Flipping Over Cutlery, Making Friends in Kindergarten, Choosing Cup Holders, and More

Nick: Do you set the table incorrectly? Do you use the wrong cup holder at stadiums? Do you wear too much perfume? Were you raised by wolves? Let's find out!

[Theme Song]

Here are things that can make it better

When we have to live together

We can all use a little help

So people don't ask themselves

Were you raised by wolves?

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And let's just get right down to it with our amuse bouche.

Leah: Ooh, let's get in it!

Nick: So for today's amuse bouche, Leah, I would like to give you this set of pearls. So please put on this pearl necklace.

Leah: I just mimed putting it on.

Nick: [laughs] And then I want you to look at this table setting. So please take a look at this table setting. And you have pearls, which you can clutch when you spot something that is horrifying. So for our listeners, please tell us what you see.

Leah: Oh, so I get to clutch pearls, and what's gonna be really funny, Nick, is if it's a table that I set, and I just clutch pearls right from the beginning.

Nick: No, no. This is actually a table in my home.

Leah: Oh, okay.

Nick: So this is my flatware. Yeah.

Leah: You know, Nick ...

Nick: Leah's clutching her chest.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But I think that's just because she's confused.

Leah: Well, I don't understand what it's on top of.

Nick: Well, that's a placemat.

Leah: No, over—oh, it's a glass table. Okay, well it definitely makes me feel weird that everything's upside down.

Nick: What's upside down?

Leah: The forks and the spoons.

Nick: Ah! Okay, are you clutching your pearls?

Leah: I'm holding them.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: I do feel like they feel vulnerable.

Nick: Mmm. So it feels incorrect.

Leah: It just feels sort of very vulnerable.

Nick: And when you say "upside down," describe what are you seeing with the forks and the spoons.

Leah: Forks and spoons are bottoms up.

Nick: Okay, so the tines are down.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: The bowl is reversed.

Leah: Bowl is reversed.

Nick: Okay. So this is actually not wrong. This is actually very European—particularly French, but this definitely pops up throughout Europe. And where this comes from is that in France in particular, when you engrave your silver, you do it on the back.

Leah: Oh, so fancy!

Nick: And so if you're going to bother engraving your silver, you might as well have people see it.

Leah: Tres chic.

Nick: Mmm, oui. And so Miss Manners actually particularly enjoys watching guests react in, quote, "pure horror" when they think the host has done something wrong. Quote, "There is nothing quite so grand as setting a table with a kind of old European silver, which is engraved on the back, thus giving your guests a terrible shock when, not knowing that those pieces are correctly placed with the fork prongs and spoon bowls facing the tablecloth, they conclude that you have set the table upside down."

Leah: [laughs] I feel like you set me up for this, Nick.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: You know that I would think that the flatware was vulnerable and it looks sort of nude.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then you set me up.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's the whole point of this segment is to set you up.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That's the whole thing.

Leah: Meanwhile, I got distracted by the glass table.

Nick: Right. Yeah, that was not the thing we were looking at. And Miss Manners, if you actually want to engrave your silver, she does have some instructions for you, which is, quote, "Silver is marked with the three initials of the bride's maiden name. This is particularly practical these days when silver lasts much longer than the average marriage."

Leah: [gasps]

Nick: I mean, Judith Martin is nothing but practical.

Leah: [laughs] I mean, there might be something else she is.

Nick: Sure. And Emily Post has also weighed in on this upside down monogram thing. And she says that traditionally—and when we're talking about traditionally for Emily Post, I mean, that's going back, that she says that traditionally when you monogram silver, the tops of the letters actually face the top of the handle. So they would be upside down to you, the diner, at that place setting. So not only is the spoon upside down, but the monogram is facing upside down as well.

Leah: Wild!

Nick: And Emily's been asked about this, like, why would you have the monogram engraved the other way? And she's like, "That question is totally reasonable." And even though it is customary to do that, you don't have to because, quote, "There is no reason why." So okay.

Leah: [laughs] That's my favorite kind of answer.

Nick: I mean, there is the accusation that etiquette rules are just, like, totally made up and arbitrary and nobody knows where they come from. And, like, when Emily post is like, "I don't know. You don't have to." I mean, what do we do with this?

Leah: When she's like, "That's a very good question."

Nick: Great question. Yeah. I don't know. So you don't have to do it that way, but that's what's customary. So if you've inherited silver, or you picked up old silver and it's engraved on the back and you want to set your table in this very elegant, very French way, then have at it. It is not incorrect.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: [laughs] Is this how you're gonna set your table now, Leah?

Leah: No, I think that it exposes the undersides, and I think that if my fork and my spoon were to come to life, a la Beauty and the Beast, they'd be like, "I'm facing the wrong way. I can't see anything."

Nick: Okay, that's a fair point. Yes. Once your flatware becomes sentient, we wanna be mindful of their feelings.

Leah: [laughs] Yes!

Nick: Okay.

Leah: They're like, "I can't see! What's going on up there?"

Nick: Okay, fair point.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to go deep.

Leah: [sings] Deep into school.

Nick: So we got a lovely question from a listener, which is quote, "I've been a listener since the very beginning, and yours is the only grown-up podcast my kids will tolerate. My five year old will be starting kindergarten in the fall, and he has a question. He wants to know if you have any ideas for how to make new friends at school or any other school-related etiquette."

Leah: I love this question so much. It, like, warmed my heart so much that my eyes welled up a little bit.

Nick: How adorable that we have a five year old who wants some advice about making friends.

Leah: Also, I can tell already this kid's gonna knock it out of the park.

Nick: Oh, totally. Yeah. Oh, this kid's going places.

Leah: I also—I also love the idea that we're a grown-up podcast.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah. No, I could see how you might find that surprising.

Leah: Half of us is.

Nick: Sure.

Leah: Also, I want to say to our wonderful letter-writer, kindergarten was my best year in school.

Nick: Oh, it's downhill from there?

Leah: [laughs] No, I didn't want to put it that way, Nick. No, I'm saying, I have—my kindergarten teacher was Miss Driscoll. If anybody knows Miss Driscoll, she opened up the world for me. I have so many fond memories, just made everything exciting and, you know, we had—we did a lot of works with letters, you know what I mean? It was—she just really was loving and I mean, I loved my kindergarten teacher.

Nick: Yeah, I have fond memories of mine. And interestingly, I just came across some papers in my files, and I found a report card from kindergarten. And what is so interesting is that who we are when we're five years old, it's kind of who we are. And so it's a very lovely report card and there's a lot of nice things, but at the end, Carolyn, my kindergarten teacher, says this. Quote, "My only area of concern would be his ability to understand his peer group. He is so advanced intellectually, it's hard for him to relate. When frustrated with peers, he usually retreats. throws himself on a couch and cries. He does not try to work it out verbally. It takes a teacher's interaction to help straighten out the conflict. I want him to try to develop this social skill by being more patient and tolerant of others. Most are not up to his standards, and he has trouble coping with that issue. I'm sure because of his brilliant mind, this theme will criss cross his life path. There are not a lot of Nicholases out there. He is unique and wonderful, and I see him doing very great things in his lifetime."

Leah: Okay!

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, so the idea that most are not up to my standards, and I have trouble being patient and tolerant of others ...

Leah: I think what our takeaway was is that Nicholas Layton was a little genius.

Nick: Oh ...

Leah: I think the word was "brilliant." I think that's the word that was used by Carolyn.

Nick: My takeaway from this is the part about my shortcomings. So ...

Leah: Oh, I didn't even hear the shortcoming parts. I was like, "brilliant?" Hello!

Nick: Okay. But no, it is interesting that it is true, this theme has crisscrossed my life path, where I do struggle putting up with others. And luckily, I've created a podcast to take advantage of this shortcoming.

Leah: [laughs] By making other people do what you think.

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, I mean, like, what a great strategy. Yeah, if I can't fix this in myself, at least let's, you know, make it work for me. So back to our letter-writer. How do we make friends in kindergarten?

Leah: Well, I think it's great to show up excited.

Nick: Yeah. Be interested, be curious.

Leah: And be yourself.

Nick: Definitely be yourself. And I think remember that being different is not only okay, but actually better. You don't want to be the same as everybody else. You want to stand out. You want to be different. You want to be unique. You want to be you.

Leah: You do want to be you, because it's gonna creep out anyway.

Nick: That's actually a good point. And I think what's interesting is at some point in our lives when we realize that all of the things that are different about us that maybe we didn't like or tried to conform or whatever it was, once we realize, like, oh, no, those are actually the good things, those are the things that make me unique, that make me stand out, make me different, once we realize that and embrace that, that actually unlocks, I think, the rest of your life. Because then you're like, "Oh, you are going to hire me because I'm bringing something that nobody else can." Like, listeners, you're listening to this podcast because you're getting something from Leah and myself that you can't get anywhere else because it's just who we are. And honestly, there's really nobody like us—for better or for worse.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: But we are unique, you know? And so that uniqueness is what makes this show special. So in kindergarten, I think you want to just remember that, like, it's okay to be different. And being different is actually cool. And, like, I think that's an important thing to keep in mind.

Leah: Yeah, and it goes also with all the people you meet. Like, you're gonna find people that are also—you know, that enjoy the same things as you, or maybe they like something else and you learn something from them, and it's just a great time.

Nick: And related to that, not everybody has to like the same things that you like, and that's okay, too.

Leah: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think you get to learn about what other people like, and then you find people that like what you like.

Nick: And then I think it's important to issue invitations. I think like any good host, you want to issue invitations. So invitations to play, invitations to share snacks, invitations to use my crayons. Have a party, you know? Everybody likes a party. And so I think being a good host, being a gracious, generous person, always trying to include people, invite other people, I think this is an important thing to try.

Leah: Yes. And I agree, and I also think a very visual example of that I get is, like, the lunch table.

Nick: Hmm.

Leah: Because I think—I don't know how your seats were, but there was definitely, like, the lunch room, who's gonna get sat at what table? I don't want to have—what if nobody wants me to sit with them? Invite everybody to sit with you.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's very gracious. And I think people remember that, because I think when you look back at all the relationships you've had, you don't remember the details necessarily, but you remember how people made you feel.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: And so I think that's a key thing.

Leah: Like Mrs. Driscoll.

Nick: And I was thinking at lunchtime, like, I guess we're not breaking bread. Are we breaking bread? Other baguettes? What kind of school is this? But I guess we're ...

Leah: Did you just say are there baguettes at kindergarten?

Nick: [laughs] I did, yes. I mean, are there baguettes?

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: In my kindergarten, we're gonna have baguettes.

Leah: I definitely—I don't know, Nick. I don't know if there are baguettes. If I had to guess, I'm gonna say no.

Nick: I imagine—do you think in French kindergartens they have baguettes? I hope so. I assume they do.

Leah: They better have baguettes in French kindergarten.

Nick: Right?

Leah: If not ...

Nick: Missed opportunity.

Leah: That's the vibe they're putting out.

Nick: Yeah, that is definitely the vibe. Yeah. I mean, that's the rumor they're spreading.

Leah: Imagine it's not like that at all. They're just like—they've all agreed that they're gonna put that vibe out.

Nick: And instead they just eat American Wonder Bread in secret?

Leah: They're all just there eating Lunchables.

Nick: Oh, they're just sipping on Capri Sun and eating little Ritz crackers. Okay. [laughs] I'm pretty sure that is not happening in France.

Leah: I do love the idea of thinking of it as being a fun host.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I guess think of kindergarten as, like, your dinner party.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That might be weird, but the idea is yeah, you just want to include everybody. You want to listen to people. You want to bring people into the conversation. You want to respect everybody. You want everybody to have a nice time. You know, I think if that's the vibe, then people want to be around that. You know, people want that energy, and people want to be friends with people who have that energy.

Leah: And then I think, oh, you know, classroom etiquette across the board is, you know, when something's happening, there's a presentation, the teacher's talking, one of the kids are talking, we focus in, we listen.

Nick: Yes, I think that comes down to respect. You want to respect other people's space and time and feelings. And so yeah, if somebody is speaking, you want to give them the respect of listening to them because we want that in return.

Leah: Yeah. And I remember kindergarten as being more like a communal workspace. So I feel like we would always sort of pick up our area at the end of the day.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Which I have not carried into adulthood, but I do remember doing it at that point in my life.

Nick: Well, you're probably also not doing nap time, so you've really dropped a lot of things.

Leah: I wish I was, let me tell you that. I wish nap time was coming back.

Nick: Isn't it amazing that when you're young and you're like, "Oh, I don't wanna do nap time." And, like, as an adult, you're like, "Oh, I wish I had nap time."

Leah: [laughs] Why can't I have a nap time? I want it so bad."

Nick: But I think also what is interesting about, like, how to make friends in kindergarten, it's not actually just for kindergarten. I mean, obviously it's just like at any age.

Leah: No, I was gonna say this really could be for anybody.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, it's for everybody. Yeah.

Leah: I think it's sort of important to bring in enthusiasm and an excitement.

Nick: Well, we want curiosity and we want openness. I think we want to just be open to new people, new ideas, new points of view, new activities. We just want to be open.

Leah: Yeah, I always hate it when people would be like, "I'm too cool to do that." And you'll be like, "Are you? Get in there, have fun. You know, it's cool getting in there."

Nick: Yeah. I mean, if you're too cool to do something, are you cool?

Leah: No!

Nick: Right? I'm trying to think, is there—is there something I'm too cool for? No, there's a lot of things I don't care for, but that's not because I'm too cool, it's just because I don't like it. [laughs] But I'm not doing it because I'm too cool.

Leah: I will say also, but if something makes you really uncomfortable.

Nick: Oh, sure. Yeah. No, that's a whole other story.

Leah: Yeah, then feel free to do a polite, "No thank you," or "Don't do that," or "That makes me uncomfortable."

Nick: Yeah. And actually, kindergarten? Great place to learn how to set boundaries. Great place to learn that skill.

Leah: "No, you can't have my Capri Sun."

Nick: "These are my crayons. You may ask for permission, but you may not take them."

Leah: "I'm using the red right now." Nick and I are just throwing out possible lines that might come up.

Nick: [laughs] Those are all good.

Leah: I feel those are really good. You know what I do think is sad? I feel like they probably don't have the pencil sharpener anymore, and that was ...

Nick: Oh. Do they still have, like, the little pouch for pens and pencils?

Leah: They must. There must be still a little pouch, but I feel like now it's like the pencil with the lead that just pops out.

Nick: I hear Trapper Keepers are making a comeback.

Leah: I hope so, because Trapper Keepers, going to pick out your trapper keeper?

Nick: Oh, that was the whole day. I mean, that was really—and a big decision because it was a decision you were gonna have all school year. And so you had to get it right.

Leah: Oh, I love a Trapper Keeper.

Nick: Unrelated, but I just wanna get your opinion. So we have different notebooks and notebooks have different colors. What subject is red?

Leah: I would go literature.

Nick: Oh! No, red is math.

Leah: Really? I would do black as math.

Nick: Black? That's not one of the options.

Leah: Why is black not an option? I have multiple, multiple notebooks that are black.

Nick: Okay, what color is green? What subject do we use for green?

Leah: Science.

Nick: Okay. All right, so we agree on that. Blue?

Leah: Spelling.

Nick: Okay, I was gonna go English, but okay, same vibe. Yellow? What do we do with yellow?

Leah: Mmm. Mm-mm-mm. I don't know if I've ever had a yellow notebook, Nick.

Nick: What? Wow!

Leah: What do you do with yellow?

Nick: Yellow is history.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, it's like parchment paper, I guess. I don't know. [laughs]

Leah: You know, to be honest, I could do history again.

Nick: We're doing history every day, Leah.

Leah: I know, but I could really start from the beginning.

Nick: Oh, the beginning.

Leah: Of history. And just go right through again.

Nick: Starting at the Big Bang.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. All right. Well, you're gonna need a couple notebooks.

Leah: There must be a podcast.

Leah: Should we just make this a history of the world podcast, Leah?

Leah: Yeah, did we just pivot it halfway and we were like, "You know what? We feel like we've covered a lot of the issues."

Nick: So now let's talk about quantum wave theory.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Bosons and quarks. Yes, the Higgs field. Let's do it, Leah. Oh, it's a whole new show. So listener, thank you so much for this lovely question. I hope kindergarten year is gonna be amazing.

Leah: This is so exciting.

Nick: And everybody else who's older than five years old, hopefully you will use this advice too, because I think it's good advice no matter how old you are.

Leah: Always good to remember to be curious.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And excited.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And try new things.

Nick: Yeah. And to remember to try to tolerate people who are not up to your standards.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to take some questions from you all in the wilderness.

Leah: [howls]

Nick: So our first question is quote, "My daughter, who's 21 years old, has been dating her boyfriend for five years. Both are graduating college soon—different schools, different states. And we thought it'd be nice to celebrate with the boyfriend's parents when they're both back in town from their respective graduations. I've texted the other parents, and we've agreed on a date and a place. My husband and I made it clear it was our treat since we hadn't really spent time getting to know them. Today, our daughter informed us that they just broke up. It was a mutual breakup, but it hurts, of course. She said she sees them being friends, but for now, it's raw and they're taking time. Totally understand. But what is the best way to proceed with the dinner we planned? Do we cancel? Isn't that rude since we offered to take them out? Do we just go out with the parents and tell the graduates they can stay home if they prefer? Do we just all resolve ourselves to an awkward dinner? I'm not sure the best way to proceed here."

Leah: I think we ask our kid.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, I think we could ask.

Leah: Say we planned this dinner. How do you think we should proceed?

Nick: Right.

Leah: And then they may just—they may be like, "Oh, we're fine to all go out to dinner and still celebrate." Or they could be like, "I can't see them."

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: And then, "But you go if you want." So you could reach out to the other parents and say, "Hey, so my daughter just told us that our kids have stopped seeing each other, and they're sort of in a tender part right now where they're not able to talk because they're getting over it. We're still happy to take you out if you wanted to come, but we can also not do it. Totally up to you."

Nick: Yeah, I think that's probably the vibe. I mean, I guess, will they be back together in a month? I guess that was my first thought. It's sort of like, you know how kids are. Is this a breakup? Are we on a break? What's happening? A lot can happen in four weeks. So I thought maybe let's reach out and be like, "Hey, this thing happened. What are your thoughts?" But also, like, should we decide what to do, like, once we get a little closer? Like, let's keep the reservation but, like, a couple of days before let's check in, see where we're at?

Leah: I mean, I've just learned that just because—and not even with—you know, even with adult friends, they'll break up, and then they'll want to trash talk their significant other to you.

Nick: Do not get sucked into that.

Leah: Do not get sucked into that.

Nick: It's a trap!

Leah: Because what happens is they get back together.

Nick: Yep.

Leah: And then ...

Nick: You said everything you wanted to say.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You were just trying to be supportive of your friend, and it gets repeated to the other person.

Nick: Sure does. Yep, that gets relayed word for word.

Leah: So you just sit there and listen.

Nick: Yeah. Oh yeah, that's always a trap. Yeah, never speak ill of the ex, because you never know. You never know.

Leah: Unless it was like an obvious, huge, horrible thing otherwise.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Whoo!

Nick: Yeah. So for this, I would reach out to the kids and be like, "Hey, what are your thoughts? And do you want to even decide this now, or should we just, like, wait 'til we get closer?" And then I guess see what the response is.

Leah: Yeah. And if the kids are like, "We don't want to go, but it's up to you," then I would reach out to the other parents.

Nick: Yeah. Done.

Leah: Done!

Nick: So our next question is quote, "When attending a sporting event, which cup holder goes to each seat? Keep in mind that there is one fewer cup holder than seats, as there are no cup holders on the outside of the aisles. I grew up being taught that it is the cup holder towards home plate in baseball, towards midfield in soccer, or towards the 50-yard line in football, because that is the direction you are typically facing. My friend, however, says it's always the cup holder on the right. Please settle this very non-consequential disagreement. Go Angels!"

Leah: [laughs] Please settle this non-consequential agreement. Go Angels!"

Nick: And non-consequential? I'm sorry, drinking out of someone else's glass is totally consequential. I mean, are there not consequences?

Leah: Nick just sees the whole thing falling into anarchy.

Nick: This is one step closer to mayhem and chaos. Yeah, we can't live in that world.

Leah: I've never been at a sporting event where everybody had a drink.

Nick: Ah, interesting. Okay. I mean, that's true. Yeah, you do not have a hundred percent of all fans holding a beverage.

Leah: So it's—for me, it's always been—I didn't even—I was like, what? Because it's always been, like, who on either side of me doesn't have a drink? And I'm gonna go to that cup holder.

Nick: Okay. Oh. No.

Leah: I wish we could take a picture of Nick's face, but I think you probably got it from the noises coming out of his mouth.

Nick: Yeah. Oh, it's just—you know when you smell something bad and you're not quite sure where it's coming from? That's the face.

Leah: And then you're like, "Oh, it's coming from Leah." [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Just this bad advice wafting through the screen.

Leah: Well, that way everybody's gonna get a cup holder.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Somebody could be short down at the end, and you didn't need that one next to you because that person didn't actually have one.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. No, so the idea of etiquette is that ...

Leah: Are you even going to sporting events, though?

Nick: There are cup holders sometimes at theaters. The Met Opera does not have cup holders, but it's something they could look into. [laughs] So the point of etiquette is that we have a standard of behavior that we all agree on. And why we need that is it avoids me drinking out of your glass. I mean, this is why we have place settings. Where the fork goes is sort of arbitrary, but we've all decided that it goes on the left, and that is so you know which is your fork. That's the whole thing. And so glassware goes on the right. All the glasses—all the glasses—everything goes on the right. This is just how it's done. And so why would we not have the beverage also on the right in this setting? We need a consistent standard. So I say it is the cup holder on the right is yours. And if you are on the aisle and you do not have a cup holder, I am so sorry, you have to hold your drink.

Leah: Well, if you were living in my world, person on the end, you would be able to have a drink because somebody in the middle probably didn't have a drink, so they just put it on that side and then everybody just got to make up for it but Nick said that I'm "wafting bad ideas."

Nick: I mean, get one of those hats that holds two cans of beer in it.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That's what those are invented for, for the person on the aisle. But you want to live in a world in which we all just decide whatever cup holder is free, that's my cup holder.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: You want to live in this world?

Leah: I do!

Nick: I don't want to live in that world.

Nick: I do because then everybody's gonna get a cup holder.

Nick: But now I'm confused. Which is my drink?

Leah: If you don't remember which one you put down ...

Nick: An exciting baseball game of sports?

Leah: I've never been that excited.

Nick: I don't want the ambiguity. Also, let's say I can remember which one is mine, but I don't trust the people on either side of me.

Leah: Yeah, but these people don't all know that it's to the right.

Nick: Everybody knows that drinks go on the right. Everybody should. Drinks go on the right.

Leah: It's such a cruel thing to left-handed people.

Nick: But you get the bread. Bread is on your side.

Leah: Not at a sporting event.

Nick: There could be baguettes.

Leah: There have been baguettes in so many of these conversations.

Nick: [laughs] I just—last night for dinner, I actually had an incredible baguette, and I'm still thinking about it. Like it was—it was—it was really transcendent, the spread, I gotta say.

Leah: What would you say were the qualities that made it transcendent?

Nick: It was the kind of baguette that it was actually, like, before it's baked, it's sort of cut into, like, leaves. And so there was sort of, like, petals of bread. So you really got a nice crust around. So you got kind of more service area of, like, delicious crust. And it was really—it was just like the right ratio. And it was warm.

Leah: I would say warm.

Nick: And it had the right traditional ratio. I mean, these were, like, legal baguettes. It really just hit all the boxes. And I just—I wish I had more, but I didn't want to spoil, like, the rest of the meal. But it was, like, such a—it was such an internal battle of, like, I want more baguette, but I shouldn't. But I want it. And what do you do with that angel and devil?

Leah: I mean, you're still thinking about it.

Nick: Yeah, I know. Yeah. No, I really—and I will continue thinking about it. So at a sporting event, there could be baguettes, and in which case it would go on the left. So if you wanted to put a baguette in the cup holder on the left, I would be okay with that.

Leah: Yes, but then the person to the left of me doesn't have their—their cup holder.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is just bad stadium design, where there isn't a spot dedicated for baguettes.

Leah: I just feel really bad for the person all the way on the right who has no cup holder.

Nick: I think when you're buying your tickets you gotta know that that's the deal. And I think a better stadium when they're selling tickets would have a warning at checkout. "Warning, this seat does not have a cup holder." Similar to, like, "Oh, this is like partial view." So this is like no cup holder. That's the disclosure I wanna see.

Leah: Okay, I think if there's a way to let everybody know that these are the rules, then I would be willing to follow them.

Nick: I mean, these are the rules. Beverages go on the right. It's the same rules for table settings.

Leah: I don't know if it's the same rules.

Nick: Okay. Well, you know what? This is my ruling. Leah has different feelings about it. Listeners, you know what we think. Do with this information as you will.

Leah: I think you're probably right, beverages go on the right but, like, I just don't think it works.

Nick: Okay, well ...

Leah: Somebody's getting left out.

Nick: Well, you know, sometimes people get left out and that's life.

Leah: I don't like it. I don't want anybody to get left out.

Nick: Well, I'm so sorry, but that is life. Well, if we followed your instructions, then the person on the left might get left out. Or what happens if I'm sitting somewhere and both people on either side have decided that the cup holders on my chair are the ones they want, and now I have no cup holder.

Leah: I just don't think it's gonna work out that way.

Nick: That could definitely be how this goes.

Leah: It could, but I doubt it.

Nick: If the person on my right uses the cup holder on their left, and the person on my left uses the cup holder on their right, then I have no cup holders.

Leah: It's just never happened that way.

Nick: There is just one less cup holder per seat in this row.

Leah: But I don't think that every person in that row will have—there's just statistically, not every person's gonna have a drink.

Nick: Okay. Yeah. No, I mean, I see what you're saying. I see where you're coming from, but I think if we allowed this line of logic to continue, it is just gonna tear one thread of the fabric of humanity. And once we start pulling it, there is no end to it. And pretty soon, there will just be abandoned playgrounds and burning oil drums, and it'll just be mayhem.

Leah: It'll just be the beginning of Terminator 2. [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Leah: I can see Nick at a football game being like, "Hi, can everybody please pick up your cup and it goes to your right."

Nick: I would absolutely love to do that announcement. Yeah, who needs a kiss cam? We need the etiquette cam.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: So do you have questions for us about consequential questions or anything else? Let us know! You can let us know through our website, WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW.

Nick: And we're back. And now it's time to play a game we like to call Vent or Repent.

Leah: Vent or repent!

Nick: Which is our opportunity to vent about some bad etiquette experience we've had recently, or we can repent for some etiquette faux pas we've committed. So Leah, would you like to vent or repent? Leah is thinking very hard.

Leah: Well, I have a thing that I'm not sure what it is.

Nick: Oh! I would be delighted to let you know.

Leah: All I know is that it's the mo—it's very me.

Nick: Okay. Does it involve a bathroom?

Leah: No!

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But it's sort of the same feelings, I think.

Nick: What has happened?

Leah: So I needed—I just needed under-eye makeup.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I always use the same brand.

Nick: All right.

Leah: I only buy makeup products that are not tested on animals.

Nick: All right.

Leah: I go into a place. I think there was a look about me that said, "This girl needs a compliment today."

Nick: Okay. [laughs]

Leah: You know what I mean? I think it was oozing out of me.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: This woman came over to me. "Can I help you?" "Oh, I'm refilling." "May I suggest this alternate brand?"

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: Then she looks at me as if I've never been looked at before in my life and says, "I have a color for you." Okay.

Nick: Oh?

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: So then she recommends this lip—I don't wear lipstick, but I've always wanted to be a woman who wears lipstick. And I mean, she sells me. She sells me.

Nick: Interesting. Okay.

Leah: She sells me on the color. Oh, I feel I'm a model now. And then now we're getting products. And then I say, "Is this tested on animals?" And she says, "You know, I don't know. But I do know it gets, like, a hundred on this—" it's an app, like, whether or not things are clean, like you can do food, you can do cosmetics, whatever. She goes, "It's very highly rated." So in my mind, I'm like, "Ah, it's the same thing." I'm in the throes of getting—feeling like, you know, a special woman. So I go to the counter, I buy all of it. I mortgage the house. I sell my dogs. I buy it.

Nick: Wow! What an upsell.

Leah: What an upsell. I get back to the house. I'm out of the cloud. And I go, "What just happened to me? I don't wear any of this stuff. I just wanted my under-eye stuff." And then I look it up. Is tested on animals.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: So then I cannot go back to the store because she was so lovely. I mean, it was obviously all a sale, but I still felt like the belle of the ball, Nick. I needed to feel like the belle of the ball so bad. And then I didn't want to hurt her feelings because she did do such a good job. I got in my car.

Nick: Did you drive to a different location of the same chain?

Leah: I drove to Burbank. So round trip, we're talking an hour.

Nick: Oh, are there no other outlets of this makeup store nearby?

Leah: Well, I don't know. There's great parking at this one, and I figured I could do another errand. I went in and the woman goes, "Why are you returning it?" And I said, "Honestly, I didn't even come for any of this stuff." I just got ...

Nick: My self-esteem was so low. And she was so nice to me.

Leah: And the woman was so great. And she said this color was made for me, and I felt seen. And then so I returned all of it at this other store.

Nick: Okay. Did you at least get the product you needed?

Leah: No, in the midst of all that, I forgot. I still have to go back again.

Nick: [laughs] Okay. So I guess yeah, what is this? What just happened?

Leah: I don't know what just happened.

Nick: Was there an etiquette crime at all? Not really. It's just you just got swept into the magic of sales.

Leah: I am the person it works on.

Nick: Yeah, I mean, I guess the thing that I think is funny is that you didn't wanna hurt her feelings.

Leah: I didn't wanna hurt her feelings at all. So I was like, I gotta go to another store.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think the etiquette lesson here is that business etiquette and social etiquette are different. And so if this was a gift, then yes, obviously we don't want to hurt the person who gave us this gift's feelings. And so we would go out of our way to, like, not let them know you went and returned their gift. We wouldn't want to make that obvious. But this is business etiquette.

Leah: This is business etiquette.

Nick: Which is, I was a consumer, I purchased something, I changed my mind, I am going to return it per your return policy. And so that is what is happening. And I think for that, we don't have to have any sort of etiquette feelings about it. It's just that's what's happening. And if she wants to, like, get hurt about it, well, then that's on her.

Leah: I mean, I can't even return things.

Nick: Yeah, like legitimate returns. Yes.

Leah: Yeah. I was like, I got it home and I go, "What? No!"

Nick: Well, speaking of "What? No!" I would like to vent. So I love a good solo dining. It's one of my favorite things. And there's a couple restaurants in my neighborhood that I kind of like rotate, you know, depending on the night. And so a lovely restaurant down the block, and I was like, I'm gonna treat myself. It's a little fancy. So I was like, I'm gonna treat myself. I'm gonna put nice pants on, and we're gonna, like, go and have dinner at the bar there. And so, like, I settle up to the bar, and how great. We're gonna kick it off.

Nick: And so obviously there's other seats at the bar and that's, like, the deal with the bar. And so a woman comes up and is also gonna be dining at the bar. And she is wearing so much perfume, it is out of control. Now, I wear cologne. I'm not actually bothered by scents. It's not actually one of my things. I have a very high tolerance. I'm very mindful of it and others. Like, if I was gonna be flying in an airplane, I would not actually wear any cologne just because I'm mindful of that. But, you know, in my day-to-day world, if I don't think I'm gonna be in a situation where it's gonna be a real problem, like, I'm gonna wear cologne. And this woman, though, the amount was so much. It was—like, she had to know. Like, it's like as if the bottle had broken in her hands before she left. And it was not a great scent. It was like a designer imposter's fragrance by Parfum de Cour. Do you know this? Could you picture this from, like, the late '80s, early '90s?

Leah: Oh, I remember those. Yes.

Nick: Yeah. Like it was like, "Oh, if you like Obsession by Calvin Klein, you're gonna love Confess." You know, it was like they were—they were like discount fragrances that were meant to mimic, like, more expensive brands that you could buy them at a drugstore. And it was just—it wasn't a great scent, and it was so distracting. And that was really the problem. Like, it really actually affected the taste of everything I was enjoying because it was so overwhelming. And here I am just sort of trying to figure out, like, do I move? I mean, obviously, I can't say anything to this woman. Like, "Oh, can you go home and not wear so much perfume?" Like, that's not an option. So all I can do is I control how I respond to it. so I toughed it out, but I didn't love it. So I think we should be a little more mindful about scents in general, and how much we're using and what kind, and how far off the body can you smell them? I think that's important. Where we're applying them. I think we just want to be a little more mindful about how that's going down.

Leah: I have two friends in my life that over-cologne.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: And they're huggers. They hug you, and then it's in your nose for at least an hour because it's so much it, like, gets in your throat.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, it's not great.

Leah: And I don't know how to be like, "Please don't touch me because your cologne is so strong that it will be in my mouth."

Nick: Yeah. No, this is a thing. And actually, like, in Japan at sushi bars, it's actually a rule. Sometimes it's actually a written rule, but it's certainly an unspoken rule that you do not wear scents when you're gonna go have sushi because of how easily can affect the dining experience of everybody else there. So this is a vent, but I think it's also a PSA. So just, you know, be mindful. Be mindful. That's all I'm asking.

Leah: What did you eat?

Nick: I ate Confess by Parfum de Cour.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: Do you remember the one that was the exclamation point? That was in that same ...

Nick: Oh, you mean Primo!?

Leah: Was it Primo!?

Nick: Was it Primo!?

Nick: Yeah, "If you like Giorgio, you'll love Primo!" Yeah. Yeah, I think there was an exclamation mark in that, maybe.

Leah: What a time to be alive!

Nick: Oh, good times. Good times.

Nick: So Leah, what have we learned?

Leah: I learned that we can go bottoms up on forks and spoons.

Nick: Yes, if you have engraved silver and it's engraved on the back, and you want to be very old world about it, yeah, have at it.

Leah: I mean, it looks like your forks and spoons are swimming in a pool.

Nick: Oh?

Leah: And they're doing, like, a breaststroke, but they're not coming up for air.

Nick: I mean, that's sometimes the look you want to have for your tablescape. And I learned that you want chaos in a stadium.

Leah: I would say I'm open to chaos if chaos serves everybody getting a cup holder.

Nick: I don't think chaos ever leads to good outcomes.

Leah: Well, maybe I'll just start going to baseball games more often and be like, "Let's run some tests."

Nick: [laughs] Well, thank you, Leah.

Leah: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And thanks to you out there for listening. I'd send you a handwritten note on my custom stationery if I could.

Leah: He would!

Nick: So for your homework this week, Leah, you get to pick what the homework is.

Leah: Nick, you're having a person who doesn't like homework pick homework.

Nick: Yeah, let's hear it. What would you like our listeners to do this week?

Leah: I would love it if our listeners this week ...

Nick: Leah's thinking really hard because she does not want to give anybody homework.

Leah: No, I want it to be like an emotional homework.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: I would love it if our listeners just did something nice ...

Nick: Oh, okay.

Leah: ... randomly for somebody in their life.

Nick: A random act of kindness.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I have a feeling that our listeners do that anyway.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But you just throw in one extra.

Nick: Okay, we need a bonus act of kindness this week.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Okay. Well, do that. Let us know how it goes, and we'll see you next time!

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!

Nick: All right, Leah. It's time for Cordials of Kindness, the part of the show that you make us do, but I only give you 30 seconds to do it. Ready, set, go!

Leah: I would love to do a shout out and a thank you to Nico and Zeke, who had both Nick and I over for a lovely brunch.

Nick: Oh, yes! Yes, when I was in town in Los Angeles.

Leah: Actually, I would call it a late lunch.

Nick: Yeah, I mean, it was sort of a midday meal.

Leah: I realize I don't know the difference between brunch and late lunch anymore.

Nick: Uh ...

Leah: Because brunch is breakfast-lunch, and that's more of like a linner.

Nick: It was not a linner. No, it was, like, at one o'clock.

Leah: [laughs] Well, that's not between breakfast and lunch. That's between lunch and dinner.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: None of this matters.

Nick: But it was lovely being guests in their home, and invited over and had a lovely afternoon.

Leah: We had so much fun. And I actually met Nico and Zeke through the podcast.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: Yes. Originally because they moved here and they lived here and they were like, "Hey!"

Nick: "Be friends."

Leah: And now it was like a full circle because then Nick was there.

Nick: Yeah, it was totally great. And for me, I actually wanted to say thank you to you, Leah, because you hosted me when I was in LA. We had, like, a lovely hike through Runyon Canyon. We had a fun dinner in—what was that restaurant? It was really good.

Leah: El Compadre.

Nick: Yeah, El Compadre in Los Angeles. Very fun, very cool. So yeah, you programmed a lovely couple days for me in Los Angeles. So thank you.

Leah: Nick! Nick, we had so much fun because I knew Nick was coming over and I was like, "We have to organize this whole house."

Nick: Oh yeah, Leah cleaned for me. [laughs]

Leah: And so when I mean we have to do it, that means Dustin has to do it and I just have to stand in the middle and panic.

Nick: I love that you think I don't already know how you live, and that this was required for me to actually come in person.

Leah: I didn't think it was required. I just wanted you to feel—oh, I honestly would let anybody in the house at any time, but Dustin has higher standards than me.

Nick: Oh, this is for Dustin. I gotcha. Well, I appreciate that it was very organized. There were bins. There were neat piles. Yeah.

Leah: I mean, I would want, obviously, people to feel, oh, there's a lot of space for me and, you know, but ...

Nick: Yeah. No, there was plenty of surfaces for me to sit down. It was fine. It was great.

Leah: I think Dustin is really like, "I'm gonna scrub corners."

Nick: Okay. Well, I appreciate the effort. It was noticed and appreciated.

Leah: Oh, well, I'm glad you had fun. Yeah.

Nick: So thank you for that.

Leah: Thank you! That was so sweet.