Brushing Teeth in Airports, Taking Dessert from Buffets, Handling Unwanted Vacation Guests, and More

Nick: Hey, everybody. It's Nick Leighton.

Leah: And it's Leah Bonnema.

Nick: And we had so many great questions from you all in the wilderness ...

Leah: [howls]

Nick: ... that we have a bonus episode. So here we go. Our first question is quote, "I love nothing more than brushing my teeth before and after a long flight. What is the correct etiquette for teeth brushing at airports? Never should I ever? Or only in remote and uncrowded restrooms with at least a sink buffer in between myself and other travelers? Or have at it?"

Leah: I love a toothbrush after you get off that plane.

Nick: Oh, yeah. I mean, I like brushing my teeth. I'm into it.

Leah: It's nice.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And it's good for those chompers.

Nick: Yeah, it's also good for your chompers. Yeah. So I don't think we live in a world in which you're not allowed to brush your teeth at an airport. Like that's—that's not a world we live in. So we're in an airport, are we allowed to brush our teeth?

Nick: Yeah, I think as long as you're in the bathroom.

Leah: Right. Yeah, so I feel like that's the place. Yeah.

Leah: You're in the right place.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: I mean, it's not like you're doing it at the seats.

Nick: Right. And, like, I can't do it in a stall. I mean, I guess I could, like, wet my toothbrush and then go into a stall. But ...

Leah: No, because you don't wanna be by the toilet.

Nick: [laughs] I mean, honestly though, the toilet is probably cleaner than the sink in some of these bathrooms.

Leah: I just don't want to be looking at the toilet while I'm brushing my teeth. That's why the sink is there. It's for washing hands.

Nick: Right.

Leah: And people brush their teeth near sinks. Like we are human beings with teeth that need to be brushed.

Nick: Yeah. So I feel like the sink is fine. And I think yes, if we can use the sink that's farthest away from the door or have a buffer sink, I think that's nice. I think I would go for that.

Leah: But if we can't, I just think we would just be careful throwing our elbows. And when we, you know, spit out, I would not do a big [gargles], you know?

Nick: [laughs] Yes, I think we want dainty spitting.

Leah: We want to keep control of the flow.

Nick: Oh, yes. We definitely want accuracy.

Leah: [laughs] We don't want it just flowing out the sides, knocking the people to our left and right.

Nick: Yeah. And I think gargling, I don't think we want aggressive gargling.

Leah: [laughs] That would be so funny if you did a full gargle and just in between two people. [gargles]

Nick: [laughs] And I guess that's the rule, right? I think that's the rule. I think we don't make eye contact. I think we pretend like we're alone. And I think it's important for other people to not try and make eye contact with you. I think we want to, like, have a little bubble of privacy.

Leah: Yeah. I think ideally, as Nick said, we go, like, all the way down, so we have one side where there's nobody ...

Nick: Right.

Leah: ... on one side, and we can kind of—you know, and then we don't spread ourselves out so nobody has space.

Nick: Oh, yeah. Let's not, like, take out all of our toiletry bags and like, spread. Yeah, let's not do that.

Leah: Let's just be in our little bubble. Do a little bit, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.

Nick: Boom.

Leah: Boom, done.

Nick: Okay, so our next question is quote, "Here is a situation that came up at a friend's dinner party the other night. The dinner was set out buffet style, and everyone grabbed a plate and got in line to get their food. The host was serving the main course and placing a serving on everyone's plate. On the buffet was a salad, the main course, and a plate of cookies. A friend in front of me took a portion of the salad and placed one of the cookies on his plate. The host saw this, and as he was serving the main course, reached over to the guest's plate and removed the cookie, putting it back and said, 'Those are for later.' When dessert is on the buffet, is it incorrect to take it along with the rest of the food? If it wasn't meant to be taken, why was it there? Wouldn't you set out dessert later if you didn't want anyone to take it along with the rest of the food? Can you help us clear up this confusion? My friend was embarrassed, as the other guests saw what happened."

Leah: I feel like even if you didn't want them to take the cookies during the thing, that that was a rude thing to do to the guest.

Nick: Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, am I five? No cookies for you? No.

Leah: Yeah, I don't like it.

Nick: What are we doing? And also, you touched my cookie, and then you put the cookie back? Like, why are we doing—now you're touching cookies. No.

Leah: Now everybody's getting a handsy cookie.

Nick: But no, this is—this is bonkers. I mean, this is a bonkers thing. Yes, traditionally dessert does come at the end of the meal. Yes. But at a buffet, the buffet contains components of multiple courses. We don't have an appetizer buffet where we go up just for appetizers and then we sit down, and then we go up again for the main course. No. We are getting both of those courses together. And if dessert is also on this buffet table, then it is completely reasonable to think that oh yes, the dessert is also being served. And so I will take that portion now, too.

Leah: I feel like if you didn't want people to grab it, don't put it out.

Nick: Don't put it out. Right. Because, like, how would you know? How would—you put out cookies on the buffet table. How was I supposed to know? Also, I wouldn't want to run the risk of not taking a cookie, coming back for it later, and now there's no more cookies.

Leah: No cookies. That's exactly it.

Nick: That would be my concern.

Leah: You're running a risk of no cookies.

Nick: Yeah, and I don't live in that world. I mean, cookies are one of my favorite things. I think between brownies and cookies, like, it's a hard call for me, but I think those are, like, my top dessert items.

Leah: What kind of brownies do you like?

Nick: A classic: fudgy, edge piece.

Leah: Oh, you like an edge piece? Hello!

Nick: I'm an edge, yeah. I'm an edge person.

Leah: Okay!

Nick: Yeah. Very dark chocolate. I like salt on the top, because I really like salty brownies. Leah's writing this down. I feel like I might get a Christmas gift that's related, which I'm not upset about.

Leah: No, I just like—you know, I just have a list now that I know you like edge brownies.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, like there are pans, there are brownie pans that actually only make edge pieces.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: They're, like, specially designed to only create edges. It's like a little, like, spirally thing. It's like, how genius. So I like that. And dirty secret—oh, I should even—I don't know.

Leah: Tell us! Tell us, Nick!

Nick: I do enjoy a good—there's a place for it. There's a time and place for it. It's not everywhere.

Leah: Wait, wait. Let me write down what I think you're gonna say, and then ...

Nick: [laughs] I don't think you'll guess it.

Leah: Okay.

Nick: I do enjoy a boxed brownie. I like a Pillsbury. I like a Duncan Hines. I do. There is something about a box brownie for me feels very nostalgic. I can think of my grandmother. And so there is the taste of a Pillsbury box brownie that does kind of taste like Christmas.

Leah: That is not what I wrote down, but I love this for you.

Nick: [laughs] So I mean, I do prefer, like, a Valrhona chocolate brownie with fancy Plugrà butter, but I'll take a Pillsbury.

Leah: Oh, I love it, I love it, I love it!

Nick: I'm very complex. So for this, I mean, this host is so rude!

Leah: The host is so rude. It really hurt my feelings when I read this one. I felt so bad for your friend.

Nick: Yeah. "Those are for later."

Leah: I feel like this is something that would happen to me. And so I really—I mean, I just really felt it all the way. Even if it wasn't something that would happen to me, I would have felt it all the way.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: But I mean, this—I see myself doing this because of what Nick said is fear of no cookie.

Nick: Yeah. No, I would have this fear. I think this host—reading between the lines, this is a host that is missing the forest for the trees. This is a host that is more focused on making their event "perfect," quote-unquote, and forgetting what the point of entertaining is. And I think that disconnect is why this happened. Because if the idea of entertaining was "Oh, I just want to get people together who are important to me in my life. I want them to have a nice time. I want them to get to know each other. I want to—just want to have a nice evening. And I want people to have refreshments. I want to have some fun food. Like, I just want to have that be the vibe." And if that was the spirit, then, like, have cookies. Have cookies first. Have only cookies, whatever you want. Have some cookies. And I think this host was so focused on oh, this needs to be correct that they forgot the point.

Leah: Yeah, I think that's a very good call, Nick. That's what seems to be what it is.

Nick: And so I think they are an inexperienced host. I think that's my read here. And so I hope that they also have a learning experience, which is if you do not want their guests taking cookies, do not put them out at the buffet. Or let them, because they're all adults. And if people want to have a cookie, let them have a cookie.

Leah: Let them!

Nick: Let them. Yeah. Finally, that philosophy makes sense to me.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "I have a group of friends who like to attend storytelling events together in our city. Think The Moth or similar local storytelling series. The tickets are general admission, with doors opening about an hour before the event. To catch up on our lives, our group will usually go to dinner somewhere close to the event beforehand. My typical approach to this type of situation would be to plan enough time to eat at a nearby restaurant, and then arrive at the venue early enough to get fairly good seats. I wouldn't stress about the seats or feel a need to arrive immediately when the venue doors open.

"One of our friends—let's call her Lisa—has a strong preference for the best seats available. She will meet us at dinner, then abruptly dash to the venue when the doors open to drape our jackets across the best seats to reserve them. She will then return to the restaurant to finish eating with the rest of us for 45 minutes or so. This allows us to finish our meal without worrying about snagging good seats. Although I enjoy moseying into the show with five minutes to spare and sitting down in the best seats in the house, I have felt uneasy about my friend's practice of reserving seats and leaving the venue. There's something about this practice that feels like a loophole, and I tend to be a rule follower who sees loopholes as cheating—or maybe rude. Note that in the summer, when we're not wearing an extra layer due to the hot weather, my friend will come prepared with a bag full of clothing items to drape over seats to reserve them. This makes me especially uneasy, as it feels premeditated. Is my friend being rude? Am I complicit for following along with her plan?"

Leah: It's cheating.

Nick: Yeah, it's cheating.

Leah: It's for sure cheating.

Nick: Yeah, because you're leaving the venue. I think that's the key detail.

Leah: Yeah, she runs over, puts coats, and then comes back and just continues on with dinner.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is like people on cruise ships called "chair hogs," where they wake up at 7:00 am, they go to the pool deck, they throw stuff on a pool chair, and then they go back to bed. And then they go to breakfast, and then at 10:00 am, they go to the pool deck and their chair is there. And it's like, that is rude. That is so rude.

Leah: Because imagine if everybody was doing it.

Nick: Well, that is why we have etiquette, because etiquette is the way we all navigate the difference between doing the things that we want to do for ourselves selfishly, and how to live in a world in which everybody else has that same instinct. And etiquette are the rules that we come to some compromise.

Leah: And I understand that you're sort of in a hard position because you're basically gonna have to say to your friend, like, "I can't be complicit in your loophole cheating."

Nick: Mmm.

Leah: So I understand why it's hard to say that because you are making a comment on your friend's behavior when you say that, but you are obviously uncomfortable with it, and for a good reason.

Nick: Yeah. And I don't know how I feel about the bringing the decoy clothing.

Leah: I know that—I mean, that is like a whole other level. Like, now ...

Nick: Well, is it, though? Because, like, already I've left a ven—I've left dinner. I've gone to save seats. I'm going back.

Leah: It's the same thing, but to me it feels like another level just because now there's fake props.

Nick: [laughs] Now there are props. Yes, I brought props.

Leah: It's, like, hot outside and you have like a full pea coat.

Nick: Winter coat. Yeah, so I don't love that. Yeah. No, I think we need to do something differently. I think if you really want good seats or this friend really wants good seats, then she needs to not join you for dinner. You know, I don't love the idea of her going to the venue early and saving 20 seats either, but at least if she's physically there holding six seats, let's say, I feel slightly better about that.

Leah: Or you can just get the seats you get when you get there.

Nick: Right? Yeah. Or we could leave dinner earlier. Like, we could leave dinner 45 minutes to spare and we'll continue hanging out and catching up in our seats at the venue.

Leah: Yeah. I mean, that's what I would do. I would suggest, "Hey, let's just leave a little early. This makes me kind of uncomfortable."

Nick: Yeah. I think actually, I think that's exactly how I would say it.

Leah: And then they're gonna probably push back a little bit.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Oh, what's the big deal?"

Leah: You could say, "Well, the big deal is you're a cheater." [laughs]

Nick: "You're a cheater. You are destroying the fabric of society." Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I guess you could say that. "You are destroying society." Yeah, that's a good explanation.

Leah: Like, you know, Dustin and I, like, Dustin will be like, "I'll just hold the line. You go do the thing." And I think that's totally fair. You can hold the line if there's two of you in a line and one of you wants to go do something. But I can't do it. I feel so bad, like, walking back in front of the whole line, being like, "No, I was here." I just don't go because I know I'm too uncomfortable.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, that's a different thing.

Leah: It's a totally different thing as a me thing, but I'm just saying I know I'm uncomfortable, so I don't wanna sit there. I don't wanna do it.

Nick: Yeah. I mean, this is a finite resource and you are unfairly taking advantage. Yeah. I mean, if the venue was smart, they would do what cruise ships do, or some cruise ships do, where they would actually put a little sign on the seat at a certain time, which is like, "Hey, we noticed you've been gone. If you're still not back by, you know, another 30 minutes, we're gonna give up your chair." And the venue could just, like, police this maybe a little harder.

Leah: Oh, that would be so funny.

Nick: Right?

Leah: I mean, I just think you're allowed to feel uncomfortable about things and be like, "I don't want to participate in this."

Nick: "This feels like taking advantage and I don't want to do that."

Leah: And, like, if I had a friend and I was like a seat holder, and I did it, and my friend was like, "Oh, this makes me feel bad," I'd be like, "Oh, okay. Let's just go early then."

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: Because I like to have the certain seats and you don't like to hold seats, so let's just go early. That way we both—I get my seat, you get to not feel weird about me holding it, and we'll just continue on at the venue.

Nick: Yeah. And the venue opens about an hour in advance, so that's not terrible.

Leah: That's not terrible. Hang out for an hour.

Nick: And I bet this venue you know, probably has some beverages of some sort, a snack, a Junior Mint.

Leah: A Junior Mint. And if not, you could slip a little Junior Mint in.

Leah: Uh—oh, are we allowing outside food and beverage?

Nick: If they don't have snacks available.

Nick: I don't want to be on the record for this.

Leah: Okay, well ...

Nick: This feels dicey.

Leah: This does feel dicey, but I do like a Junior Mint. I want to say I went to a play last week.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: And they had—there seemed to be no rules about bringing your own snacks, but they also had snacks. But I guess this is probably everywhere, but I loved it so much. There were women at the door where if you had snacks, they had scissors and everything ready to open up your package, and then they poured it into a paper cup.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: So there would be no noise making.

Nick: No crinkling.

Leah: No crinkling. And it was just such a delight.

Nick: Isn't that clever? Okay. Yes, if we can't stop people from eating, at least let's make it as quiet as possible.

Leah: Let's just be quiet about it. And it was so fun because we were all there with our little paper cups.

Nick: That's good.

Leah: And our little snacks.

Nick: I mean, the next level to that would be only allowing soft, squishy foods. So we only allow, like, gummies.

Leah: Well, I only bit down during louder songs.

Nick: Oh, that's very conscientious. Yes.

Leah: Like, I can't eat when—you know, you go to eat, and then all of a sudden it's like a quiet monologue.

Nick: I was at the theater recently, and somebody was eating. I mean, I don't know what they were eating. It must have been Pringles, like the crunchiest thing ever invented. And they decided that the time to take a bite was not during the applause break, wasn't when it got loud, it was during the quietest, softest, like, during the death scene.

Leah: No!

Nick: That's when we take the bite. That's when we—that's when I need to satiate my hunger, when somebody is pouring their heart out, very quiet on stage, that is the moment we pick. Yeah.

Leah: No, that's the moment you gum your food. You gum it until it's ...

Nick: That's the moment you do nothing.

Leah: No, but I mean, if it's already in your mouth, like you put it in, and then all of a sudden it gets really quiet.

Nick: No, you don't have to do anything. No, just be still.

Leah: Trust me, you could just gum it quietly, and then it will get moist enough that you can swallow.

Nick: [laughs] No, I don't want to even hear that. I don't want to hear that.

Leah: Nick, I could gum next to you and you wouldn't hear it. Let me check. Next time we go out together, I'll be like, "Did you hear that? I was gumming."

Nick: Okay. I'm gonna make a note on my phone. Next time ...

Leah: Save a note.

Nick: ... I am dining with Leah Bonnema. We are going to test the volume of your gumming.

Leah: Because what happens is you put it in your mouth, and then all of a sudden the music stops.

Nick: No, I know how ...

Leah: You were going in in a loud moment and then it changed. And then the food's in there.

Nick: Uh-huh.

Leah: That's when you gotta gum.

Nick: Uh-huh. Okay. All right. Noted.

Leah: All right, I'm putting it in the calendar. Gumming date.

Nick: [laughs] So our next question is quote, "We are four women aged 75 to 84 who have enjoyed traveling occasionally, but meet regularly to share a martini at one another's homes. Our travels are congenial because we are all willing to acquiesce to the others' preferences for dining and activities, and we particularly enjoy playing canasta, sometimes during the day and sometimes late into the night—a game for four. We have recently planned a six-day trip out of the country, which is coming up in two weeks. Two days ago, we were informed that one individual in our party invited her daughter to join us and actually booked the trip without consulting any of us. She simply quote-unquote 'informed us' in an email that her daughter was coming. This will profoundly impact the dynamics of our trip because we have our system of travel together and it has always worked splendidly. When confronted about our annoyance, this quote-unquote 'friend' said she never thought it would be a problem, and didn't understand why we would be upset."

Leah: I think this speaks to a global issue, which is anytime you do something different and when you're doing something with a group of people, you might not think it's a thing, but always ask first.

Nick: Yes, it's an etiquette crime because we were presumptuous. And anytime you presume you can run into trouble.

Leah: So that's global.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: It doesn't even matter what the subject is, if it's a group ...

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: ... and then you change something that is never something that the group does, it should be brought up to the group.

Nick: Yes. And it did catch my eye that this was a quote-unquote "friend" now. So they got demoted real fast.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: Like, this is a group of people who they enjoy traveling together, playing canasta, and now it's quote-unquote "friend." So this was pretty damaging.

Leah: The other word that is quote-unquoted is "informed."

Nick: Yes. Like, "This is happening now." Yeah, I mean, this is like having a dinner party and somebody just shows up with extra guests and didn't tell you and was like, "It's fine, right?"

Leah: Well, and the dinner party lasts at least a week.

Nick: Right, yes. And they can't get rid of you. Right. And you're gonna change my menu. And our activities, and it's a totally different dynamic. Right.

Leah: Well, and then I assume also because they travel together, they probably also have a certain way they split rooms, and now everybody's gonna have to change how they do everything. So it's ...

Nick: Oh, sure. Yeah. No, it's just—it's not what I signed up for. And so letter-writer, you can be totally annoyed by this. Yes, this is rude.

Leah: And the thing is is it might be totally fine. You just put it out to people first.

Nick: Right. I mean, it's not gonna be fine, but yes, it would be nice to ask for permission. "Hey, my daughter is interested in joining us. What do you think?"

Leah: Well, it might have been okay if it was brought up earlier and they figured it out and talked about it and everybody had their feelings.

Nick: That's true. It's sort of like when you're boarding an airplane and somebody has taken your seat and they're like, "You don't mind, right?" And it's sort of like, oh, now that you're already in my seat, we're not negotiating.

Leah: Now we're not negotiating, yeah.

Nick: If you had asked and you hadn't already taken what's not yours, then, like, oh, I might have been more open to this but, like, no. No, you crossed the boundary and I'm not gonna be accommodating now.

Leah: Mmm!

Nick: Mmm! So what do we do about this? What do we—what do we tell our letter-writer? An etiquette crime has taken place.

Leah: We say it has been brought to—what should we call ourselves?

Nick: Oh, Nick and Leah have weighed in on this and they deemed this rude?

Leah: It has been brought to the board.

Nick: We escalated your case to management. [laughs]

Leah: And they said, "Anytime a situation has changed when it was agreed upon by the group, it is rude."

Nick: So I think the rules have changed. So our letter-writer is not obligated to go along with this trip anymore. If our letter-writer would like to back out, I think that is totally well within her rights, which is, "Hey, I was kind of looking forward to this type of trip. Totally understand if your daughter wants to come. That's not the dynamic and the vibe I was looking for. I'm gonna bow out of this one but, you know, look forward to traveling with y'all in the future."

Leah: It sounds like everybody now wants to bow out.

Nick: Uh, oh, you get that sense?

Leah: "Our annoyance."

Nick: Ah!

Leah: "The whole group."

Nick: Yes. Oh, "We all are annoyed." So yeah, could we all bail? I guess we could all bail.

Leah: What would that be if the rest of us just switched our trip? Ooh!

Nick: I mean, I'm not against that.

Leah: I mean, it's your money, it's your vacation.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah, it is your money and it's your vacation.

Leah: Neither here nor there.

Nick: But ...

Leah: But I wonder if this daughter is not a nice person.

Nick: Oh!

Leah: Because I kind of feel like if it was like a person that everybody loved being around ...

Nick: Mmm. That definitely could be something. Yeah.

Leah: Because if you were like, "Hey, I invited some sunshine to come with us."

Nick: [laughs]

Leah: You'd be like, "I love sunshine." But it is the point that we weren't asked. That's the point.

Nick: Yeah, just being told something. And I think there are a lot of people who just don't like being told what to do.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: So I think that didn't help here.

Leah: It definitely is a dynamic change, regardless of if you like the person or not. That's not important.

Nick: Well, yeah. I mean, we have four women, aged 75 to 84, who like having some martinis, playing some canasta, and that's the vibe that we're doing. And then we have, like, a daughter. And it's sort of like, unless the daughter likes playing canasta—a game of four, which, you know, I don't know how we squeeze an extra person into our canasta game.

Leah: And I mean, you might have, if you'd been asked. I mean, even small things, like a friend recently invited somebody else to go along with a thing that was just gonna be the two of us. And then I didn't want to go anymore.

Nick: Yeah, it's like I signed up for a one-on-one.

Leah: And then I told them, this wasn't the night that I was up for.

Nick: And were they fine?

Leah: They were like, "Oh, I didn't think of it. I'm sorry."

Nick: Yeah. Okay, great. Great response.

Leah: And then we all got what we wanted.

Nick: Right.

Leah: I think what happened here was you had the conversation, and then they refused to be like, "Oh, I didn't think that—I'm sorry, I got excited. I jumped, I should have run it—" what this person should have said was, "Oh, I'm sorry I didn't think of it. My bad."

Nick: "So sorry."

Leah: "I already invited her. Could we do it this one time?" You know what I mean? And that's the conversation.

Nick: Some contrition.

Leah: Just a little bit of something.

Nick: Just a smidge, just a sprinkling, a dusting. Yeah, there was none of that.

Leah: There was none of that.

Nick: Yeah, so often it's never the crime, it's the cover up.

Leah: Like, I've invited people and then been like, "I shouldn't have done that." And then I call the person and I say, "I did this. I wasn't thinking. I should have asked you first. How do you feel about it?"

Nick: Right. Yeah, we didn't get any of that here. So trip is canceled.

Leah: [laughs] Nick is going instead.

Nick: Oh my gosh. I've never played canasta. I think—I mean, it's a rummy-style game, I think. Right? It's a card game.

Leah: I love rummy.

Nick: So I think yeah, I guess I could probably figure that out. Yeah. I like martinis. One—one martini. Two at the most. Three, I'm under the table. Four, I'm under the host.

Leah: [laughs]

Nick: That's an old Dorothy Parker quote.

Leah: Isn't it fantastic?

Nick: So our next question is quote, "What should I do if I'm trying to walk by someone, but you both keep trying to go the same way? Should I freeze or just get past?"

Leah: This is so fun because it happens so much.

Nick: I imagine it happens to you a lot.

Leah: It happens to me all the time. The sidewalk dance, Oh! Oh! Oh!

Nick: No, you go. Oh no, you. Oh, no. Oh. And it is not about width of the area, because this happens in wide areas, this happens in narrow sidewalks, hallways. Like, it doesn't matter what the environment is.

Leah: Oh, yeah. It does not.

Nick: And it would make sense if we all just decide to go to our right if we're in North America or do it on the left side if we're in the UK or Japan. But if we all just pick the same side, that would avoid this.

Leah: Well, I think what happens is you—basically what happens is you walk into—you're almost to a person.

Nick: Yeah. You're on your phone, not paying attention.

Leah: And then you panic. I'll be paying complete attention, and then we just both step the same way. And then you do the, "Oh! Oh!" You know, that whole thing.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And then you both immediately react by stepping the exact opposite way at the same time.

Nick: Yes.

Leah: So it's not even a logical we should just both go to our right, that would be the most—make the most sense. It's just like you're reactive.

Nick: Oops, oh, I'm gonna do the other thing.

Leah: Yeah.

Nick: But you also had that same instinct.

Leah: But you don't wanna stand there because then you feel like you'll be like, "I'll wait for you to move." That's what it feels like. But one of you needs to stop. One of you needs to be stopping.

Nick: You feel like when I freeze, I'm making a judgment?

Leah: No, I feel like if I was to freeze, I would feel like I was being like, "I'll let you do it." I don't want to give that vibe.

Nick: That's what I'm saying.

Leah: Yeah, but I wouldn't feel it if you did it. I would be like, "Oh, this just makes sense."

Nick: Oh, okay. So you don't mind if I freeze, but you wouldn't want to freeze because you feel like that is aggressive?

Leah: Well, I wouldn't want it to come off aggressive. Although if you froze with a smile, you know what I mean? If you froze with that look like this is annoying, then I would think that that was aggressive.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: I've told Nick about this. I apparently have a long-standing war with a woman on our block who has a dog that I don't know where it started, but I'm pretty sure it started with me actually trying to walk around instead of making her decide which way she was going.

Nick: Okay, because she's walking a dog on a leash and, like, the leash is crossing the sidewalk.

Leah: The leash is crossing the sidewalk, and the dog is slightly—I'm unsure of the dog. And then I tried to walk around just to, like, give them space. And then she somehow took that like I was making a comment of some way, and it has unleashed this hatred.

Nick: And how is this manifesting?

Leah: I get nasty looks. Somehow we always end up at the store on the corner at the same time. She said something to me once.

Nick: What did she say?

Leah: She said something about my impatience.

Nick: Oh! Like, "Oh, you can't wait for my dog to stop blocking the sidewalk?"

Leah: Yeah. Meanwhile, I was just trying to give them space and not make them move.

Nick: Okay.

Leah: But I was like, if this is the world you've decided that is happening, then I'm not gonna get in a fight with you about it. But I mean, it's really ...

Nick: Really, I'll show you impatience.

Leah: I was—it's really unbelievable. Yeah, I was literally just giving you all the space you needed to deal with whatever situation is happening with your dog.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: And I didn't want my dogs involved in it, but she's made it—it's this whole story in her head. But now apparently we're at war because I mean, she—I walked into the store at the bottom of the block and she was in there with her dog, and she just went the other—I mean, it's like a whole thing.

Nick: Wow! I think it's good to have a nemesis. I think that makes life interesting.

Leah: Yeah, but I'm not her nemesis. I'm not getting involved. Like, you're having a battle with somebody I'm not. I literally was just letting you live your life.

Nick: Yeah, it is fun that it's one sided.

Leah: But, you know, that's the thing, like, when you try to give people space, so some people just take it so personally.

Nick: Yeah, I think the best approach is lighthearted. "Oh, isn't this silly?" And I think we do the dance a couple times. I mean, it always resolves itself. I mean, I'm not still standing on a sidewalk somewhere. Like, at some point I was free to go.

Leah: Imagine we were doing—we were taping this outside because I was still waiting. I have had people—I hate it when I do a lighthearted laugh, "Ha ha," and then they look at you like, "Please check yourself in somewhere."

Nick: Oh, that's on them. They're just not having a good day. Like we can't—we can't get involved in whatever's happening in their world.

Leah: No, what I'm saying is it's nice if you just do a, "Ah!" And then you just go about your business.

Nick: I like tossing out a "Golly." "Oh, golly."

Leah: Sidewalk dance, you know, anything that's like a silly—here it is again.

Nick: Yeah. Like, "Oh, excuse me." "Oh, no. You go." "Look, after you."

Leah: Oh, I like it. "After you." You could just stop and go "After you."

Nick: I feel like that actually is probably what I'd do. I would like to think my tone is nice and not, like, aggressive like, "After you." But no promises. But we're working on that.

Leah: I'd like you to come to this block and do an "After you" to this lady and see how she takes it.

Nick: "I said after you!"

Leah: "I said after you!" I don't think—the thing is she doesn't want to move faster either. So she doesn't want me to walk around. She doesn't want me to move faster.

Nick: No, she wants you to enjoy her dog walking the sidewalk.

Leah: And her—I mean, just—it's just like a cloud of negativity.

Nick: Some people also just have that vibe, and that's just like their deal.

Leah: [sighs]

Nick: So ...

Leah: Have you seen those memes going around that it's like, "Imagine you're hating me and I'm just over here believing in unicorns." You know what I mean? It's like, I'm not—literally not doing anything.

Nick: I've not seen that meme, but is that the story of your life?

Leah: Yeah, I'm literally not doing anything and you're—she's worked up!

Nick: Yeah. No, sometimes people create narratives. So what should you do if you're trying to walk by someone? I think you want to lightly get out of the way. So a jump out of the scene, maybe? So that's not a freeze, but it's a jump out?

Leah: I think what's gonna happen is that you're—say you both step to the same side.

Nick: Yeah.

Leah: What usually happens is then you both step to the other side. So what you could actually do is do more of a step to the side that you stepped.

Nick: Oh, keep going.

Leah: And then go "After you." I like an "After you."

Nick: Oh, keep going. Don't reverse. Okay, that's the advice. Don't reverse direction.

Leah: Everybody's reversing. We're all panicking and reversing, we're being reactive.

Nick: Right. Don't reverse, keep going. And then give an "After you." "So sorry. After you."

Leah: And let's see it—let's all try it and see how it works if we keep going.

Nick: Hmm. I mean, I think our instinct is not to keep going.

Leah: No, everybody goes the other way.

Nick: But—and do you always have room? Yeah, I mean, even if you're in a narrow hallway or sidewalk, you would have an extra inch or two.

Leah: You would have an inch or two.

Nick: And even just the act of moving in that direction would maybe give the space required to break this logjam.

Leah: Yes.

Nick: Interesting! Okay. All right, listeners, try this. Let us know if this technique works.

Leah: Because you know what it reminds me of is when you're playing—what are we calling it? Paper, rock, scissors?

Nick: Rock, paper, scissors?

Leah: Rock, paper, scissors?

Nick: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Say we both did rock.

Nick: Yeah?

Leah: You need to do rock again because the instinct is to switch.

Nick: I see. Okay. Oh, you're giving away your strategy.

Leah: Well, then, no, then you have to know, because I gave away my strategy, would I actually not do that? But I'm saying the instinct is to change, not to keep going in the same direction.

Nick: There's actually a Japanese game called konpira, which is very fun. It's played in tea houses. I don't know how old it is; I think it's been around for a long time. But it's the idea of there's a box on the table, and you basically have to either tap the box or tap the table in special ways, and you can also take the box. And you kind of go back and forth. And the idea is, like, to try to trick the person into, like, oh, did you take the box or not take the box? So it reminds me of—similar instinct of, like, being very mindful of what direction someone else is going in. So maybe that's what it's about, is just being more aware of people's movements.

Leah: I like all this. We're getting into etiquette psychology. What do people react—what are the most statistically are the ways that people will react?

Nick: So I think we need to play more paper, rock, scissors. Is that what we're calling it?

Leah: What are we calling it? Maybe we should really—it's rock, paper, scissors. I'm gonna ...

Nick: That's what we call it, yes. Rock, paper, scissors.

Leah: I'm gonna throw a spanner in the works and start calling it scissor, paper, rocks.

Nick: Or we can play konpira.

Leah: Let's do a konpira.

Nick: Yeah, great. So you out there, do you have questions for us? Oh yes you do! So send them to us. Send them to our website WereYouRaisedByWolves.com. Or you can leave us a voicemail or send us a text message: (267) CALL-RBW. And we'll see you next time.

Leah: Bye!

Nick: Bye!