed wedding. We could just look at that as fun.

Nick: Yeah. But then I think to make your guests now sort of participate in that?

Leah: But I think that you could so lightly participate. Like, you just wear what you were gonna wear anyway and then maybe have a pin.

Nick: Right. Yes, I would wear what I was gonna wear anyway, and then I would have, like, a Dalmatian print pocket square.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, that's all—you don't even ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: We don't have to go out and buy new—if you expect people to go buy a whole new outfit, that's ...

Nick: Well, many people do. And that I think is where it crosses the line for me. When you are basically forcing your guests to spend money on a one-time-only look.

Leah: Say I did, for example. I'm just throwing this out. I haven't thought about it in advance but, like, a Lord of the Rings theme.

Nick: Right. I mean, just pull from the air.

Leah: I'm just pulling from the air randomly. It's not like I'm sitting next to a full size poster.

Nick: Mm-hmm?

Leah: I would not expect people who are not already in Lord of the Rings to go buy an outfit.

Nick: Right. And what would that even be? Like, what is my lord—am I wearing a cloak?

Leah: Well, you would have to pick. Are you an elf?

Nick: Oh, right. Yeah.

Leah: You know what I mean? Who are you? Which ...

Nick: Who am I in the Lord of the Rings universe?

Leah: I'm gonna have to think about that.

Nick: Okay. Because you really don't want—there's an answer that you have, but somehow it's offensive.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So you are trying to thread some needle here. Because you know I'm gonna google whatever it is, and then I'm gonna be, like, "Leah Bonnema thinks I am a this? How rude! That is exactly what's happening.

Leah: To continue with what I was saying, I have elf ears. They were, like, $5.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: You could throw on—say you wear your cocktail dress or your suit, whatever you were wearing. You throw on some elf ears. Or you just have, like, one of those, like, headbands that people have. You know what I mean? It could be a little thing.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Or if you're a person who's like, "I've been looking my whole life for a Lord of the Ring—" you know what I mean? You want to rent the whole thing, have at it. But I can't expect everybody to go full Aragorn. You know what I mean? Not everybody's getting a full Gandalf. I just have half Gandalf the grays and half Gandalf the whites. You know what I mean? I—that's a—that's a—but ...

Nick: Well I think, because you are a reasonable person. I think there are a lot of people planning weddings who do not have that level of respect for their guests, and do create a theme and create an expectation, create a color story, create mood boards, create requirements for their guests, which do become a burden. And I think that I don't love.

Leah: But I mean, even if there was a mood board, you'd be like, "I'm still wearing the black cocktail dress. I'll get a hat in your colors."

Nick: Right, but now I just bought a hat, and now I have a hat in my house. Like, where does that go?

Leah: Well, now you get a hat wall.

Nick: Oh, now I have a wall for my hats?

Leah: You have a wall of hats.

Nick: Okay, now it's too far. You think I have extra wall space?

Leah: Yes, I'm looking at some right now. Right next to the airplane.

Nick: But it's—the wall space is minimalist and blank. That's by design. It is not meant to have a one hat worn for one wedding once.

Leah: I don't know what to tell you, Nick. Maybe you rent the hat.

Nick: Oh, now I'm renting hats?

Leah: Well, you could just go with the pocket square like you said. You could do the ...

Nick: Yeah, but now I still have to find a Dalmatian print pocket square. So, like, all right, that's—my point is, I think a wedding-themed wedding is lovely, and I think more people should have them.

Leah: Okay. Well, I'm fine if you want me to wear a Dalmatian pocket square or elf ears. That seems manageable for me. For the—a celebration.

Nick: Listeners, send your invitations accordingly. You know who should receive what.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: For me, I just want your elegant weddings that are wedding themed, and for your dog, Lord of the Rings-themed weddings, then Leah is your guest of choice.

Leah: I'm still waiting for a fancy ranch invite. Nobody's giving me one.

Nick: I mean, I would show up for that. I'll—I'll buy some Wrangler jeans for that.

Leah: I get—did get invited to a chic beach wedding.

Nick: Oh, what's that?

Leah: And so I went with a dress I already owned.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Blue.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: Sleeveless. It's on the beach.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then because I'm me, I got a pair of—yeah, I'm gonna have white whites on the beach. Slip ons. Come on.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And then I got a fanny pack to match my slip on white whites. So both of those items are items that I then use in my regular life.

Nick: Okay. All right, so at least this is not a one-time purchase.

Leah: Yeah. So what you do is you find a thing that you're like, "You know where else I can work this in?"

Nick: Yeah. No, you can make it work. I guess my point is just it would just be nice if we would not treat our guests at a wedding like props, and would let them just look their best, whatever that is, and just enjoy their company. That's all I want.

Leah: I am agreeing with you. I just think that it doesn't have to be all in. Like, not everybody has to be wearing purple with a—you could wear black with just like a purple bracelet, and I feel like that should be good enough.

Nick: That should definitely be good enough. And yes, if a bride wants to complain that their guests didn't take the theme seriously enough, well then that's on them.

Leah: They can just put them in the back of the picture.

Nick: Yeah. Or Photoshop. At this point, Photoshop can fix all of this. Just let guests wear whatever they want and just fix it in post.

Leah: [laughs] Fix it in post, everybody. That's what we're walking away with today.

Nick: That's the takeaway. Just fix it in post. So you out there, do you have questions for us that we can try fixing in post? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!